Problem with castile bars

[Jeana]

I'm still letting the castile I posted in the gallery cure, but now there are oil spots all over the soap. Does this mean I used too much water, or maybe i should increase the lye? I really hope I can fix the problem I like everything else about the soap. The fat % was 6%. Any ideas?

[Kitn]

It sounds like a recipe problem to me. Is your scale accurate? Maybe if you could post the exact recipe you used we could help figure it out.

[LovelyLathers]

Is that the castile you made in mid May? What type of spots? Are they wet spots or DOS spots? Are they just showing up now or have they been there a while? Also it would help to post your recipe. Is it hot and humid where you are, if so it could be weeping glycerin.

[Jeana]

Sorry it took so long to get back to this. Yes this is the one I posted in May. It hasn't been humid. The soaps have actual oil spots you can wipe off. They weren't there until about two weeks ago.

I looked at my recipe again which is:

38 oz of pomace oo

10-14 oz of water - I did 11 oz

4.8 oz of lye.

I did use the lower end of for the water, but it looks like I could have used more lye. This is 7% fat according to the Sage calculator. That is higher than I normally do. I'm not sure why I did this.

My scale is very accurate.

Is there a more successful fat range? Would I have been better doing like 5.5%

Also does anyone do straight oo for liquid soap?

Edited June 23, 2011 by Jeana

[Stella1952]

I see in your earlier post that you scented it with "Sage, Lime, Spearmint, and Ginger"... If that EO or FO and how much?

Even though it hasn't been humid, how warm is it where you are curing your soap?

Edited June 24, 2011 by Stella1952

[Jeana]

I used a total of .75 EOs. It is curing in my shop that is a steady 70 degrees. Very airy, no humidity. The bars are on wire shelves so the air can circulate around the entire bar.

[LuminousBoutique]

I've done 100% oo liquid soap, it was sad sad soap hardly a bit of lather, kinda slimy... I use up to 40%, but anything above that seems to REALLY kill the lather.

[Noodle]

I use up to 40%, but anything above that seems to REALLY kill the lather.

Without a doubt! But some people do not care about lather- particularly customers who are familiar with so much olive oil and have soaped. However, there are not many of these customers, so I do not even do up to 40%. The biggest reason is that I do not want to keep explaining why the soap has such little lather.

[Jeana]

The point of making the OO soap is to have an allergen free bar. In particular coconut oil free. I don't use palm anymore in my recipes, so without palm and coconut what would you use?

What about Rice bran and OO?

I find that the pure OO soap has a good lather if you learn that it works a little differently. When you first wet it and you get that slick feel on your hands, wet your hands again and it turns in to bigger bubbles. You just have to wet it twice to have it bubble like a normal soap.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Jeana

[Stella1952]

If those "oil" spots were droplets, I think you're looking at the humidity makng the glycerin weep - pretty common for this time of year. I have several loaves that are weeping right now waiting to be cut, but it's so humid, even with a fan on them, they are having a tough time staying dry.

I don't use palm anymore in my recipes

If that's for "environmental reasons", you might want to read up on the discussion in other forums here about that. It is no less of an environmental problem than is soy - it's mud-slinging between different vegetable oil producers (big soy vs. big palm) who are trying to draw the uninformed general public into the fray. Can't have palm oil replacing soy - Monsanto, Cargill, ADM & others would be soooo upset!!

[LovelyLathers]

I agree it probably is glycerin weeping. Is it still doing it? Or has it absorbed back in the soap? You made the comment that you wanted an allergen free soap but added eo's, they are allergens. Many people have allergies to the scent or the way they are distilled (made). You could use RBO but everytime I use it above 15% I get ash and the bars seem tacky to me (atleast in my recipe). I use palm and PKO. Have you tried Babassu Oil, pricey but I love it in my soaps @ 5 to 10%. I also like castor with my OO soap for the lather.

[MissMori]

The oil spots are likely to be condensation. Glycerin in the soap attracts water and if it's humid, you can get droplets forming on the bars. It can feel oily when you wipe it off.

Nothing wrong with a 100% olive oil soap, nothing wrong with a 7% lye discount/superfat. I make a 100% olive with a 10% discount and never get condensation or DOS. Sticking it in the oven at 150F after it's in the mold helps to harden it up a bit faster and reduces sliminess a bit.

[Stella1952]

Sticking it in the oven at 150F after it's in the mold helps to harden it up a bit faster and reduces sliminess a bit.

Thanks for that tip, MissMori - I'll have to try that on my next batch of bastile. While I haven't (so far, crossing fingers) had any problem with DOS, I have noticed that the soaps with a high percentage of olive oil tend to get sticky again with glycerin when the humidity rises. Right now, it's very humid and is taking a long time for the soap to dry & harden.

[TallTayl]

I wonder if your Olive Oil was pure... It's not uncommon for many brands of Olive Oil to be adulterated with other oils, like canola, which would help explain the odd feel and behavior of the finished bar.

My true OO soaps are hard as bricks and tend to have far less condensation even at outdoor markets where the humidity (Chicagoland) can be so high you need gills to breathe.

[Jeana]

The soap is still really splotchy looking and tacky feeling when dry. The container of the oil I used says it is pure pomace oo. I will check it again to be sure. I've heard of the oils being mixed before.

I've been using the soap and giving it away to family. Every one says they like it even though it is a little weird feeling before you wet it.

I know soap makers say OO soap doesn't lather but it lathers great even on my dogs. Big bubbles too. I will absolutely make another batch again. I'm going to do some things differently though.

TT I'm jealous of your brick OO soap. How long do you cure yours for?

I would love to try the oven tip but I don't have an oven at my shop. I could drag it home after I make it at the shop. How long do you put it in the oven for?

[TallTayl]

@Jeana: When using OO from Soapers Choice (either Type A or Pomace) it's hard very quickly - almost too hard to cut after a couple of days. To help achieve that I a) soap it kind of hot with smoking hot lye in warm OO and water discount (usually 40-44% lye solution).

The only problems I've had with Castile were when the OO was not purely OO. Even though the label did not specifically indicate it was blended. For instance, Bertolli never firmed up right and turned a rusty color within a month (not just DOS, but whole scale oxidation). It was slimy to the touch even when completely dry and had a slightly funky aroma. I kept some for more than a year and it was still spongy to the touch after all that time. I suspect canola or soy in the adulterated oil.

[soycrazy]

I'm getting the oil spots too with a few batches, but found out the company mislabeled the lye so it was koh lol.

I've had my castile go totally orange and smell from the humidity, I'm afraid to do a castile soap again just because of that.

[MissMori]

You can use ROE (rosemary oleoresin extract) to help prevent dos. Use at 1.2% of weight of other oils. If you are using 100g olive, then you use 1.2g ROE. You could also use tetrasodium EDTA, BHT or sodium citrate at .1% of weight of other oils (100g olive to .1g EDTA, etc.) None of these will prevent dos completely, but they will prolong shelf life of your soap.

There are some claims that EDTA, BHT and sodium citrate are harmful. Use your own judgment.

There are a couple other things you can do... reduce the amount of water you use and oven process your soap. If you are confident with handling lye solutions, I would do a 1:1 ratio of NaOH to water.

One other thing, do not use EVOO. Not only because of the cost, but moreso do to the unsaponifiables.

[Stella1952]

Just for grins, here's a photo of the bastile bars (70% OO) I made recently showing glycerin oozing because of humidity and temp...

Nothing I have made thus far has succumbed to DOS (there's always a first time...) but the oils matter and keeping the soap in a situation with good circulation matters. My OO is pure - no other oils. The rest of the ingredients were pure, purchased from reputable sources. Environmental conditions MATTER despite what some folks would lead one to believe... HOW a soap is dried/cured after making it has a great deal to do with the final outcome. I had to remove soaps I was saving for posterity (made in January, February & March) that were stored in my un-air conditioned bathroom because they were absorbing to much water from the humid environment and becoming sticky and slimy. Had I left them there, I think I could have expected some problems, given the high heat and humid conditions... At some point, common sense has to prevail. If your environment is humid and/or high temp. move the soaps into a better situation; otherwise, don't be surprised if doodoo occurs.

[Stella1952]

Just for grins, here's a photo of the bastile bars (70% OO) I made recently showing glycerin oozing because of humidity and temp...

Nothing I have made thus far has succumbed to DOS (there's always a first time...) but the oils matter and keeping the soap in a situation with good circulation matters. My OO is pure - no other oils. The rest of the ingredients were pure, purchased from reputable sources. Environmental conditions MATTER despite what some folks would lead one to believe... HOW a soap is dried/cured after making it has a great deal to do with the final outcome. I had to remove soaps I was saving for posterity (made in January, February & March) that were stored in my un-air conditioned bathroom because they were absorbing to much water from the humid environment and becoming sticky and slimy. Had I left them there, I think I could have expected some problems, given the high heat and humid conditions... At some point, common sense has to prevail. If your environment is humid and/or high temp. move the soaps into a better situation; otherwise, don't be surprised if doodoo occurs.

... found out the company mislabeled the lye so it was koh...I've had my castile go totally orange and smell from the humidity, I'm afraid to do a castile soap again just because of that.

Now that's just plain silly. If the lye was mislabeled and you had a failure because of that, why in the world would you be afraid to repeat the formula using the RIGHT stuff? I would be anxious to see how things would turn out using the RIGHT stuff, me...