best wick for 464

[azaria567]

Currently I am using eco wicks in my containers. I really want them to work bc they are primed in vegitable wax not parrafin. But When I find the right wick sixe to get the best mp the flame is still very tall. If I wick down then it is too small and doesn't burn to the edge.

I am try to find wicks for a 3in diameter 10oz tumbler and a 12oz libbey bean pot jar that is 3in diameter at its widest point.

Is there something I am missing about Eco? Or should I just try to find a different?

the jar pictured is an Eco 10 and the tumbler is Eco 12.

[Stella1952]

I really want them to work bc they are primed in vegitable wax not parrafin.

Wicks come in a choice of high temp veggie wax, low temp veggie wax and high & low temp paraffin. If the supplier you are using doesn't offer this selection, you can always shop another supplier.

But When I find the right wick sixe to get the best mp the flame is still very tall. If I wick down then it is too small and doesn't burn to the edge.

How are you testing your candles? It is not uncommon for a properly wicked container to take one or two test burns to reach FMP. Are you burning your test candles all the way to the end or stopping the testing prematurely?

I don't see anything wrong with the wick height in the photos. How long had the candles in the pictures been burning?

I am try to find wicks for a 3in diameter 10oz tumbler and a 12oz libbey bean pot jar that is 3in diameter at its widest point.

I'd suggest trying CD 12-14 for that diameter container.

[azaria567]

Thank you so much for the reponse. The pictures are from the second burn. The first burn didn't seem too bad, the flames were slightly large but the mp reached the edge at about 3 hours into the burn (3 in diameter candle, so that sounds right). after I took these pictures I trimmed the wick a litlle shorter and tried again and now they seem to be perfect, even better then the first burn. the candles in the first photos burned for about 4 hours for the first burn. Then after they cooled I lit them again and took photos immediatly. After I posted the question, I realized I should try to trim the wick. I then trimmed the wick and let them burn.

So to make sure I am understanding your reply correctly and to post a specific question I am having right now, Is it normal for the flame to be a little bit larger or smaller until it "settles in"?

Here are the new photos after I trimmed the wick. These have been burning for about an hour. The tumbler still has some wax around the edge maybe I will try to wick up.

[Stella1952]

The tumbler still has some wax around the edge maybe I will try to wick up.

Burn the candle all the way to the end in 3 hour increments. Trim the wick before every burn to 1/4". It is typical that there may be a little hangup during the first half of the container, but as things heat up during the last half of the burn, small amounts of hangup nearly always "catch up." You may end up needing to wick up, but do not assume that until the candle has burned all the way to the end.

[azaria567]

thank you stella for your help! I really appreciated it!

[EricofAZ]

If I might speculate, part of the problem might be the priming. Unlikely though because priming tends to be a non issue after the first burn.

I buy raw wick in spools. www.candlewic.com has a good selection of ECO's on spools for a good price. I prime them in the actual melt pool of the presto pot and they work fine.

wicks unlimited has a web page about priming. Most priming is outer shell only with the center still dry cotton or whatever. Might as well have an unprimed wick in my opinion because it takes a burn to get the core saturated.

I soak the raw wick and sometimes squeeze out the air bubbles in the melt pool with a tool. That tends to make the first burn less different from subsequent burns.

Edited May 12, 2011 by EricofAZ

[Stella1952]

I have always used preprimed, pretabbed wicks coated with high temp veggie wax. The priming affects the burn not much at all, as far as I can tell; rather it affects the rigidity of the wick in the soft wax. The higher temp helps keep the wick more upright and less likely to bend or collapse as it burns.

I have used unprimed square braid with good success in some candles. I don't see myself spending any time reinventing the wheel of wick priming. Whatever the manufacturers do is good enough for me. That the priming wax does not penetrate to the center of the wick doesn't seem to be a huge issue. What is more of an issue is wick treatment. Treatments need to soak into the wick to the core for best results. One should not confuse these two processes.

Scroll down to the section on the purpose of wick treatment for more information:

http://www.heinzverhaegh.com/id79.html

HTH

[azaria567]

Ok, I really need to vent. I am using a 3 in straight side tumbler with GW464, 6% fragrance load and 1-2 dye chips per pound.

I have tried Eco and the flames(no matter what sixe wick) were very jumpy and inconsistant.

CD Gorgeous flame but I cannot get a nice melt pool. Lots of hang up or the next size up would burn itself out.

LX the flame isnt as pretty, mushrooming a bit, melt pool is close but still not quite there.

HTP nice flame but again the melt pool isnt reaching the sides.

Any advice is welcome! I am so frustrated.

Oh and I am burning them in 3 hour increments.

[jackbenimble]

You may need to double wick.

[rjdaines]

I am using 3 and 4 inch containers with 464 @ 6% - 8% (tho I am having hot throw issues) and use a CD-18 in the 3" (rounded-side) and double CD-5s in the 4" apothecary (straight sides). The 3" does get a full melt pool but has some wax residue the sides and will clean up fairly well at the end. The double wicked container does very well. I don't think soy will ever leave sides as clean as paraffin but i could (and am) usually wrong. I have not been able to single wick the 4" with LX, HTP, ECO or CD wicks. Going too large a wick just seems to lead to mushrooming.

[Stella1952]

I don't think soy will ever leave sides as clean as paraffin

So, too, milk will never leave the glass as clean as water. It is more viscous with more solid matter. It's basic properties are different.

What is your goal? To make candles which burn leaving clean sides, or to make candles which burn safely and have great appearance and scent throw? Is it to make vegetable wax candles that perform the same as paraffin candles? What is your overall goal for your product?

First, you have to have a clear idea of what it is you are trying to achieve with your candles. Sometimes people lose sight of their overall goals when they obsess on one particular aspect.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Stella1952

[rjdaines]

As we are seeing in other active threads right now, the use of soy as a "greener" and more sustainable product is based (in part) on myth and false claims and the demand for soy candles is partly driven by the villainizing of paraffin. I would like to use soy in my candles but only if it works to my expectations of how a candle should look and perform. My vision is to have a platform that provides the greatest pleasure to the greatest number of people, whether that is just me or dozens. The measure of pleasure is also not an easy metric as it varies from person to person, however, some simple ones would include a reasonable range of FO that throw well, clean burning, and a visually appealing container (beginning, middle and end). Less than that is just making excuses for a product that really isn't and "greener" than paraffin. Let's not even mention the carbon pollution issue, who know, there may even be a carbon tax on candles and California will probably ban them...

[Stella1952]

A candlemaker's carbon footprint makes Bigfoot's look tiny.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Stella1952

[azaria567]

Thank you so much you guys!

Jack I think I will try to double wick. I was really not wanting to double wick but I am seeing that it would look better and I think I will get better results. So I really have no idea why I was to resistant to a double wick.

Stella and rj, a little bit of residue wouldn't bother me too much. On all of these tumblers I was having about a 1/4" -1/2" of wax on the sides and the melt pool kept getting smaller the longer it burned.

But I did a test burn yesterday of a double wick and it looks much better. The wicks were a bit big so I will try again but so far I like what I am seeing.

Now I just need to figure out my jar. I don't have enough room to double wick that one. ; p

[Stella1952]

CD Gorgeous flame but I cannot get a nice melt pool. Lots of hang up or the next size up would burn itself out.

Azaria, how long are you testing the wicks per session? Are you burning the containers all the way to the end?

It is normal and preferable that a 3" container does not achieve FMP on the first test burn of 3 hours. It's even okay to experience a small amount ofhangup on Test burn #2, but by Test Burn #3, you should see a FMP. What size CD wick did you try? Photos would be helpful.

I wick 3" containers often with no issues whatsoever. There is no reason to have to doublewick.

[azaria567]

So I ordered a Sample pack of every CD size available and Finally found the right size! Yay! It's amazing how 1 size up or down makes a drastic difference. Sorry this image isn't the best, its from my phone.

This is a 3in candle with a CD 16 and it has been burning for 3 hours. GW464, 6% FO.

Edited June 8, 2011 by azaria567

[rjdaines]

I am testing a 3" Libbey Status jar with 464, slight orange color, Peaks Orange Blossom at 6% with a CD-16 wick and I don't get nearly the depth if melt pool like that. After two 3-hour burns I still have wax on the sides. Interesting.

Possible reasons: thickness of glass (heat sink), FO, or color?

Thanks for sharing.

[Stella1952]

This is a 3in candle with a CD 16 and it has been burning for 3 hours. GW464, 6% FO

If that's the first 3 hour burn, the candle is very likely overwicked. It's normal for 3" candles to not achieve FMP on the first or even second test burn. Keep burning it all the way to the end at 3 hour intervals. Pay particular attention to how hot the container becomes. Is there any possibility that you mistakenly used a larger wick? The 'shroom on the wick may be contributing to excessive heat. Did you trim the wick to 1/4" before the test burn?

After two 3-hour burns I still have wax on the sides.

That's pretty normal. Keep on testing and see how things develop. This may work out very well for you.

I personally use a CDN 14 in 3" containers, but I don't use the same wax (NatureWax C3 with additives).

[Jeana]

I really like Performa wicks in this wax. They do have a tendency to shroom but they have other stuff to offer that makes up for it. They produce a consistent flame most of the time, I get full melt pools on 3" containers, and they throw very well. I have tried MANY different wicks but I now stick with these.

Oh, and the MP rarely gets too deep even when the candle is wicked too high.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Jeana