Why do newcomers use 464??

[bramoncada]

Well I keep on finding that 464 is a favorite for newcomer ( like myself) after researching its incredible throw ability it just made sense. HOW COME THE VETS DONT USE 464!?!?!?!

[RichardLOZ]

Everyone will use what they are comfortable with and what works for them. As Stella says, making a candle is a system, and one system does not fit everyone.

We have been making for a few years now and we do use 464, but not alone, as we also blend a non crystalizing container palm with it, because that is what works for us. We also use glass glow palm, feather palm, plain pillar palm and 416 which is 6 waxes in total.

Glutton for punishment - perhaps, but it is the system that works for us.

[deb426]

I used 464 a few years ago but changed because I found a supplier within driving distance and changed to their wax (C3) to save on shipping.

Edited February 2, 2011 by deb426

[Orchid Lake]

We used 464 early on but found it didn't perform well after it cooled/cured, i.e., we didn't care for the way the tops finished (rough and just kinda "fuzzy" looking) and we found it got worse as product aged. We even experienced some expansion which affected the burn of our tea lights.

Our issues were addressed by changing waxes and we found Ecosoya performed as we liked. Again, maybe a personal preference here.

[islandgirl]

I found 464 had less of a hot throw for me with the oils I use.

The cold throw was not as good.

I had seepage problems with 464.

Just didn't care for it alone. It just was not what I was looking for in a soy wax.

Edited February 2, 2011 by islandgirl

[Judy, USMC]

Started making soy years ago and got my candles perfected with another wax before 464 (which is relatively new) hit the market. I can not see going through the entire testing process, including the expense, if what I have is working.

[moonshine]

Hope this can help you some.....as a newcomer a year ago going with 464

I am not a "vet" by any means but started making candles a year ago and decided I wanted soy wax and went with the 464 because of all that I read on how much fragrance load it could handle- and being brand new I loaded up my candles at 12% FO and hated the way they looked and burned not really understanding why at that time

I then switched to cb advanced but found without literally setting my nose hairs on fire I couldnt get a wiff of scent from them so I then switched to cb135. I did have good candles with the 135 at 8% FO and they looked good and burned good but I got it in my head from everything I read that 135 doesnt have good enough HT (based off alot of peoples opinions) and so I then went back to 464

I have been testing 464 for many months now and I am happy with my results but I do still wish I would have stuck with the 135- it would be at this point way to costly for me to go back again- testing is soooo expensive and time consuming but my gut kept telling me 135 and maybe one day if I win the lottery I will start over with this wax but I have come to far with 464 to switch again.

Point being you have to go with what feels right to you and what you think is working for you not by what you read on what everyone else is using- its a great starting point to get a feel for how many people are using "X" wax and why and there is so much great information on all waxes on this forum to learn from but as far as deciding what type of wax you are going to use you need to use your own judgement- if that makes any sense- There are so many variables involved and everyone has different results- a candle is a system as people point out and once you decide on what you are going to go with you will spend alot of time and money making them all come together

I have learned using the 464 that just because it CAN handle 12% FO it doesnt mean to use it- it absolutely affects everything- I can get a great candle with this now in my opinion and standards with 8%. I do still use the 135 for EO blends- it just works better for me.

[Traveler]

I started out with 464. Loved it. After a year of testing I finally perfected 5 scents in 16oz Apothecary jars that burned safely and threw scent really well. I had everythign written down. I went over the steps multiple times to make sure I had it correct.

So I poured the 5 scents for an upcoming State Fair as a way to introduce customers to a new soy candle line I had wanted to add.

I boxed the candles and stored them in a cool, dry closet in my home for 8 days. Here in Florida, my home is air conditioned and I have had no issues storing other candles here right before an Event. Plus I had tested these soy candles for months....left them all over the house with tops on, tops off...burned in diffferent rooms. Never maxed out the FO load...learned early on that isn't how you get an awesome hot throw from a candle...so all in all, I came to a point where each candle behaved the way I wanted it to. I didn't have any reason to suspect any more issues.

However, the morning I was scheduled to go set up at the Fair I pulled out my candles to start loading them in the car and I was horrified to discover that the 464 wax had literally puffed up inside the jars

(5 boxes of Apothecary jars!!) and completely covered the wicks. And all of the Lilac scented candles had FO seeping out of their tops. That was a pretty depressing moment. All that work and time and money down the drain. CS could not diagnose the problem since the candles had been stored in a cool, dry closet with no exposure to heat or humidty. So I chalked it up to a loss and went back to square one.

I just can't use 464 again. I don't trust that the same experience won't happen again.

But then CS turned me on to Palm wax and I have had so much fun working with this wax it made up for my bad soy trip!! It really showed me how one chandler's favorite wax can easily be another chandler's frustration. One wax does not fit all ;-)

[Faerywren]

I started with 464 because it seemed to be the easiest for a beginner. Good hot and cold throw, no re pours, easy cleanup. it seems like the best choice at first. The idea of re pours and wick testing is daunting.

Going through testing I found things that need to be tweaked, so I adapted. I eventually went with making a blend with paraffin because straight soy was given me fits.

[lsbennis]

I have been using 464 for years in my parasoy blend, have no issues with it. I have tried CB135, Ecosoya Advanced, Enchanted Light and another brand that I can't remember but I prefer the 464.

[bah67]

When we started testing soy we tested 444, 464 and 415. I thought I would like the 464, but the 415 worked better and have used it ever since-and that was the one I almost didn't test, glad I did.

You might want to test other soy waxes and compare the results.

[LuminousBoutique]

Its what I started with, its what I battled with, its still what I use But keep in mind I only have a fraction of the experience some of these ladies (and gents) have with candles, and every time I choose a new container its a new battle.

GB464 to me is a snap to work with, cheap to ship, and easy to find. I've not tested other waxes in large batches because I didnt see the need.. it worked for me. In a different climate it might not work so well. Really, the wax that works for so and so is 100% for their own reasons, thatswhy we all use different ones

[RichardLOZ]

I think with a new container, or even a new oil the battle starts over. Yes I guess you have a starting point of you know the wax reasonably well, but still a battle.

If you want a "real" battle, go play with container palm. Now that is a whole bunch of fun. I have just been testing some "new age" type scents in this wax. Straight sided jar. I have one 2 scents wicked with CDN 10, 1 with CDN 12, 2 with CDN 8 and 1 with CDN 16. Now there is a wide range of wicking for the same old jar.

Just goes to show how much variation there is is the way that the oils affect the wax. I have never experienced anything like that in 464.

[scifichik]

For me, the choice was 464, 444 and 415 because I was lucky enough to have a supplier within a 45-minute drive----which made for huge savings compared to the cost of having it shipped.

They are now carrying EcoSoya products, too, so we'll be testing with those and comparing against what we've learned to do well with the other wax.

[HorseScentS]

Well I keep on finding that 464 is a favorite for newcomer ( like myself) after researching its incredible throw ability it just made sense. HOW COME THE VETS DONT USE 464!?!?!?!

I'm new to candle making, & if I'd based my decision of which wax to use solely on what Candlescience says about 464, I'd have started with it too. They really push it to beginners, saying it has the best throw & is their "most consistent" soy wax & easy to use. I almost ordered it on the spot. I thank God that I kept Googling 464 & reading all the comments about the many problems chandlers have with it, especially the newbies.

Now I plan to start with Ecosoya CB Excel for soy, & Glass Glow for palm. In fact, the palm seems much easier to work with than soy, & since I live in a hot humid area, I've decided not to start with soy, especially with Spring around the corner.

So I guess the vets mostly don't use 464 because they know better.

[Judy, USMC]

I'm new to candle making,

...

So I guess the vets mostly don't use 464 because they know better.

Please don't make assumptions about what the vets use. Each wax has their own unique set of wrinkles that need to be worked out. Some of us never even tried 464 or Excel because we were very comfortable with what we were already working with. Everyone has their own reasons for using what they do.

There was a lot of dicussion about Excel when it first came out. Reports of frosting and bleeding. Some said the hot throw wasn't as good as the C3 they were already using.

I compliment you on your research and hope you find that it works for you ... but if there were one wax that was better than all the rest there would probably be only one wax that everyone here would be pouring with.

[ScentedLuxuries]

I use it! I'll actually use several soy waxes. I get what is cheaper at the time of purchase. I've worked with them all and have tons of wicks. I like 464! My favorite thrower will always be C3, but 464 is good too!

[ScentedLuxuries]

Hope this can help you some.....as a newcomer a year ago going with 464

I am not a "vet" by any means but started making candles a year ago and decided I wanted soy wax and went with the 464 because of all that I read on how much fragrance load it could handle- and being brand new I loaded up my candles at 12% FO and hated the way they looked and burned not really understanding why at that time

I then switched to cb advanced but found without literally setting my nose hairs on fire I couldnt get a wiff of scent from them so I then switched to cb135. I did have good candles with the 135 at 8% FO and they looked good and burned good but I got it in my head from everything I read that 135 doesnt have good enough HT (based off alot of peoples opinions) and so I then went back to 464

I have been testing 464 for many months now and I am happy with my results but I do still wish I would have stuck with the 135- it would be at this point way to costly for me to go back again- testing is soooo expensive and time consuming but my gut kept telling me 135 and maybe one day if I win the lottery I will start over with this wax but I have come to far with 464 to switch again.

Point being you have to go with what feels right to you and what you think is working for you not by what you read on what everyone else is using- its a great starting point to get a feel for how many people are using "X" wax and why and there is so much great information on all waxes on this forum to learn from but as far as deciding what type of wax you are going to use you need to use your own judgement- if that makes any sense- There are so many variables involved and everyone has different results- a candle is a system as people point out and once you decide on what you are going to go with you will spend alot of time and money making them all come together

I have learned using the 464 that just because it CAN handle 12% FO it doesnt mean to use it- it absolutely affects everything- I can get a great candle with this now in my opinion and standards with 8%. I do still use the 135 for EO blends- it just works better for me.

Moonshine, 464 & CB135 are very similar! I can't see a big enough difference in them to warrant changing. Stick with what you know!

[EricofAZ]

Um, 464 and 135 are similar? I did a test on 444, 464, C3 and 135 and the 135 failed miserably. It is a dead wax that turns the FO into nothing.

If you were able to get 135 to throw like 464, then I'm all ears as to your secret.

[moonshine]

Um, 464 and 135 are similar? I did a test on 444, 464, C3 and 135 and the 135 failed miserably. It is a dead wax that turns the FO into nothing.

If you were able to get 135 to throw like 464, then I'm all ears as to your secret.

Isn't that funny- see for me I think the 135 threw better than the 464

I made citronella candles with the 135 in square mason jars with lx wicks for my sister outdoor wedding- she had a huge circus tent with all side flaps open and the candles were so overwhelmingly strong we had to blow some out- in a outdoor environment

I tried the citronella in the 464 with lx, cd, htp and eco wick and cant get half the throw indoors! but then again there was about 30 candles burning at the wedding and only 3 here in the house- maybe that is the difference....

same thing with a few travel 4 ounce tins I made- the 135 were stonger to me than the 464 ones- but the 135 had cured for over a month as opposed to the 464 at 1 week

I do have alot of fragrances that do throw well in the 464 and I have learned how to pour them perfect but in general I did like the look and the throw of 135 better

This has actually got me in the mood to test it again side by side with the 464 in one of my stongest throwers to see if it really is true or psychological or if the cure time or amount of candles burning had everything to do with it!! LOL

just goes to show that not all wax performs the same for each person

[ScentedLuxuries]

Yes for me and my test they performed very similar. There isn't any secret. I was testing 464, 135 and C3. The 464 & 135 performed very similar in many ways. including scent throw. I don't know if it was the jar, the wick, the oil or what, but that was the results I got.

[ScentedLuxuries]

And I agree with moonshine. If I recall the C3 threw best, followed by 135 and 464 ranking 3rd.

[PAgirl89]

I started with 464 and went with CS's recommendations. I have been testing wicks with the 464 and cannot complain about the HT or CT results. I've tried other waxes out of curiousity because the 464 wax has worked so well for me there was no other reason to change to a different wax. But I every time I used a different wax, I've gone back to using the 464. And the 464 is cheaper than other waxes CS offers.