Yankee Candle Store

[crazzie]

Went to check out there store. Ask the lady if they were soy candles and she says no. She said there is no difference between soy and parrafin! I said really, I opened a jar and said oh the tops are so rough. She said we have smooth tops over here all they do is cook the wax for hours for it to become smooth. The ladies did not seem very friendly!

[Pam W]

of course she wasn't friendly - you were asking her questions that she had no idea how to answer...lol

[001]

All Yankee store employees should be trained on their waxes. The ones I've encountered have. They don't know much about soy but all the reliable information on soy v paraffin does say that a well wicked candle is essentially the same (from an air pollution point of view) The difference is soy is farmed, paraffin is drilled. It comes down to this, do you want to support farmer bob or Deepwater Horizon?

Edited December 8, 2011 by 001

[ksranch]

It comes down to this, do you want to support farmer bob or Deepwater Horizon?

We are farmers. We use pariffin. It's a matter of preference, and opinion - let's not start that debate yet again.

[Pam W]

I'll support Deepwater Horizon - it's more important that I continue to have access to fuel for my car than burn a candle.

There are countless products made from petro - ever heard of IV tubing??????????

[Stella1952]

do you want to support farmer bob or Deepwater Horizon?

There is very little difference between Big Petroleum and Big Veggie Oil. The recent number Big Soy planted about palm oil is a great example. BTW, soy is separated from the mash by hexane, not by expeller pressing - there is simply too little oil per soybean for that and it's a LOT cheaper. It goes through other processes before being super-hydrogenated. How much energy is expended in that process? So how renewable, natural and green is it REALLY? Since China refines a large part of the world's soybeans, ummm.. Farmer Bob is a marketing greenwash job. I prefer using vegggie waxes an do not use paraffin at all, but my decision is based on facts and personal preferences, not on industry hype.

[Wessex]

My IV tubing is made from locally grown reeds. Natural, sustainable, some leaking, and painful as hell, the needle is HUGE...

[001]

So again, would you rather support farmer bob or deep water horizon. It doesn't matter where it is refined, which, by the way most soy wax is made in the US with US grown soy, GB and EcoSoya are two of the three major manufacturers of soy wax and both exclusively use American soy and process right here on shore. Cargill is the exception.

Personally I prefer farmer bob. In 50 years when oil is 400/barrel and paraffin is $25/lb soy will be around, and from a personal standpoint I take the "radical" ideology that soy comes from and goes to the upper crust. There is energy involved but it can be sustainable energy. I know when I burn a soy candle the things that are released were trapped from the soil and air in the field. When I burn paraffin it is a fossil fuel, and I'm releasing something that was at one point stored deep underground many hundreds of thousands if not millions of years ago. Yes I use petrol-chemicals, plastics, and I have a car but when I can I choose products that are from the upper crust. I am a paper bag kind of guy. FSC certified if I can... then I recycle.

Edited December 8, 2011 by 001

[CaftCandles]

So again, would you rather support farmer bob or deep water horizon.

I support both, they are both very important for world economy, neither more important than the other and for different reasons.

It doesn't matter where it is refined, which, by the way most soy wax is made in the US with US grown soy, GB and EcoSoya are two of the three major manufacturers of soy wax and both exclusively use American soy and process right here on shore. Cargill is the exception.

I think the link below might surprise a few of you about where soybeans are grown and I don't believe anyone besides the manufacturers has proof of where the wax is coming from, only claims. BTW, in this article they mention that to produce soybean oil they do what is called "solvent-extraction with hexanes". Google Hexane and you will see that without petroleum you would not have soywax.

http://www.agricommodityprices.com/soybean.php

Personally I prefer farmer bob. In 50 years when oil is 400/barrel and paraffin is $25/lb soy will be around.

The price of Oil has little effect if any on the price of paraffin. Paraffin or "Slack Wax" is a by-product of crude oil and is sold from Oil Refineries to Wax Refiners. If the Oil Refineries couldn't sell it then they would dispose of it therefore it has little to no effect on prices.

There is energy involved but it can be sustainable energy..

It could be but it's not! Their wax refineries are not powered by sustainable energy but by fossil fuels.

I know when I burn a soy candle the things that are released were trapped from the soil and air in the field. When I burn paraffin it is a fossil fuel, and I'm releasing something that was at one point stored deep underground many hundreds of thousands if not millions of years ago..

This is a mute point! Anything that burns has the potential to emitt dangerious gases into the atmosphere. Soy is not any more safer than paraffin in that aspect. Wick your candle correctly and you will have no emmissions.

Yes I use petrol-chemicals, plastics, and I have a car but when I can I choose products that are from the upper crust. I am a paper bag kind of guy. FSC certified if I can... then I recycle.

Don't support "Deepwater Horizon", Support deforrestation?

001, It's if not my intention to bash you. There are so many people out there that are badly misinformed about a lot of things. Mainstream media and certain Corp. types these days use words like "Sustainable, "Green", "Fossil Fuels", "Clean Fuels", "Bio-Whatever?" to support their causes and make the oposition look bad to get a piece of the market or to knock them off of their throwns. I am pro conservaton and pro environmental but I weigh the cost before I decide which side I want to stand on and currently we cannot elimminate the production of fossil fuels so why bash it. Use it, but use it responsibly, that's all anyone could ask until a viable replacement is found. There are pros and cons for almost everything we do these days which is why most people here will say that your choice of wax is a personal one. Everyone knows that Paraffin wax is derrived from the production of Crude Oil and for some reason there is very limited information on Soywax. IMO I wouldn't classify Soywax as a wax at all even though it is wax like, it's an extreamlly hydrogenated soybean oil and nothing more. Others will dissagree and thats Ok! The point is this debate has been going on since the invention of Soywax and I'm sure it will continue far into the future and both sides have merits and boths sides has issues. One interesting thing I have noticed is that I never see Paraffin users bashing Soy users but Soy users seem compeled to bash Paraffin users. Supporting their cause I suppose.

Edited December 8, 2011 by CaftCandles

[coconut]

Thanks, CaftCandles and Stella, you saved me a lot of typing. Let's not forget all the gallons of petrochemicals that go into producing soybeans in the form of pesticides and fertilizers. In 50 years, I don't think society will have the luxury of burning their food for fuel or candles. The human race is overpopulating this planet and our present lifestyles will not be sustainable without massive amounts of energy. When the oil is gone, people will face a drastic change and burning candles will be for light, not fun, and could very well be back to rushlights dipped in fat.

Remember, crude oil saved the whales.

[001]

Oy, where do I start, I'll start here... It does not surprise me they use Hexanes, and to assume that if there were no petro-chemicals we would not have soy wax is false. It is not the only way to extract the oil it just so happens to be the cheapest way right now. It won't always be.

The link you provided says that most of the world's soy is produced in America and a lot of soy is exported into china. I don't understand your point when it comes to the article. It doesn't even make sense that they would even want to export soy, it takes a lot of water to produce soy (and other crops) and it is expensive in China to properly get water to farming areas.

Coconut you claim I am a green head and then you talk of overpopulation? That is the biggest myth of all. We're not overpopulated and we have the space to fit a lot more people on our little blue ball, we also have enough farm land to produce the food we need.

Also, when barrel prices are up that high yes, paraffin WILL be affected. Candles are not the only way they use paraffin, they use it to coat food (to feed the "overpopulated" world) and in the production of many other products. The oil prices will go up that high because the supply will be low, and so will paraffin.... supply will be low.

"It could but it's not" YET

I don't understand how it is a "Mute" point? I never said it was BETTER in fact I said above it is essentially the same. What I said was that what is released was trapped from the air by a plant probably less than a year ago. I think you're missing the ultimate point here, plants re-grow... they inhale co2, deconstruct it and breath out oxygen. They use the carbon as building blocks to make the plant material then when we burn it it breaks it down again. It is a cycle.... like building a lego robot, taking it apart, putting it back together, taking it apart, putting it back together. Paraffin is like buying a new lego robot each time, destroying it and then purchasing a new one. Eventually you'll have a house full of legos and no way to get them out.

FSC certified would mean I support sustainable forestry, but even a lot of fiber that is not fsc certified are from plots of land where the crop is on a 30-40 year rotation... Not much old growth forest goes into paper production. The wood is far too valuable for paper production.

I don't use it to bash anyone, I occasionally burn paraffin candles, it is rare but I do. I don't even put on my label they are soy, and I don't really say anything bad about paraffin. I believe that soy is much more sustainable than paraffin or palm, so I use it. It also burns easier in my experience and will be around when there is no petroleum left, be it 50 years from now or 100. That is the definition of sustainable, you can sustain production....

I also take issue with the idea we cannot live without petro-chemicals. We could, we just don't right now. I also think it is INCREDIBLY naive to think that when oil is gone we'll be stuck with candles as light. It doesn't have to be drastic you just have to support sustainable sources- solar, wind, hydro-electric, algae oil, geothermal, the future will be the same if we can switch over to fuel sources produced above the crust like I said. Thanks for proving my point.

Edited December 8, 2011 by 001

[Kitn]

They really should teach their employees about the product.

[coconut]

Oy, where do I start, I'll start here... It does not surprise me they use Hexanes, and to assume that if there were no petro-chemicals we would not have soy wax is false. It is not the only way to extract the oil it just so happens to be the cheapest way right now. It won't always be.

The link you provided says that most of the world's soy is produced in America and a lot of soy is exported into china. I don't understand your point when it comes to the article. It doesn't even make sense that they would even want to export soy, it takes a lot of water to produce soy (and other crops) and it is expensive in China to properly get water to farming areas.

Coconut you claim I am a green head and then you talk of overpopulation? That is the biggest myth of all. We're not overpopulated and we have the space to fit a lot more people on our little blue ball, we also have enough farm land to produce the food we need.

Also, when barrel prices are up that high yes, paraffin WILL be affected. Candles are not the only way they use paraffin, they use it to coat food (to feed the "overpopulated" world) and in the production of many other products. The oil prices will go up that high because the supply will be low, and so will paraffin.... supply will be low.

"It could but it's not" YET

I don't understand how it is a "Mute" point? I never said it was BETTER in fact I said above it is essentially the same. What I said was that what is released was trapped from the air by a plant probably less than a year ago. I think you're missing the ultimate point here, plants re-grow... they inhale co2, deconstruct it and breath out oxygen. They use the carbon as building blocks to make the plant material then when we burn it it breaks it down again. It is a cycle.... like building a lego robot, taking it apart, putting it back together, taking it apart, putting it back together. Paraffin is like buying a new lego robot each time, destroying it and then purchasing a new one. Eventually you'll have a house full of legos and no way to get them out.

FSC certified would mean I support sustainable forestry, but even a lot of fiber that is not fsc certified are from plots of land where the crop is on a 30-40 year rotation... Not much old growth forest goes into paper production. The wood is far too valuable for paper production.

I don't use it to bash anyone, I occasionally burn paraffin candles, it is rare but I do. I don't even put on my label they are soy, and I don't really say anything bad about paraffin. I believe that soy is much more sustainable than paraffin or palm, so I use it. It also burns easier in my experience and will be around when there is no petroleum left, be it 50 years from now or 100. That is the definition of sustainable, you can sustain production....

I also take issue with the idea we cannot live without petro-chemicals. We could, we just don't right now. I also think it is INCREDIBLY naive to think that when oil is gone we'll be stuck with candles as light. It doesn't have to be drastic you just have to support sustainable sources- solar, wind, hydro-electric, algae oil, geothermal, the future will be the same if we can switch over to fuel sources produced above the crust like I said. Thanks for proving my point.

I never called you a greenhead. I don't know what that is. I stand by my statement that our planet is overpopulated with humans. Sure this planet can support more people, but it is at the expense of the other species on the planet. Farming destroys habitat for other animals, even organic farming. Some are now extinct and others are on their way. Soy farming is very destructive to the soil, surpassed only by corn and sugar cane farming. Maybe it is generous of me, but I believe other creatures have a right to this planet also. JMO.

[001]

Green heads would be people who do everything considered "green" without question. We don't need another inch of farm land even if we were to populate to 11 billion which is where they believe the population will stabilize. We need to stop feeding it all to cows. Soy and corn farming is destructive to the soil which is where we need sustainable farming practices, rotation and biodiversity are probably the most important. We also need to find a way to more sustainably produce farm animals. That is the most unsustainable farming there is... using 6-10 pounds of grain to produce 1 lb of meat is just crazy in my opinion...

All seven billion people on this earth now can stand within the confines of LA county. 11 billion I believe we'd all be able to happily stand side by side within the confines of New Hampshire. We don't need more space, we don't need to cut down any forests, we don't need anything like that. We need sustainable production. The solutions mentioned above are just part of it. We also move into more shared space (who really needs a 5 acre lawn for themselves?) and work in other solutions like vertical farming, and vertical living (aka city living)

Before I get the question I DO eat meat, I do choose grass fed though when I can.

[coconut]

Green heads would be people who do everything considered "green" without question. We don't need another inch of farm land even if we were to populate to 11 billion which is where they believe the population will stabilize. We need to stop feeding it all to cows. Soy and corn farming is destructive to the soil which is where we need sustainable farming practices, rotation and biodiversity are probably the most important. We also need to find a way to more sustainably produce farm animals. That is the most unsustainable farming there is... using 6-10 pounds of grain to produce 1 lb of meat is just crazy in my opinion...

All seven billion people on this earth now can stand within the confines of LA county. 11 billion I believe we'd all be able to happily stand side by side within the confines of New Hampshire. We don't need more space, we don't need to cut down any forests, we don't need anything like that. We need sustainable production. The solutions mentioned above are just part of it. We also move into more shared space (who really needs a 5 acre lawn for themselves?) and work in other solutions like vertical farming, and vertical living (aka city living)

Before I get the question I DO eat meat, I do choose grass fed though when I can.

Thank you for the explanation of greenheads. I see much sin committed against our planet in the name of "green" and it makes me crazy. "Green" doesn't mean living in a McMansion with solar panels after you tore down the little house that used to be there! All the things you say about farming is also correct. If all those changes were made, the Earth would be better off. Sadly, I don't think it will happen.

And I will happily send the seven billion to LA county. :-) Leaves more room for me here where we have large numbers of grass-fed cows.

[lsbennis]

. When I burn paraffin it is a fossil fuel, and I'm releasing something that was at one point stored deep underground many hundreds of thousands if not millions of years ago.

So are diamonds and rubies and emeralds! Seriously when is the greenwash crap going to end!

[001]

Diamonds, rubies and emeralds are not released into the air, they are an inert material that has no bearing on the climate. Apples to oranges. I guess if you don't believe in science though it would be easy to dismiss the problems greenhouse gasses pose.

[lsbennis]

Diamonds, rubies and emeralds are not released into the air, they are an inert material that has no bearing on the climate. Apples to oranges. I guess if you don't believe in science though it would be easy to dismiss the problems greenhouse gasses pose.

I understand what you are saying and you are certainly entitled to your opinions and just for the record I never said I didn't believe in science. But clearly there are more serious issues contributing to greenhouse gases then what wax you are burning in your candle.

I agree that the Yankme employees should probably have a working knowledge of the wax but I'm sure they are more worried with the bottom line of their store and reaching their projected finanacial goals everyday.

[001]

Well mitigating any source of greenhouse gasses imo is wrong. Saying something is more ok than others because there is less of it is not exactly responsible in the big picture. All problems have many pieces and it is a piece of the puzzle. If I can help chip away at it I will.

It isn't "greenwash crap" and using a straw man argument to support your claim makes it seem like you don't understand the core of the argument which is why I jumped to the conclusion that you don't believe that the problems posed by greenhouse gasses are actually problems.

I just feel that a lot of people fail to look objectively at situations and come to conclusions based on a bias...

[CandleRon]

Went to check out there store. Ask the lady if they were soy candles and she says no. She said there is no difference between soy and parrafin! I said really, I opened a jar and said oh the tops are so rough. She said we have smooth tops over here all they do is cook the wax for hours for it to become smooth. The ladies did not seem very friendly!

I am with you crazzie, people that work in any industry should have a grasp on their job at hand. If you are working to serve the public, you should have at the minimum common knowledge about the products you are working with. Can you imagine going to a restaurant and asking about the dinner menu and the server has no idea about any of the food. Would you still want to eat there?

[ksranch]

Crazzie is nicer than I - I wouldn't have been able to not suggest to a manager that the staff is properly trained. But, then, I'm a *itch!

[periwinkle]

Went to check out there store. Ask the lady if they were soy candles and she says no. She said there is no difference between soy and parrafin! I said really, I opened a jar and said oh the tops are so rough. She said we have smooth tops over here all they do is cook the wax for hours for it to become smooth. The ladies did not seem very friendly!

I wonder if she was a seasonal hire? This time of year, finding knowledgable employees in any store can be difficult.

[Stella1952]

I, too, agree - some employees and plenty of store owners are VERY ignorant of the products they sell. That was rather glaring and had no place in a serious business environment.

[spark-me-up]

..."all they do is cook the wax for hours for it to become smooth."

Edited December 9, 2011 by spark-me-up

[lsbennis]

[quote name='001;938214

It isn't "greenwash crap" and using a straw man argument to support your claim makes it seem like you don't understand the core of the argument which is why I jumped to the conclusion that you don't believe that the problems posed by greenhouse gasses are actually problems.

Greenwash is very different then Greenhouse...

Greenwashing (a compound word modelled on "whitewash")' date=' or "green sheen",[1][2] is a form of spin in which green PR or green marketing is deceptively used to promote the perception that a company's policies or products are environmentally friendly....resourced from Wiki

A greenhouse gas (sometimes abbreviated GHG) is a gas in an atmosphere that absorbs and emits radiation within the thermal infrared range. This process is the fundamental cause of the greenhouse effect.[1] ...resourced from Wiki

I don't know where you got confused...Greenwashing goes on all the time, its deceptive and manipulative and purposely used by many vendors including candle vendors who use unfounded scare tactics to sell their products. I personally like soy and use a healthy amount of it in my candles. As far as soy being renewable we all know it takes a lot of electricity, fossil fuel and chemicals to farm, extract and hydrogenate to create soy wax, all of which produce greenhouse gases. As far as using something that has been in the earth for millions of years, if you think about it the earth was a much more pristine environment at that time. There was no man made chemicals or pesticides or garbage dumps, or leaking sewage in the water table, and lets not forget all the medications that get flushed down the toilette that people took and now seeping into the ground water, many of which are estrogen mimics.

What it comes down to is we all need to do our part as much as possible to reduce our carbon footprint and in the end we can only hope that it is enough to prevent the runaway greenhouse effect that is going on right now.