Yankee Candle Store

[Stella1952]

..."all they do is cook the wax for hours for it to become smooth."

Dang!! I wish I'd have known it was that easy... ROTFLMAO

[SliverOfWax]

Why on earth should a retail employee need to know how a product is made?

Ridiculous!

Do you think if you go into an ice cream store, the clerk (or manager) knows how the cows were milked and how long it took?

Do you think if you go into a clothing store, the clerk (or manager) knows what kind of thread was used and how much?

Do you think if you go into a furniture store, the clerk (or manager) knows what kind of equipment was used to cut the trees and how the wood became furniture?

Don't be ridiculous!

And even if the clerk in the Yank store did know, why on earth should she tell you?

[Pam W]

Why on earth should a retail employee need to know how a product is made?

Ridiculous!

Do you think if you go into an ice cream store, the clerk (or manager) knows how the cows were milked and how long it took?

Do you think if you go into a clothing store, the clerk (or manager) knows what kind of thread was used and how much?

Do you think if you go into a furniture store, the clerk (or manager) knows what kind of equipment was used to cut the trees and how the wood became furniture?

Don't be ridiculous!

And even if the clerk in the Yank store did know, why on earth should she tell you?

you make a good point. Afterall, the employee is a retail clerk not a candlemaker.

[SliverOfWax]

you make a good point. Afterall, the employee is a retail clerk not a candlemaker.

Don't tempt me. I have a lot more examples.

[Pam W]

Don't tempt me. I have a lot more examples.

of course you do.....I'm totally bored tonite so let it rip........

[CandyinVA]

Why on earth should a retail employee need to know how a product is made?

Ridiculous!

Do you think if you go into an ice cream store, the clerk (or manager) knows how the cows were milked and how long it took?

Do you think if you go into a clothing store, the clerk (or manager) knows what kind of thread was used and how much?

Do you think if you go into a furniture store, the clerk (or manager) knows what kind of equipment was used to cut the trees and how the wood became furniture?

Don't be ridiculous!

And even if the clerk in the Yank store did know, why on earth should she tell you?

I totally agree... I mean yes they should know what kind of wax it is and a few basics. Only because everyone always asks is it soy???? etc. etc. Beyond that she is a cashier not a candlemaker!

[001]

Greenwash is very different then Greenhouse...

Greenwashing (a compound word modelled on "whitewash"), or "green sheen",[1][2] is a form of spin in which green PR or green marketing is deceptively used to promote the perception that a company's policies or products are environmentally friendly....resourced from Wiki

A greenhouse gas (sometimes abbreviated GHG) is a gas in an atmosphere that absorbs and emits radiation within the thermal infrared range. This process is the fundamental cause of the greenhouse effect.[1] ...resourced from Wiki

I don't know where you got confused...Greenwashing goes on all the time, its deceptive and manipulative and purposely used by many vendors including candle vendors who use unfounded scare tactics to sell their products. I personally like soy and use a healthy amount of it in my candles. As far as soy being renewable we all know it takes a lot of electricity, fossil fuel and chemicals to farm, extract and hydrogenate to create soy wax, all of which produce greenhouse gases. As far as using something that has been in the earth for millions of years, if you think about it the earth was a much more pristine environment at that time. There was no man made chemicals or pesticides or garbage dumps, or leaking sewage in the water table, and lets not forget all the medications that get flushed down the toilette that people took and now seeping into the ground water, many of which are estrogen mimics.

What it comes down to is we all need to do our part as much as possible to reduce our carbon footprint and in the end we can only hope that it is enough to prevent the runaway greenhouse effect that is going on right now.

I guess you didn't read what I wrote. I know the definition of greenwashing and greenhouse. I did not greenwash anything... saying soy is a sustainable product so it is better than paraffin is not greenwashing it is fact. When there is no more oil there will be NO MORE PARAFFIN Period. The pristine argument is yet another straw man, and if you really think about it the world was not more pristine then, it was hotter, had weather swings that were far more drastic, weather patterns that were more violent, and was much harsher than we have ever experienced as humans. It is also an irrelevant argument because if we were going to release all the petroleum into the atmosphere it wouldn't eliminate the "man made" chemicals (which are nearly all petro-chemicals)

If you want to reduce your carbon footprint you would use sustainable products... it comes down to one thing "Can this be made again" The answer to paraffin (and other oil based products) is no, the answer with soy (or even palm, coconut, bees, and cottonseed) is yes. It really is that simple.

[spark-me-up]

In the end, I think it comes down to taking pride in your work, whether that's actually making candles or working in a store selling them. I'd be curious to know what was involved in getting any product to the point where it's on a store shelf! Otherwise, wouldn't your job just be a mind numbing drudge? Don't you want to talk to people about what you do & maybe get them a bit excited in the process? Not to mention at least wanting to appear professional?

*sigh* I give up...

[CaftCandles]

It does not surprise me they use Hexanes, and to assume that if there were no petro-chemicals we would not have soy wax is false. It is not the only way to extract the oil it just so happens to be the cheapest way right now..

Well, I disagree! Hexanes are only used to extract the oil from the beans. Other chemicals are used for sedimentary and bleaching agents as well as Hydrogen and Catalysts used to super-hydrogenate the oil (All about Hydrogenation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation). If it is possible to make soywax without the petroleum industry it would cost so much that it would not be an affordable commodity for candle making therefore without petroleum products you would not have soywax!

The link you provided says that most of the world's soy is produced in America and a lot of soy is exported into china. I don't understand your point when it comes to the article. It doesn't even make sense that they would even want to export soy, it takes a lot of water to produce soy (and other crops) and it is expensive in China to properly get water to farming areas.

To my knowledge China does not export soybeans but they do export numerous soy products including soybean oil and soywax and yes to the U.S as well as other countries. My point with the link was simply that the U.S. as a country produces more soybeans than any other countries however there are more soy beans produced and exported from South American countries combined than the U.S. Argentina is the largest exporter of soybean oil in the world and anyone that takes the side of soy always bring up China for some reason. Now think about this, would it be cheaper and more logical to use your own soybean oil or import it from another country for less money. I really think you are not fully aware of how World Trade works and its benefits. Like oil the U.S. imports millions of barrels a year from other countries and that oil is refined and used whereas a large quantity of what we produce here is stored for later use if needed because it's cheaper to do it that way. Leaglly a soywax refiner in the U.S. can state that their wax is U.S. produced wax but the source of the oil is from other countries and technically they are not lying. The bottom line is for someone to stand on the side of soywax and say that they are supporting U.S. farmers is ludicrous just like someone that only fills their car up at U.S. owned gas stations because they want to support U.S. Companies.

Also, when barrel prices are up that high yes, paraffin WILL be affected. Candles are not the only way they use paraffin, they use it to coat food (to feed the "overpopulated" world) and in the production of many other products. The oil prices will go up that high because the supply will be low, and so will paraffin.... supply will be low.

WILL NOT! Refineries charge very little for Slack Wax because to them it is waste. They charge enough to cover storage and transportation as well as a few other things like personel to document and track environmental regulations in the handling of it. If they had to dispose of it then it would affect the price of the products made from oil but not the other way around. Yes paraffin is used to coat food, more specifically produce but don't forget about body creams and lotions, lip balm, lip stick, sauves, numerous medicines, candy and chewing gum, cheese, crayons, etc. Paraffin is used in more products than most people can imagine, infact candle making weither it be with soy or paraffin represents a small percentage of the overall consumption of wax but they recieve most of the hype.

"It could but it's not" YET .

If you think you'll still be alive when this happens then ok, NOT YET! One of the industries which I work is the Power Industry and altough there are many "GREEN" sources or energy they simply are not for the most part geographically or financally feasible to lower the dependancy of fossil fuels.

I don't understand how it is a "Mute" point? I never said it was BETTER in fact I said above it is essentially the same. What I said was that what is released was trapped from the air by a plant probably less than a year ago. I think you're missing the ultimate point here, plants re-grow... they inhale co2, deconstruct it and breath out oxygen. They use the carbon as building blocks to make the plant material then when we burn it it breaks it down again. It is a cycle.... like building a lego robot, taking it apart, putting it back together, taking it apart, putting it back together. Paraffin is like buying a new lego robot each time, destroying it and then purchasing a new one. Eventually you'll have a house full of legos and no way to get them out.

Well if you didn't understand it the first time I will try it again just a little s l o w e r and LOUDER this time. What I said was "This is a mute point! Anything that burns has the potential to emitt dangerious gases into the atmosphere. Soy is not any more safer than paraffin in that aspect. Wick your candle correctly and you will have no emmissions." Do you honestly believe that whatever your soybean plants has taken in, in the last year has anything to do with the emmissions given off while burning? A fire is a fire and in its design it is to consume whatever it is burning. If a candle is wicked correctly there ARE NO EMMISSONS, if it is not, I don't care what kind of wax you are using it is emitting toxins! The fact that grownig plants being good for the environment has never been part of this depate however you really should do a lot more research on the subject, your facts are a little off. As far as your Paraffin / Lego analogy, growing plants and then returning plant matter back to the soil has nothing to do with burning a candle! I've said is several times and will say it again a soy candle gives off the same emmissions as a paraffin wax, bees wax, palm wax or any other type of wax candle IF IT IS NOT WICKED CORRECTLY.

I don't use it to bash anyone, I occasionally burn paraffin candles, it is rare but I do. I don't even put on my label they are soy, and I don't really say anything bad about paraffin. I believe that soy is much more sustainable than paraffin or palm, so I use it. It also burns easier in my experience and will be around when there is no petroleum left, be it 50 years from now or 100. That is the definition of sustainable, you can sustain production.... .

"Sustainability is the capacity to endure. For humans, sustainability is the long-term maintenance of well being, which has environmental, economic, and social dimensions, and encompasses the concept of union, an interdependent relationship and mutual responsible position with all living and non living things on earth." You have stated several times about petroleum running out in 50 to 100 years. That is another scare tactic by the "Green Washers", how do you think oil got in the ground? Aliens? Plant and animal matter decaying and breaking down over time is what it is, most people talk about it as if it were manufactured but in reality it is just as natural as anything else which includes paraffin wax. Crude oil is more volital and takes more time to be created but it is natural none the less and more is being made as we type. Crude oil is not going to run out in the next 50 years and that is based on actual facts not hype from "Tree Huggers" or "Green Washers".

I also take issue with the idea we cannot live without petro-chemicals. We could, we just don't right now. I also think it is INCREDIBLY naive to think that when oil is gone we'll be stuck with candles as light. It doesn't have to be drastic you just have to support sustainable sources- solar, wind, hydro-electric, algae oil, geothermal, the future will be the same if we can switch over to fuel sources produced above the crust like I said. Thanks for proving my point.

Naive is thinking that we can live without petrochemicals. Petroleum and Petrochemicals are an intergral part of everyting you use and consume daily in one way or another and we have become so dependant on it that if we lost it over night for example, I estimate that within the first year 90% of the Free World population would die. This is primarily due to ignorance, people just don't know how to survive without the luxuries of petroleum products that they have become so dependant on. There is no viable "sustainable power source" currently that can can be a major player world wide, there are a lot of great ideas but they just cannot meet the demand and will not saddly for many years to come. Thanks for proving mine!

Things often are not as simple as people make them and require a long chain of events to get to the end product which counteracts their purpose to begain with. One observation I've made is if you visit a store or website of someone that makes beeswax candles they talk bad of Paraffin, Soy and Palm wax (everyone), If you do the same with someone that makes soy candles they talk bad about Paraffin and how expensive beeswax candles are and how they are clearing forest for Palm wax but if you visit some one that makes Paraffin candles the only information you find is instructions and safety tips (I don't mean everyone is doing it, I know there are many that take the high road). Makes you wonder, doesn't it? I have read more fictitious, misinformed and poorly researched claims by so many different candle makers that I am surprised anyone still buys candles anymore.

[CaftCandles]

Sorry! I just remembered something to add.

Have you ever factured in Natural Disasters, Drought, Disease or Infestation into your crop sustatinability? Every time one of those things occour the prices will skyrocket or supplies will be cut to wax production to maintain food supplies and more important uses. Don't forget about the hype put out there about how soy is cleaner and more sustainable than paraffin, that will surely run the prices up. Some soy users and "Green Washers" are cutting their own throat without realizing it.

Ok, I'm done now I think, maybe, I hope!

Edited December 9, 2011 by CaftCandles

[ChandlerWicks]

This is a pic of the "Yankee Christmas Cookie" 11oz I bought to test how it burns. Very little CT or HT. The pic was taken after the 3rd 3 1/2 hour burn. Its ugly, rough, knocked the mushroom off so it doesn't show. Whatever it's made of, I wouldn't buy it again even if I didn't make candles.

[001]

If I didn't have 600 candles to get out by Monday I would write a larger response but here is the short answer

Necessity is the mother of invention, when one is out it leaves a void, entrepreneurs come in and fill the void. Again, naive to think that there is only one way to do something

Paraffin will be affected. You've been fed the line that it is a by-product. The fact is, there is no such thing as a by-product if there is a market for it... and there is. It is a product, not a by-product.

Your China statements are speculation, and when you buy soy it does support US farmers... because US farmers grow soy and a hell of a lot of it... You also don't seem to know how soy works in the US anyway. We subsidize it so much if any other area in the world could grow as much as us, they wouldn't be able to compete with our price on the global market.

Yes, not yet. Green energy is not a pipe dream it is happening now and will only grow.

It would not be a mute point it would be a moot point.... and it isn't. Plants are the "re-breathers" (if you're into diving) If you use paraffin there is nothing to re-breath and to say it is renewable is again, nieve. It would take millions of years to produce more oil, so can you re-produce it... NO. Period. I did not say they have no emissions I said they are essentially the same, the difference is soy is sustainable. Paraffin still is not.

I said when it runs out, either 50, or 100. It will run out, it is a fact. People like you don't understand how important it is to support sustainable products and services so if that were to happen "90%" of the world's population wouldn't die. It is ironically people like you that would make all those people die. If there were more people like me 40 or 50 years ago you wouldn't even consider that.

Also a well wicked candle will still have emissions.... what the science says is they are comparable and there are no demonstrable difference between the emissions produced in a well wicked soy and paraffin candle.

I don't know who you think I am but your assertions are for some other candle company. I make my product with soy, something that is sustainable and can re-grow... I don't tell anyone they are soy unless they ask... what they think about soy is their problem. I don't say it is "all US" because I use cargill products. I don't even mention US grown in fact. The only way I would do that is if I switched over to GB or Eco-Soya. Both "claim" they use US soy but I tell you I believe them... being that US soy is incredibly cheap and obviously readily available. Cargill's system is a global one. They own and commission around the world for all kinds of commodities and externalize their tax burden so it makes it cheaper all around.

Crop disasters happen, and oil rig explosions happen. If you live in fear like you seem to be doing you'd never achieve anything.

We're not going to convince each other. I can re-grow soy. I cannot grow paraffin. Soy is also cheaper and has better burn qualities. Once someone goes big with soy it will all be over. You paraffin users will be at your table saying, no it really is the same, see this report done 10 years ago? I won't have a problem with that... won't affect my business any.

[001]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23039[/ATTACH]This is a pic of the "Yankee Christmas Cookie" 11oz I bought to test how it burns. Very little CT or HT. The pic was taken after the 3rd 3 1/2 hour burn. Its ugly, rough, knocked the mushroom off so it doesn't show. Whatever it's made of, I wouldn't buy it again even if I didn't make candles.

Christmas Cookie is one of my favorite yankee candles. If you burn to fmp it will have a pretty decent throw. The mushroom happens on all the Yankee Candles, Yankee fans like how hot it gets and gives them a "great" 3" melt pool (If you look at their facebook page you'll see the huge shrooms people are excited about) You'll also see those people who are rallying against the new wax because they believe the mottling is the massive amounts of FO they put in their candles... and they get all excited when they "bleed" oils. It is kinda funny when you consider their fragrance load is likely around 4.5-5% which is now kinda under industry standard.

[ChandlerWicks]

It once was one of mine. This one has very little HT at all. I may have candlenose, but I have others burning & I can smell them. (Different rooms) I assumed it might have soy in it because it's similar to the frosting on the soys I'm testing. But not smooth/soft like soy. It's also sparkly. It's definately not a high FO load! Oh well just burn, trash & be done with the ugly little waste.

Edited December 9, 2011 by ChandlerWicks

[001]

Yeah there is no soy in it at all, they use all mottling paraffin though they are moving to their new smooth wax. They are currently using their smooth wax in the perfect pillars, some of the new double wicked tumblers and they have always used it in the Target YC's. I don't know how far they will take the smooth wax but they are defiantly exploring it. I like the look of the mottled paraffin better though. It interesting to watch such a large company explore a new idea like they are.

[EnvyCandles]

Enough soy vs. paraffin....

back to the original idea of this thread... while I would not expect a retail YC employee to know the difference between wax types, I feel they should not be stating things that they do not know to be true... unless, they really do cook the wax for hours to make it smooth!

Some Y candles do burn nicely, with no sooting or smoking. As a consumer, I never even thought twice about how the candles burned, just that they smelled great.

[Beth]

Again, I'll be in the minority, lol. I certainly would expect a store owner to provide enough minimal training relating to the basics of the store's products, so as not to sound like an idiot while selling their products and possible losing sales with incorrect information. I've never had a job where there wasn't some form of training..

[periwinkle]

Again, I'll be in the minority, lol. I certainly would expect a store owner to provide enough minimal training relating to the basics of the store's products, so as not to sound like an idiot while selling their products and possible losing sales with incorrect information. I've never had a job where there wasn't some form of training..

I agree, but during the holidays, retailers are happy for employees with a pulse. Training isn't always as thorough, and there's typically not enough time to worry about it, since a lot of the employees are to be let go in January.

[001]

What makes me wonder is that that 'myth' would have had to be started somewhere. It could be that employee but I doubt it.

I was testing the wax though and it seems to be a single pour and the white wax is gold when it is melted which suggests to me they may be moving into a lower labor parasoy blend...

[blacktieaffair]

Support Farmer Bob or Support Deepwater Horizon... hmmm... para is made from the crude, the gas and oil that Farmer Bob uses to harvest said soy beans and convert said soy oil into wax... is all made possible........ by the same thing is para is made possible by. JMO ( and I do use both ! )

[Pam W]

Support Farmer Bob or Support Deepwater Horizon... hmmm... para is made from the crude, the gas and oil that Farmer Bob uses to harvest said soy beans and convert said soy oil into wax... is all made possible........ by the same thing is para is made possible by. JMO ( and I do use both ! )

Looks like the soy users ARE supporting Deepwater Horizon, huh??

[SliverOfWax]

Support Farmer Bob or Support Deepwater Horizon... hmmm... para is made from the crude, the gas and oil that Farmer Bob uses to harvest said soy beans and convert said soy oil into wax... is all made possible........ by the same thing is para is made possible by. JMO ( and I do use both ! )

Oh, noes! And they're all sitting around at their oil byproduct computers pounding away on their oil byproduct keyboards.

[blacktieaffair]

Well its JMO but both are derived ( devired : obtained from an original source) from both natural products. They are both processed to the end products that we use, so I never have understood the whole "sustainable/natural" arguement that turns ugly and vicious. Pretty much the only untouched natural wax we have, that is untampered with, is if you go to a beehive, and take the wax directly from the bees. Again, JMO and I do use both and love both for different reasons.

[Pam W]

Oh, noes! And they're all sitting around at their oil byproduct computers pounding away on their oil byproduct keyboards.

girl crush ! ! !

[001]

Some people get that it take a step to start a journey and some people don't....

Regardless I emailed them to ask about their new wax and they said it was "a paraffin wax made with a slightly different method that what we traditionally use" They also said there are no plans to move exclusively to the new wax. It makes me wonder what the different "method" is, I was thinking the slush form where they mix, cool, and then "pipe" the wax in at the slush stage, straighten the wick and then done. Doesn't really matter.