HorseScentS Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 As a candle consumer, I'd rather buy from a chandler with Stella's attitude because I'd feel safer. & as someone learning to make candles, I don't want to take any risks with anybody's safety or with liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 There are no haters here! I just don't want the liability issues with reusing containers, especially in todays litigious society. I reuse the heck out of my tester jars. Cheers,Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comfortscents Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Oh please let's just stop...lol. Bliss, you're a sweetie. I can take the criticism and probably will never see a candle in a coffee mug posted in the candle gallery. I've either been incredibly lucky in the last ten years or reasonably smart and really cautious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnna Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 ANY glass can break even the glass tested for candles. Example: Customer's mom had a large Yankee burning on her dining room table sitting on top of a heirloom tablecloth. After several hours she went in to blow it out and discovered it had cracked and the colored wax had ruined the tablecloth. I am sure Yankee uses approved glass. I personally carry liability insurance to protect me as much as possible in the event of a lawsuit. As for the filling of containers. My customers love my custom filled tea cups and the like. I even refill personal containers. It is true I do not test them for proper wicking and this fact is told to the customer. They are told I use my best judgement in regard to proper wick size for the width of the opening. I had a new lady ask if I refilled and I gave her the per ounce quote price and she said she had "some containers" she would drop off. She brought in almost 30 containers.. all shapes and sizes many of them other candle companies..When she picked them up she is given a paper with proper burning tips (each candle is labeled too) and also a statement about I cannot guarantee the burning quality of non-Calico Candle Company Glassware. Ok.. just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisper Girl Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I absolutely agree with Stella. I was just asked yesterday if I would refill a container and said no due to safety reasons. I only use containers that are candle safe from known candle container distributers. I also refuse to use mason jars as I always felt they were made for food - not candles. I love my candle business, but safety comes before profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faerywren Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I absolutely agree with Stella. I was just asked yesterday if I would refill a container and said no due to safety reasons. I only use containers that are candle safe from known candle container distributers. I also refuse to use mason jars as I always felt they were made for food - not candles. I love my candle business, but safety comes before profit.Mason jars are sold by candle container distributers as a candle safe container. And the hot water bath a Mason jar endures during canning is way hotter, approx. 212*F, than a candle is going to get. Glass from anywhere, even a reputable supplier, can break without notice for any reason. I've had them break being washed in the sink, getting filled with ice tea, getting filled with hot tea, in the dishwasher, being dropped on the tile floor (oh wait, that's a given). It's the nature of the beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I just read an article about the recall of 7 million tea lights. One tea light melted its plastic container and the company recalled 7 million rather than chance one person losing their property or life or lives of loved ones. Why not continue to make your specialty candle but insert a container that would increase the safety of your product? I have used all kinds of containers until a thick walled juice glass shattered...no, exploded! Thank God it was in my home and not in a customer's. I bought a slice of pie candle that was in a cardboard wedge that caught on fire and filled my house with black smoke. I thought surely the thing was safe if it was for sale. I don't care what you say or don't say about how the customer should safely manage your product; buyer beware is not a defense. HTHSteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comfortscents Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 I just wrote this grammatically correct long winded post and it's poofed...Here's the gist. I gave some thought all that you had written and decided to test every single container that I had put aside for filling..First I ran all thru the dishwasher. then filled them all, tins included into my oven at 350 degrees for at least 2 hours. There is one really pretty 4 piece Victorian demitasse set that I was iffy on and never poured so I put that thru the oven also. My test burn protocol may be different from yours but I do long burns for my test burns, up to 12 hours a day for most. I follow every safety requirement that's suggested and then some. (side note to Ring of Fire) I will no longer curl my wick to make my presentation cuter....lol...There's a heavy hitter seller who still sells enough in this terrible economy to e a power seller on eBay which means $1,000.00 per month in sales...I became a power seller in 2008-up to when I closed my business in 2009. like the wizard of oz when the curtain was pulled back it became common knowledge that she outsourced her candles....while I was still a customer I bought a pfaltzgraf bowl from her that was approx 6" in diameter, she put 8 wicks in that bowl, all unstabilized and it caused fire...fortunately a friend who bought the same item from this seller burned hers before I did. It left a burn mark on her dining room table, burned her chandelier and her ceiling had to be repainted. The only set of containers I was worried about was a 4 piece bone china demitasse set because of it's delicateness. it "passed" if you will, the dishwasher/ oven test. All my reinforced tins also passed. I have read and read every post on this thread and with the exception of SOW I have learned some useful lessons. BTW I did not test my enamelware. I will almost certainly continue to pour in what I believe to be safe containers....c'mon not one has poured a coffee mug holiday themed candle? But what I believe to be the unsafest problem that faces both candlemakers and soap makers, especially those who work from their home is to have no insurance to cover the act that they are working at a business from their home and don't inform their insurance carriers. Homeowners insurance will not cover a bar of soap that made a customer break out in hives or a candle that smoked and caused damage. You need to add a proviso to your policy to cover your work product. an old jacket factory here in town is renting out space to minority business owners...being a female business owner qualifies me...sad, sad, sad but true. The average store space is 25,000.00 square feet ea. Some of the people moving in are using that massive amount of space as work room/show rooms and living in this factory...Myself and 4 different crafters are considering sharing the space with 5,000 square feet ea....rent will be something like $300.00 a month per crafter. My house is only 3,000 square feet....the other ladies and I thought we could also work out a schedule to include teaching classes, covering for each other and basically using our 5,000 square feet to work in and have a retail portion....problem is....there's asbestos everywhere and each renter is responsible for having it removed. So right now I pay an extra $420.00 a year in insurance because my business is located in my home and that will be going up at the end of this policy year to somewhere around $600.00. So, you can pour in all the candle safe containers in the world but make one slip up, one wrong calculation when pouring your soap and you can lose your home. If you're a hobbyist then not a problem. Get a sales tax ID number or charge someone for some tarts or soaps...you're a business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I'm curious if the testing doesn't then stress them - so that on the next use they can fail...Seems to me it's more correct to test "representative samples" of a container (from the same manufacturing lot or something) rather than the actual container you intend to use and maybe sell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comfortscents Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 I'm curious if the testing doesn't then stress them - so that on the next use they can fail...Seems to me it's more correct to test "representative samples" of a container (from the same manufacturing lot or something) rather than the actual container you intend to use and maybe sell...In some cases that's possible but in most no because because the pieces I'm finding are all different. I did buy 4 hull pottery crocks and decided to use the most distressed one for testing...It held 4 lbs of wax and I wouldn't sell it because of a hairline crack...I'll burn it next week before I fill the remaining three. I'm beginning to have an affinity for the lantern jars. I also found these miniature pitcher at Michael's 3@$1.00. I poured a couple and post photos but I hit every Michael's in the Rochester Buffalo area and purchased 90 of them for $30.00. I will however test a few Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faerywren Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I just read an article about the recall of 7 million tea lights. One tea light melted its plastic container and the company recalled 7 million rather than chance one person losing their property or life or lives of loved ones. Why not continue to make your specialty candle but insert a container that would increase the safety of your product? I have used all kinds of containers until a thick walled juice glass shattered...no, exploded! Thank God it was in my home and not in a customer's. I bought a slice of pie candle that was in a cardboard wedge that caught on fire and filled my house with black smoke. I thought surely the thing was safe if it was for sale. I don't care what you say or don't say about how the customer should safely manage your product; buyer beware is not a defense. HTHStevePlastic and fire don't belong together any more than cardboard and fire do. Flammable is flammable even if it is for sale. I wouldn't ever think a candle wrapped with ribbon or paper or a gas soaked rag was safe just because someone tried to sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I agree that canning containers are safe, as they conform to ASTM standards for candlemaking glass but...And the hot water bath a Mason jar endures during canning is way hotter, approx. 212*F, than a candle is going to get.That is not accurate. Temps in the inside of a container as the candle burns down near the bottom are often way in excess of 212°F. While deliberately trying to catch a tin on fire pursuant to a discussion here a few years back, my thermometer pegged out at 550°F. Now that was an extreme torture test (never got the dang thing to torch off...), but temps of 350°F are not unusual, depending on the length of time the candle is burned. The exterior can remain cool enough to touch while the interior is quite blistering. The canning glassware holds up to this (it's rated for pressure canning at much higher temps), but I'd never reuse it to sell. If a candle is burned carefully, for 1 hour per inch of diameter, the temps will probably not get as high; but if a customer powerburns the candle, get out the marshmallows & weenies - it's gonna get hot in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Well yes, you got me on the Christmas mugs (still have a few left over). I do use Dollar Tree for some glassware and have re-poured candles for customers. Guilty, guilty, guilty. My wife would stroke if she knew you were taking her beloved Hullware and using it for candles. Aged pottery or pottery in general (even modge podged pottery) gives me the willies. I was thinking more of making a pillar and then using an over pour to protect the containers. You still have a lovely effect and a really safe product. I plan on buying a gas soaked rag candle today at the flea market......honestly, that pie wedge was in a fauxe china container that instructed the user to place on a heat proof surface. The stupid thing smoked up the house and made a huge spot on the heat proof surface. I think anything creative and beautifully crafted is a work of art that most people use for looks only. You could never have enough insurance to cover negligence like a gas soaked rag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faerywren Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Well yes, you got me on the Christmas mugs (still have a few left over). I do use Dollar Tree for some glassware and have re-poured candles for customers. Guilty, guilty, guilty. My wife would stroke if she knew you were taking her beloved Hullware and using it for candles. Aged pottery or pottery in general (even modge podged pottery) gives me the willies. I was thinking more of making a pillar and then using an over pour to protect the containers. You still have a lovely effect and a really safe product. I plan on buying a gas soaked rag candle today at the flea market......honestly, that pie wedge was in a fauxe china container that instructed the user to place on a heat proof surface. The stupid thing smoked up the house and made a huge spot on the heat proof surface. I think anything creative and beautifully crafted is a work of art that most people use for looks only. You could never have enough insurance to cover negligence like a gas soaked rag.Really? A gas soaked rag would be negligent? It was sarcasm. Just to prove my point. Plastic melts when it gets hot, so don't put little pools of flaming, melted wax in plastic! Or in cardboard. Same common sense we use when we don't burn our candles near curtains, an 80's Aqua Net hairdo, or a Persian cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but while researching for another thread, I came upon this publication (click on the link below) that EVERY CANDLEMAKER SHOULD READ AND UNDERSTAND. It's a PDF file which can be saved to your computer, printed out and reviewed. The title is "ASTM Standards and the Candle Industry" from a workshop presented at the 3rd World Candle Congress in July 2010. It discusses the various ASTM standards that, AT THIS TIME, are still voluntary; however the NCA and other organizations with an industry interest as well as fire safety organizations are pressing the CPSC to make these standards law. They not only cover glassware standards but also standards for testing, accessories and much more.http://www.eca-candles.com/pdf/WorldCandleCongress/ASTM%20Standards%20and%20the%20Candle%20Industry%20-%20Becker%20Moss.pdfAs for "repurposing" glass candle containers, here's what Yankee Candles has to say about that:http://www.yankeecandle.com/cgi-bin/ycbvp/ycContent.jsp?page=%2FNavigation%2FNon+Product+Left%2FCustomer+Service%2FFrequently+Asked+Questions#refillJarCandleQ: Can I refill my jar candle when it is empty? Do you recycle the empty jars? A: Because glass weakens as it accumulates bumps and scratches from use, we do not recommend refilling our jars for re-use as a candle. However, they make terrific holders for all kinds of things around your home: buttons, nails, cotton balls, potpourri, seashells ... whatever small collections you may want to display. Additionally, our jars and glass lids are 100% recyclable and most local recycling agencies will accept empty Yankee Candle jars with other glass jars. Fire, injury and damage are REAL events that can happen when people burn candles. Ignoring the gravity of manufacturing a product with an open flame is foolish and irresponsible. Being "green" does NOT trump safety. Ever.No one is trying to be a drag or overcautious. It's simple common sense that if you do not KNOW the standards nor whether a product actually meets the standards, you should not use (or reuse) that container for candles you plan to sell to the public. This is as much for YOUR protection as it is your customer's. The need for product liability insurance is obvious. HTH Edited April 25, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Don't want to beat a dead horse here, but... Anyone who is making candles for sale should not only be aware of the relevant standards, they should apply them as if the are not voluntary! It is just common sense to make a safe product, both to limit liability and so no customer burns their house down (or worse). It really burns me up (pun? LOL) when so called "chandlers" are either too ignorant or too cheap to do such things as add a warning label that costs pennies. I am not talking about re-purposing containers here, I am talking about basic safety standards for labeling and just plain common sense! And don't get me started about "chandlers" who don't know how to label a candle with proper weights and such! I know I don't fully apply labeling standards, because I do not add the metric weight of my candles. But come on, if you don't know what the hell you are doing, don't sell a product that could cause property or bodily damage!!!! And I am not calling out anyone specifically, I believe most people on this board are responsible people, so do not take this as an attack on anyone. Just had to vent. Been seeing alot of crap for sale on the 'net and elsewhere, lately. Seems to be getting worse...Cheers,Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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