Is the wick really that important to get a good HT?

[Yvelis]

I have managed to get a beautiful soycandle with no soot, no wicktrimming needed and that burns the container clean and not too hot.....but I can't get it to throw much :-(

I use a blend of CB-135 and Xcel 60/40, LX 22 wick and 4% FO (WYW that usually are 1/2 oz pp).

EcoSoya is the only wax available here in Sweden, I blend the two because I like 135 the most but Xcel makes it look better, I get almost no wet spots and almost no frosting.

So I can't change the wax. Have been thinking if I should add BW or change the wick, have set up some testers with CD, ECO and HTP. I have tried them before but always got too much soot, but I will try again, wicking down a bit.

Anything else I can try?

[Stella1952]

Try using 1 oz. pp of FO. You could ven go higher with the waxes you are using, but 1 oz. is pretty standard. Be sure you are using high quality FOs. The wick matters a lot. Try a CD or CDN if available. You did not mention the dimensions of the container you are trying to wick. What is the inside diameter and height of the container? What size CD have you tried? Photos are always helpful...

[chuck_35550]

My opinion would be to consider what fragrance oils will throw best in this wax combination and be prepared to let your candles cure for several weeks to a month. You should try increasing your fo % to 5 and then to 6% and see how that affects your wicking system. After all, what good is a candle that burns perfectly but doesn't fragrance the air? Test different wicks with the increased fo % and be prepared for a less than perfect candle but one that will do its job. HTH

Steve

[Yvelis]

WYW is a concentrated FO that shouldn't be used at more then 3-4%, I have tried regular FO's too at 1 oz pp and it's the same. My container are a tumbler that is just under 3 inch. I'm on my third burn now and are getting a FMP and I _can_ feel the HT. I have cured this candle for 2 weeks, and I gave one away to a tester, maybe I just have candlenose.

I have tried CD 12 and 14 before and now I have set up testers with CD 10 and 12. I will try to get up a photo if I found out how to do it :-)

I sure can try to up the FO, but then I think I have to change FO, WYW is quite expensive since it's so concentrated.

Thanks for the help :-)

[Stella1952]

WYW is quite expensive since it's so concentrated.

Is it a local Swedish product? I could not readily find it when I Googled... Some FO formulations work better with soy-based waxes than do others. The EcoSoya products you are using are usually "friendlier" to a wider range of FOs than their CBA, but that could be part of the issue, too.

[Yvelis]

Here are some images, this is the third burn and almost 2 hours burntime. As you can see there was a bit hangup but it will be gone when my candle is half burned.

[Yvelis]

Is it a local Swedish product? I could not readily find it when I Googled... Some FO formulations work better with soy-based waxes than do others. The EcoSoya products you are using are usually "friendlier" to a wider range of FOs than their CBA, but that could be part of the issue, too.

No, I get it at Bitter Creek http://cart.candlesupply.com/Wick-Your-Wax%E2%84%A2-c-458.html

Even if it's expensive I save a lot on the shipping that way. I used Mango Macadamia Nut in this candle and I just love that scent!!!

Edited May 27, 2011 by Yvelis

[Stella1952]

The burn looks like it's going well... Is that the LX 22? Or the CDs (which size?)?

[Yvelis]

It's the LX 22 and it's because it burns so nice I really don't wanna change anything but it must also have a good HT.

I will wait for my other tester and see what she saids about the HT and also test my other candles with other wicks.

[Stella1952]

I am checking, but so far, I haven't found anything at their site that says to only use 3-4% (I may be overlooking something). I have read their "We Test In Soy" page and they state they use 1 oz. PP for testing in EZ Soy... The fragrance you are using has a "medium scent throw" rating... Me? I'd try using slightly more.

In general, I seldom have seen much advantage in using the concentrated FO products offered by various companies. While the concentrates do seem somewhat stronger, they don't really save me much in terms of money or the amount needed to get the hot throw I am seeking. I can't speak to this particular company's products, but that's been my experience with others.

[Yvelis]

This is what I found about WYW:

"Wick Your Wax fragrance oils are very concentrated! A little goes a long way! The majority of candlemakers that use the WYW regular oils use them at a ratio of between 3-5% (most do well at only 1/2 oz per pound of wax). WYW Top Shelf oils are very unique fragrances, and are of superior quality and extreme concentration. Eight ounces of these oils would be equivalent to 1-2 pounds of most mainstream oils. This line can be used at a ratio of 1-3% (approx. 1/4 oz per pound)."

I wrote to them and asked about Wick Your Wax FO's and they told me so and that is what others use if I read their forum, also on the label on the bottle, but you are maybe right, I will try to use some more, up to 5% or just change to different kinds of FO. To bad it's hard to find FO that can be shipped to Sweden.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Yvelis

[HorseScentS]

This is what I found about WYW:

"Wick Your Wax fragrance oils are very concentrated! A little goes a long way! The majority of candlemakers that use the WYW regular oils use them at a ratio of between 3-5% (most do well at only 1/2 oz per pound of wax). WYW Top Shelf oils are very unique fragrances, and are of superior quality and extreme concentration. Eight ounces of these oils would be equivalent to 1-2 pounds of most mainstream oils. This line can be used at a ratio of 1-3% (approx. 1/4 oz per pound)."

I wrote to them and asked about Wick Your Wax FO's and they told me so and that is what others use if I read their forum, also on the label on the bottle, but you are maybe right, I will try to use some more, up to 5% or just change to different kinds of FO. To bad it's hard to find FO that can be shipped to Sweden.

I love the FOs from www.CandleScience.com, & they're intended to throw in soy. They rate them for strong, medium, or light throw in soy.

[Yvelis]

I love the FOs from www.CandleScience.com, & they're intended to throw in soy. They rate them for strong, medium, or light throw in soy.

But they don't ship to Sweden :-( I have heard lots of good things about their FO's.

[Candybee]

Bitter Creek Candly Supply is the distributor of Wick Your Wax fragrance oils including their Top Shelf category. Lots of folks here use Bitter Creek Oils and at the standard 6% or 1oz per lb wax. Maybe I am blind but I don't see anything on their site that states that any of the WYW FOs, including the Top Shelf oils, are so concentrated you need to use at 3-5%.

5% is the old standard of using FOs for yesterdays waxes. Today's waxes have all been reformulated and there is even a superwax category of which Ecosoya's Excel container blend is one of them.

Excel can hold a whopping 9% FO load or 1 1/2 oz per lb wax. CB135 is their standard container blend designed to hold 6-9% FO load. Even if you combine the two waxes you can safely add up to 9% FO load.

I've worked with CB135 and had the best success with the standard 6% on most FOs. Some worked better at 8% and a very few at the full 9%. Curing time varied from one oil to the next. The majority took 48 hrs to one full week. A few took 2 weeks and a very few 1 full month to cure.

If I were you I would test at a higher FO percentage by starting out at 6% and adjusting higher if needed. Plus keep in mind some FOs simply need longer cure times; eg., cinnamon, apple, grapefruit, bamboo, and sandalwood scents come to mind. Others pop overnite like amber, patchouli, jasmine, honeysuckle, rose, many florals and some berries and vanillas.

I tested and retested LX wicks along with CDs and Zincs. I always got a better hot throw with CDs and Zincs. With the LX series I could only smell the candle if I leaned over it. I did like the burn much better with the LX but for me it was a moot point if the candle gave no hot throw. JMO

Edited May 27, 2011 by Candybee

[ChrisR]

I've used WYW FO's for many years and the only wax I have found I could get away with 3 - 5% is straight paraffin. In my parasoy blend I need to use at least 1 oz./lb for a superior HT. I don't know the waxes you are using, but if they are primarily soy wax you definately will need to use more FO.

[Yvelis]

Thanks for all replies, There are a few WYW FO's that are really strong, I think I will continue with those and stay out of the rest, it will be way to expensive :-(

[EricofAZ]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but FWIW, take your CB 135 and build restaurant candles that have no scent in them. Good tops, great sales, less hassle.

CB135 was a real scent killer for me. I don't know about xcel, haven't really tested it much.

444, 464, and C3 seem to HT pretty well for soy.

[Yvelis]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but FWIW, take your CB 135 and build restaurant candles that have no scent in them. Good tops, great sales, less hassle.

CB135 was a real scent killer for me. I don't know about xcel, haven't really tested it much.

444, 464, and C3 seem to HT pretty well for soy.

EcoSoya are the only ones available here in Sweden, so I can't do much about the vax. Xcel tends to bleed the FO some and I think 135 have better HT so thats why I have more of it in my blend.

[Maggie]

I agree with ChrisR. I used a lot of WYW oils from Doreen before Doneen at BCN started supplying them here in the US. Anyway...every one of them threw great in paraffin...straight paraffin with additives that I blended...and one pour container wax. And I could get away with using less than the standard 1 oz./lb. Citrus Peel and Pine was super strong using 3%.

I would have to check my notes to see IF I tested them in the first soy/soyblend wax that I was using...KY's Perfect Blend.

I am glad that I read this thread because honestly...I forgot how great WYW oils were...lol. The only ones that I tested that I didn't care for the "smell" were Snowberry and Mulled Cider. Couldn't give away the Snowberry and the Mulled Cider literally smelled like crap to me and my testers...lol.

[Yvelis]

I think I will set up a tester with LX 22 and a "regular" oil I know are strong, like Blueberry Muffin and see how it does and one not that strong, a vanilla maybe just to see how they turn out using 1 oz pp.

I really would like it to work with the LX wicks. I have started the testing on the other wicks, maybe I will start a new thread about that testing

Edited May 28, 2011 by Yvelis

[Karen M]

WYW oils are supposed to be highly concentrated, but it depends on the actual fragrance itself, some are way more stronger than

others. I have used WYW fragrances at 4% and up to 7% in J223, and J50 both paraffin blend with great results. Some fragrances are just stronger than others, if you can get FO shipped from BCN then order some of theirs also, like blueberry muffin, strawberry jam, they are both strong and work well in both paraffin and soy.

[Candybee]

J223 and J50 don't need much help with hot throw. They throw like the dickens. But the OP is working with a soy container blend and thats a whole different wax.

I got great throw with my CB135 candles but it took me a couple years working with the wax to learn which oils worked with it but when they do its a great wax.

[EricofAZ]

In response to the original question, I'm not sure that a different wick is what makes HT work.

I have to qualify that statement.

If you have the wrong wick, too deep of a pool, or not enough of a pool, or mushrooming, expect the throw to be a disappointment.

If you have a wick that generates little to no shroom/capping and the pool is barely wall to wall and not too deep, you probably have a winner and changing brands is likely not going to enhance the throw.

IMHO, the HT is related to the pool diameter, glass choice (airflow), wax choice and FO choice/percentage.

[Candybee]

You are right about the wrong wick effecting the burn of the candle.

Getting the right wick includes the right wick series. Not all series work well in all candles as each series is design specific. Its possible to use any wick and get a candle to burn. But even if you have the right size won't guarantee you get a great burn.

Finding the right wick type is just the first step. The next is fine tuning your wick testing by getting the right size for your candle. So both factor into your candle burn which in turn effects the scent throw among other factors you mention; melt pool and mushrooming, etc.

It helped me a lot to read up on wicks, how they worked, and what makes a good burn, through sites like Wicks Unlimited, Inc. www.wicksunlimited.com for some very helpful and insightful wick burn science information.

Here is a link that describes the characteristics of a common burn issues and why its important to select the proper wick type: http://www.wicksunlimited.com/burn_issues.php

Here's one called Burn Combustion 101: http://www.wicksunlimited.com/combustion_drawings.php

Edited May 29, 2011 by Candybee

[Karen M]

J223 and J50 don't need much help with hot throw. They throw like the dickens. But the OP is working with a soy container blend and thats a whole different wax.

That is why I suggested some of BCN's oils they throw well in paraffin and soy

, if you can get FO shipped from BCN then order some of theirs also, like blueberry muffin, strawberry jam, they are both strong and work well in both paraffin and soy.