Eco Soy CB advanced

[crazzie]

If you let it cure for 2-3 weeks it may get better. But I'm personally not a fan of Eco-Soya Adv. Not sure if that's what you are using.

Yes that is what I used. Thinking my next try will be C-3

[jackbenimble]

Yes that is what I used. Thinking my next try will be C-3

C-3 is a good wax. You should have some good results from it. I'd let it cure a week at least before testing.

[rjdaines]

Have you tried GB 464? It's not perfect by any means and it seems that one still have to pick and choose FO that work well with it but is it a darn sight better than CB-A.

[Candybee]

Have you tried GB 464? It's not perfect by any means and it seems that one still have to pick and choose FO that work well with it but is it a darn sight better than CB-A.

Cheaper as well as more readily available too. More suppliers carry it than the CBA at a better price. Haven't used it. Never got around to it as I eventually switched from using soy altogether about 2 yrs ago.

[crazzie]

Cheaper as well as more readily available too. More suppliers carry it than the CBA at a better price. Haven't used it. Never got around to it as I eventually switched from using soy altogether about 2 yrs ago.

Candybee do you use par wax then. I was using that and it seemed they would not sell. I had so many people ask for soy, thats why I am

switching over.

[crazzie]

Have you tried GB 464? It's not perfect by any means and it seems that one still have to pick and choose FO that work well with it but is it a darn sight better than CB-A.

Yes, I have tried the 464. Eco-Soya Adv. is the second try. Just not sure what Im going to do.

I have a Eco buring now with CD 10 wick will have to see what happens.

[Candybee]

Candybee do you use par wax then. I was using that and it seemed they would not sell. I had so many people ask for soy, thats why I am

switching over.

I did eventually switch to a parasoy blend that I custom blended on my own that I used for a few years. Didn't have any trouble selling it. But I never really cozied up to soy. Maybe because I started out with paraffin and really missed working with it.

But you're right. Customers want a 'natural' wax so I finally settled on palm. To me it has the best of what I liked with both soy and paraffin; great H&C throw with just about any FO you throw at it; colors well, doesn't frost, no wet spots, burns "clean" (exactly like soy), and its a veggie wax like soy so customers are already sold on it.

Sometimes I miss soy. For example; bakery scents just work the best with soy and soy burns longer than palm. But you can't have everything. Working with any wax is sort of like give and take. Each has their own set of pros and cons.

[crazzie]

C-3 is a good wax. You should have some good results from it. I'd let it cure a week at least before testing.

Where do you purchase C-3 from? BCN does not carry it.

[jackbenimble]

Where do you purchase C-3 from? BCN does not carry it.

Lonestar and Candle Science carry it as well as others but they are closest to me.

[crazzie]

I think I may have it. Using the Eco Soy Adv with a wick of 60-44-15C Blueberry Muffin.

I can smell it. Let it cure for about 1-1/2 weeks! Im into about 1 hour of the testing.

[rjdaines]

YaY, I was burning 464 with Blueberry Muffin (Peaks) earlier and I could smell that too.

[cedar_lea]

Has anyone experimented with blending C-3 and Eco Soy? Eco Soy is supposed to have really low frosting so I was wondering if it would help my C-3, but I don't want to sacrifice the scent versitility C-3 is giving me.

[Stella1952]

EcoSoya is the brand name for several very different soy waxes made by NGI. If you are talking about their CBA or Excel, you might try searching (use the Google site search tool). In the case of CBA, despite how lovely it is, WHY would I diminish the hot throw of C3 by using it? In the case of Excel, it has better HT and is a pretty wax, but it still frosts. C3 has a great HT and is a pretty wax if poured/handled properly. Mixing the two would yield a product that has decent hot throw and still has frosting issues. EcoSoya CB135 is a nice wax with plenty of frosting issues, but it has nice HT. Soy wax of any kind is challenging with which to work.

Understand that one person's results may not be easily reproducible by others because technique is a huge factor with frosting. If you are bound and determined to mix waxes, get samples and try this yourself. Many people solve this problem by adding paraffin. If you do not want to use paraffin, consider adding some *botanical oils* in varying amounts until you get the results you are seeking. Adding USA helps issues with C3. My best advice is to learn how to pour C3 to minimize its frosting issues. There is no *perfect* soy wax.

[cedar_lea]

That's what I figured might be the case & why I hadn't tried . . I haven't had much luck with Peaks USA so far, but maybe I'll look into getting another & I'm still wanting to try some different dyes and see if that helps. I had just read throught the "bloom resistant" description of Ecosoy a few times with envy and wondered if it was worth trying. Thanks for responding Stella.

[Stella1952]

cedar_lea, do you have any photos of the problems you are having with your C3 candles? If so, why not start a new thread about your C3 difficulties and see if some of the folks using it out there can help... a picture's worth a thousand words...

[crazzie]

stella1952, is C3 as smooth as Eco Soya CB advanced. I noticed a big difference when I tested 464, the Eco was so smooth and white, even when it burns. I just might have to order some C3 to test.

[Stella1952]

I just might have to order some C3 to test.

Good idea. And the answer, IMHO, is no. CBA is the smoothest, prettiest soy-based wax out there.It just doesn't throw worth a crap.

[njcandle]

If you work with the right scent, the HT is quite good.. My whole bedroom smells like blueberry cheesecake and the bathroom like vanilla Been testing for the past several weeks with CBA and I wont be switching.. It is the best looking wax around

[Candleburgh]

Little late in reply, but I LOVE C3. Excellent scent through if you are looking for it. I used Early American's Caribbean Escape scent 1oz to a half-3/4lb C3 and the scent filled a floor of my house. I'm all about the smells though as a hobbyist. I did dab in less than a tsp of Vybar also. No oil spots at all. Only complaint, is the glass adhesion. There were parts of the container where the wax did not adhere well. I think it may have had something to do with with either the Vybar or my pour temp.

[Stella1952]

Been testing for the past several weeks with CBA and I wont be switching.. It is the best looking wax around

Yes it is. No one who has ever seen or used it can dispute that point. The problem is that it is not compatible with MANY FOs and doesn't throw well with ones that are not designed around its particular chemistry. I do not want to use a wax that is that limited in the number of FOs it will accept, no matter HOW pretty it is! As I stated before, if I were making unscented candles, I would choose CBA and not look back, but it is too finicky for general FO usage. Once you have tested for several months trying FOs from different suppliers, you will understand.

I did dab in less than a tsp of Vybar also. No oil spots at all. Only complaint, is the glass adhesion. There were parts of the container where the wax did not adhere well. I think it may have had something to do with with either the Vybar or my pour temp.

"Oil spots"? Are you talking about droplets on the surface of the candle (syneresis) or "wet spots" (areas of non-adhesion to the container)?

Vybar is not used with vegetable waxes. It's for paraffin waxes.

Glass and wax expand and contract at different rates. "Wet spots" are caused by unclean glassware (new glass often has a film of manufacturing residue on it which should be removed by washing the glassware in HOT water with original Dawn detergent or Parson's Sudsy ammonia, both of which are great grease-cutters, rinsing in HOT water, then placing upside down to air dry. Store upside-down until used.), temperature changes during storage and usage (warm to cool), pouring into a container that is too cool, and cooling too quickly after pouring. Wet spots are a fact of life and have nearly zero to do with the quality of the candle. They are a cosmetic issue that even huge candle manufacturers cannot completely eliminate because the storage and usage conditions after the candles leave the manufacturer cannot be controlled. Check out the candle displays at stores to see how this affects many container candles.

Syneresis, on the other hand, is caused by using excessive amounts of FO (or other oils) and environmental conditions (too cool or too warm). It usually resolves itself withing 24-48 hours depending on the temperature. It happens frequently when candles are moved from a warmer location to a cooler one or vice versa. Seasonal temperature changes often cause this to occur. A particular wax can only hold so much oil. When the temperature causes the wax to expand or contract suddenly, it can literally squeeze the oil from the wax, seen as droplets on the surface. Unless the oil is pooled on top of the candle, small droplets are often reabsorbed in a few days or when the wax has returned to a more optimal temperature. Try using 1 oz. PP for C3... you are using almost twice that FO load. Simply because a wax can hold more FO is not a good reason to use more. It's expensive and causes burn problems. For soy waxes, one wants to use the LEAST amount of FO needed to have a pleasing HT.

If you are having appearance difficulties (frosting, cauliflowering, rough tops, etc.), try using USA to help stabilize the wax. 1/2 - 1 Tablespoonful per pound works very well. Pay close attention to pouring & cooling techniques for best results with C3. HTH

[crazzie]

I just received my C-3. Poured my test candles last night. Followed it to the tea of instructions! How long should I let this one cure before I can smell the results?

[Stella1952]

*sigh*

One mo' time:

NatureWax recommends allowing AT LEAST 48 hours for the wax to cure before testing. Some fragrances take a lot longer than others to fully develop in the wax. I wait a minimum of 5 days (usually 7) before I test for scent throw. For wicking, so long as you are not too worried about the HT, you can do wick testing after 48 hours.

Followed it to the tea of instructions

I don't know what that means because different people use different procedures to get great results from C3. Some pour it hot; some pour it cold. What wick/size did you use in what diameter container? How much FO did you use per pound?

I hope you got nice adhesion, a baby-butt smooth top and great cold throw, 'cause it does all of that. Before you start testing, weigh an empty container, tare and then weigh your candle to check the NET weight of the unlit candle. At the start of each burn, do the same thing so that you can compute how much wax the wick is burning per hour (RoC).

I also hope you will post about C3 in a new thread 'cause this one is titled "EcoSoy (sic) CB advanced." No one would ever think of looking for information about NatureWax C3 in a thread about EcoSoya CBA...

[lmc]

I agree...CBA produces beautiful candles. I get a nice HT from it but I add FO at 140 and pour at 115 and let cure for a week-9% FO load.

[RWV]

Thanks for that info Stella--I notice some of my candles, after sitting for months, will have a small bit of fo pooled around the wick--that explains it! You mentioned earlier in the thread about using 1oz. of scent per pound of wax with the C-3, which is what the manufacturer states is the average fragrance load. Have you ever tested with higher percentages to see if the C-3 holds more? Just curious because I'm currently testing the C-3 with paraffin.

Yes it is. No one who has ever seen or used it can dispute that point. The problem is that it is not compatible with MANY FOs and doesn't throw well with ones that are not designed around its particular chemistry. I do not want to use a wax that is that limited in the number of FOs it will accept, no matter HOW pretty it is! As I stated before, if I were making unscented candles, I would choose CBA and not look back, but it is too finicky for general FO usage. Once you have tested for several months trying FOs from different suppliers, you will understand.

"Oil spots"? Are you talking about droplets on the surface of the candle (syneresis) or "wet spots" (areas of non-adhesion to the container)?

Vybar is not used with vegetable waxes. It's for paraffin waxes.

Glass and wax expand and contract at different rates. "Wet spots" are caused by unclean glassware (new glass often has a film of manufacturing residue on it which should be removed by washing the glassware in HOT water with original Dawn detergent or Parson's Sudsy ammonia, both of which are great grease-cutters, rinsing in HOT water, then placing upside down to air dry. Store upside-down until used.), temperature changes during storage and usage (warm to cool), pouring into a container that is too cool, and cooling too quickly after pouring. Wet spots are a fact of life and have nearly zero to do with the quality of the candle. They are a cosmetic issue that even huge candle manufacturers cannot completely eliminate because the storage and usage conditions after the candles leave the manufacturer cannot be controlled. Check out the candle displays at stores to see how this affects many container candles.

Syneresis, on the other hand, is caused by using excessive amounts of FO (or other oils) and environmental conditions (too cool or too warm). It usually resolves itself withing 24-48 hours depending on the temperature. It happens frequently when candles are moved from a warmer location to a cooler one or vice versa. Seasonal temperature changes often cause this to occur. A particular wax can only hold so much oil. When the temperature causes the wax to expand or contract suddenly, it can literally squeeze the oil from the wax, seen as droplets on the surface. Unless the oil is pooled on top of the candle, small droplets are often reabsorbed in a few days or when the wax has returned to a more optimal temperature. Try using 1 oz. PP for C3... you are using almost twice that FO load. Simply because a wax can hold more FO is not a good reason to use more. It's expensive and causes burn problems. For soy waxes, one wants to use the LEAST amount of FO needed to have a pleasing HT.

If you are having appearance difficulties (frosting, cauliflowering, rough tops, etc.), try using USA to help stabilize the wax. 1/2 - 1 Tablespoonful per pound works very well. Pay close attention to pouring & cooling techniques for best results with C3. HTH

[Stella1952]

Have you ever tested with higher percentages to see if the C-3 holds more?

Sure, but I do not want to use more than that. More FO means more possibility for syneresis, frosting, burn issues, frosting and... did I mention frosting? Frankly, I do not understand the facination with using more FO than is necessary. I'd personally like to use LESS. It is the single most costly ingredient in our candles (unless you count the container cost) and one of the worst offenders about causing appearance and burn problems. More is not better!!

testing the C-3 with paraffin

Can't help you there. I have never used paraffin. I make veggie wax candles exclusively.