Confused about oils!

[lsbennis]

I'm finally going to try my hand at some HP soap this weekend but I'm really confused about the oils, I'm not sure what the difference is or which is better for soap. I appreciate any advice you have. :smiley2:

For example...Palm Oil

Palm Kernal Oil...is that the same thing as Palm Oil?

Palm Red

Coconut Oil...

Coconut oil 76 degrees

Coconut oil Fractionated

Coconut oil Virgin

Thanks

[LovelyLathers]

Palm and Palm Kernel Oils are different not the same thing. Coconut oil 76 is the one you use for soap. You can use the virgin but it is expensive.

Fractionated is a made from coconut oil but really is not good for soap at all.

I suggest you read http://www.millersoap.com/

Make sure you read this also it should help.

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63074

[Kitn]

You can use palm kernel in place of coconut oil so you don't necessarily need to buy them both.

With 25% PKO or CO

75% OO you can make a lovely mild soap called bastile

[lsbennis]

Thanks everyone, that does help clear up my confusion!

[ChrisR]

I don't buy from here much, but use it for a reference once in awhile if I can't remember qualities of a certain oil. It's a great reference for newbie's though! Just click on the oils or butters and it will tell you what applications they can be used in and what it brings to the table for your skin. http://www.fromnaturewithlove.com/soap/Fixed.asp

[topofmurrayhill]

The properties of oils in B&B products doesn't apply to soap, and unfortunately a lot of what you read about oil properties in soap is nonsense.

Everything you need to know to get started is actually very simple:

• Good soap is made mostly from palm oil (or lard or tallow) and olive oil. Palm and olive are the same thing except that palm makes harder soap. Usually you want more palm oil than olive oil. If you don't mind animal products, lard or tallow can be used in place of palm.
  

• The oils I mentioned above can be used for up to 100% of your recipe, but usually you will also want to also use some coconut oil or palm kernel oil to make the soap more bubbly. For example, a good recipe could be 40% palm oil, 30% olive oil and 30% coconut oil.
  

• When you want to get fancy, a tropical butter like shea butter or cocoa butter can improve the lather and general properties of your soap. You can try something like 5 or 10%.
  

That's all there is to it. Nobody can make better soap than you just because they use an oil other the ones I mentioned. You can use a liquid oil other than olive, but it still needs to have the same composition. Here's how you can tell if some other oil is good for soaping:

Look on the nutrition label in the grocery store. Divide the polyunsaturated fat by the total fat and multiply by 100 to get the percentage. For the olive oil I cook with, it's 1.5 grams poly divided by 14 grams total times 100 = 11% polyunsaturated fat. That's typical for olive oil. If the number is much higher than that, it's not a soaping oil.

My Wesson canola oil is 4 / 14 x 100 = 29% polyunsaturated fat. That's pretty high and not so good for soap. Crisco pure vegetable oil (soybean oil) is 8 / 14 * 100 = 57% polyunsaturated. That totally not a soaping oil.

All the old basic rules for what oils are used for soap and what temperature to soap at are the very best rules. The newer "anything goes" mentality has a lot of pitfalls if you ask me.

[topofmurrayhill]

Coconut oil 76 degrees

Coconut oil Fractionated

Coconut oil Virgin

You can use 76 degree or 92 degree coconut oil (occasionally you'll see the higher melting point stuff, which is just a slightly harder version). Never ever use fractionated coconut oil for soaping.

[lsbennis]

Great info...thanks Top

[lsbennis]

I just tried that formula at the store when I was looking for coconut oil...my % was 3.7 so I guess its safe to say that it will work for soap!

[topofmurrayhill]

I just tried that formula at the store when I was looking for coconut oil...my % was 3.7 so I guess its safe to say that it will work for soap!

Yup, coconut oil is mostly saturated fat.

All the oils I mentioned are standard for soaping and should always be OK. Double check on the nutrition label or in SoapCalc when you're considering an untraditional oil.

You can get the same info in SoapCalc when you click on an oil in the list. Add up the numbers in the bottom two boxes ("linoleic" and "linolenic") where it lists the fatty acids. Those are the polyunsaturated ones and you want both numbers to be low. If you look at the normal soaping oils in SoapCalc, you'll see that they contain less than 15% polyunsaturated fat. Those oils are used not just because they're abundant, but because they work well.

The agricultural eggheads have actually developed different versions of some oils. For example, normal sunflower and safflower oils are very polyunsaturated. However, they now come in "high-oleic" versions that can be used for soaping. Either check the label or buy the high-oleic version from an oil supplier like Columbus Foods.

[lsbennis]

Great info Top...I have all my "stuff" ready for my soapy adventure this weekend. Doing very basic recipe...(thanks Kyme)...and no color, since I dont have any soap colors anyway. All thought I suppose I could use some natural coloring...will have to check into it.

Thanks everyone for your help!

[kyme1911]

:yay::yay::yay:Your gonna love it! he he he

[Darbla]

Crisco pure vegetable oil (soybean oil) is 8 / 14 * 100 = 57% polyunsaturated. That totally not a soaping oil.

Didn't Crisco used to be good for soaping but now it's not? I know I've seen it used in recipes, but then it seems like more recently I've read they changed the formula and ruined it for soaping.

[adillenal]

I think she was referring to the oil in a bottle - Crisco brand. The hydrogenated Crisco in the can is listed on soap calc oils list..

[chuck_35550]

I have an excellent recipe that includes a small percentage of Crisco but a lot just doesn't work good for me. There are lots of recipes for Crisco that folks have been soaping for a long time and love the results. Crisco just substituted palm for the cottonseed. Same stuff. I actually like the palm better. It just sends the linoleic through the roof and doesn't make for a very hard bar on its own. Top is absolutely straight on but the proof of soap is how it acts on the individual skin and not to be expected to work for everybody. I made a lard soap recently that is very nice but makes my skin really oily. My dw took the same bar and said it was perfect for her really dry skin. HTH

Steve

[LuminousBoutique]

PalmOlive was Palm Olive for a reason

I dont use palm.. but I use the same basis for my recipes, with coconut in place of the palm. I use a high % of olive (over 30%), coconut, and fill it out with castor, shea, maybe some cocoa.. AKO, SAO, Soybean I may use to "top off" a recipe, because otherwise recipes can get very expensive.. but not more than 10% on those.

[topofmurrayhill]

Didn't Crisco used to be good for soaping but now it's not? I know I've seen it used in recipes, but then it seems like more recently I've read they changed the formula and ruined it for soaping.

The yellow Crisco cooking oil is soybean, which you don't want to use much of because the polyunsaturated fat doesn't saponify well. In any but small quantities it makes mediocre soap that's prone to get DOS.

The problem with the Crisco vegetable shortening (the solid stuff) is that it resembles a hard oil but it's nothing like palm or lard. It's the equivalent of three-quarters soybean oil. In SoapCalc, these two recipes are the same:

Palm Oil 85%

Soybean Oil 15%

Palm Oil 80%

Crisco 20%