How do you take this???

[EccoLights]

So call this a vent, or a gripe, or anything you want to. First off this is not directed to anyone on CS at all but a "just in common" question and vent session.

How do you deal with other "makers" of your products, be it candles, soaps, lotions, etc... that ask for your advice or tips or even just observe your business and promotions, ideas, techniques, sales strategy, etc and then go and copy that same exact thing???

We tend to be very friendly people and will bend over backwards to assist anyone. But at what point do you see others using your words, or using your exact promotions, or even copying what you do... when is it right to say something or do you just hold it in and say "lesson learned"?

We have made candles for some time, tested many ways, researched for hours upon hours, made mistakes, corrected them, perfected them.... and in our findings, we tend to see that most "hand crafters" are very private in what they use exactly and how they process it. Maybe that is our lesson learned??? Do you guys find this too??

Now i know from being on CS for about a month now that there are many many friendly people out here, and are willing to give all the knowledge they have to all... but when you do find other people copying what you did, and I mean to a "T", wording and all... I don't know, is it just us... is it wrong??? I mean it is common knowledge but just seems like morals of some have lost their way...

Sorry to vent but we have seen this with quite a few people that we have "helped" recently and its getting rather frustrating to say the least! Again, no one from CS, just a general statement about some local folks to us.... Can't wait to see what some of you guys have to say on this one.....

Rob and Troy

Ecco Lights

[carol k]

After one chatty kathy came nosing around wanting to be all buddy buddy & then seeing her at another show where she had stolen my ideas. Now I avoid them. I have always went out of my way to avoid any other candle/b&b makers booth. If one of them comes to my booth I try to ignore them. I simply hate having my ideas ripped off. I guess some take it as a compliment (sp) but I don't.

[simplybeelightful]

I just politely tell the person asking that I don't share my secrets, recipes, etc. because I worked too hard and too long to figure them out myself and do not intend to share that info.

[lindanelson]

I tell people they have the same research tool that I have...the Internet.

[safetysue]

I completely understand. I was making my first Aroma Ornies three weeks ago when my neighbor stopped over who just happen to open up a craft business once she found out I did and rented a booth at the same craft mall I’m at. She’s going into bath & body products and I’m into soy so that didn’t bother me much. However the following week when she stopped over she informed me that she’s going to make Aroma Ornies and sell them too – Oh but not at the same place I sell mine. I just looked at her and said “honey this town isn’t big enough for both of us and I think you better go home now”. Hadn’t heard from her until yesterday when she called to invite me over to swim AND to borrow labels. I was conveniently out of stock and no I didn’t go swimming. It’s in the nineties here but there’s a chill in the air - LOL

[jonsie]

I am learning you can be kind and supportive without handing over what makes you unique and successful. You can "be as wise as a serpent and as gentle as a lamb." But it is a difficult to do that in craft like ours that has a strong sense of community.

I know of a very popular supplier here in Australia that had pretty much their whole web site copied over with descriptions, word-for-word. The copycat even used their same domain name except for one letter difference. They had to spend money on an attorney to send a Cease-and-Desist letter, and fortunately the offender stopped. Considering how kind and trusting this supplier is, it is a shame they have to experience (and pay) for that.

What I can take from his experience is to:

• watermark your images
  
• lace your descriptions with direct reference to your company name, and your personal experiences
  
• trademark your business name and your logo (expensive, and not for every small business)
  
• when dealing with your customers, emphasize your experience with the product and your customer support
  

If someone is immoral enough to take short cuts and copy whole aspects of your business, chances are they will take short cuts in the quality of their products and in their customer service. Try to take heart that their business model shouldn't last for the long run, and keep your chin up.

I wish I had better advice, except to say a good product will speak for itself.

[annie123]

I have been in this business for a while now and I have learned that there are a lot of desperate people out there who would do anything to make a buck...

These people don't really care about making the candles they just want to make money, they don't have any talents or imagination to create anything nice so they have to steal from others. These are the people selling all the junk candles on e-Bay for 99 cents...

Over the years I have had my pictures stolen of my website, my designs replicated, some people ordered my candles just to reproduce them others just put them on their websites, some have tried to become my friends and ask for "advice" , copied my bio words for words, and one lady bought a candle from me washed the jars and made the same style candle in it an sold it on e-Bay...However when you confront these lovely people they get nasty and tell you that you are the one stealing from them...sad.

These are people whitout any moral values or ethics and who will never understand that their behavior chases away the wealth they so much desire.

[EccoLights]

Thank you guys for your input and thoughts on this.... I agree totally that we are going to start keeping quite and not telling much to anyone asking. It's just sad tho that things have to be this way, we found a few wonderful people in the very beginning that helped us out so much and we wanted to give back the favor... maybe we'll just be more selective on who we share info with

[rebeccajo99]

I agree that we do have to be selective. I'm more open to the people here than I am to people I encounter at shows. At shows I tell people I start with this and add this, this, this, this, this... and they are like, "wow didn't know it took so much. How did you decide to make this" I just tell them a lot of trial and errer until I found what I liked.

I don't know of anybody yet that has copied me exactly and I don't care if people take my recipes and formulate them to what they like and works for them (I do that all the time when I look for recipes for new products, tweek them until I like them).

The hard thing on this forum is that posts come up in search engines (that is how I found this forum in the first place, trying to figure out why something wasn't working), so being open to members is being open to the world. At least if people find it doing searches on the web, at least they are looking for it and will hopfully continue reading. I hate to have it that we have to have after every post, "this is what works for me, it may or may not work for you"

I'm sorry you had a bad experiance already

[kandlenutz]

How funny it is that I just came across this and VERY recently am experiencing a similar thing! I was doing refills for my sister and someone else, well, my sister was buying so many that I recommended to her that she should just make them! I would tell her anything and help her w/ whatever, she's my sister. Then, I have someone else that wanted to make their own also, she didnt buy as many from me, but anyway, so I told her I would get her a box of wax the next time I went and got a big load. I didnt mind that at all. I even offered to help her w/ tips, but I did find myself wondering how much info I should pass along... she mentioned she was also going to make them for her family and friends, some of whom buy from me already???? I have been given soooooooo much help and advice on here, and from other resources, that I feel like I "owe" it to pass the info along, BUT I also did TONS of hours of research and testing, and all the money and time i have invested in that wasnt cheap! THEN, last night, I get a message on my FB from someone that I think I went to school w/??? asking me where I got my info on making candles or something to that effect? This person isnt even a "friend' on FB??? I havent responded yet????? I was going to say online since that's where 99% of my info has come from. I have talked to other candle makers and read some books at the library, but they were so dated that the online info was better. So, after all that my position on this is that I think its great to share the knowledge, especially since so many did for me, GREAT Big Thank you to you ALL, BUT I think the person asking should still have to do the footwork and not expect it all to just be "handed" to them. ok.... so now that I have typed out my novel, I'm going to work:)

[jennyjo]

I'm learning to look at candle making as a talent, not a recipe. We all share recipes that we love...but we can't share our talents with other people. Keep them as your talents and don't assumed it is all to be shared. I just found out yesterday, that a girl I used to work with started a candle business. I didn't help her at all...I haven't even worked with her in two years. It's still upseting to see someone out selling candles that I know. They aren't great looking, but they smelled okay. I was half tempted to buy one to try it out, but they would've known what I was up to. I sympathize with you all. However, I know my candles are great and I work hard to make them that way! I know that you all do, too. (or we wouldn't spend so much time here together, lol)

Edited June 3, 2010 by jennyjo

[country bee]

boy,do I hear ya!At the farmers market 2 weeks ago,a woman set up next to me selling yard sale stuff.She seen all my business goings on and later said(I am going to dowhat you do)tell me how and I'll be selling the stuff next weekend:shocked2:Can you believe it.I said ,not in my area.NO,I did not help her/I said turn on your lap top sitting there and go for it.

[EccoLights]

boy,do I hear ya!At the farmers market 2 weeks ago,a woman set up next to me selling yard sale stuff.She seen all my business goings on and later said(I am going to dowhat you do)tell me how and I'll be selling the stuff next weekend:shocked2:Can you believe it.I said ,not in my area.NO,I did not help her/I said turn on your lap top sitting there and go for it.

We also have had a few of these people too hun! They see that we do well with our products (and they are great candles) and they think that they can capitalize on the same thing... we just look at them now and say BRING IT ON!! LOL

I'm sorry to say this but we do feel a slightest bit better hearing all of you that have dealt with the same exact thing as we did/do. I know its no help but venting is all we have sometimes

Well off for another weekend at the booth Let's see who brings what this week?? Should be a good one..... well sure you guys know about the market drama... we got some brewing now and it should be mighty interesting this weekend xoxo