pillar flops

[topofmurrayhill]

I'm kind of dubious about all the babysitting too. I see palm pillars sitting on piles of sand in hurricanes, burning all day with a teeny flame--yet other candles need a stopwatch. I listen to stuff about candle spinning and wick nudging. I hear about single-wicked soy containers larger than 3 inches across, tested with the old "candlemaker denial" trick of trimming the wick extra short--but apparently still resulting in soot on the shoulders of the jar.

Moreover, I hear this incessant talk about customers being fools, which really rubs me the wrong way. After a while, I take it as a sign of insecurity to bad-mouth customers like that. Maybe someone with all the veggie wax answers should actually post their own burn-test sequences: tests with normal wick trims that demonstrate what the average "fool" will experience if they don't scrutinize how the candle is doing each time they go past, or consult the wick-trimming checklist matrix in the user's manual, or call the tech-support hotline.

It's convenient when all the answers end with blaming it on the user if they have a mediocre experience--the old handcrafter cop-out. But if it's possible to design candles that don't require all the futzing around, then who's the fool for not doing it? Or if you're doing it, then post some photos and show people how good candles should work instead of just pontificating.

[lrbd]

I'm kind of dubious about all the babysitting too

well me too. I just want to be able to make one that won't blow up:laugh2:

I figure even if I can't get a nice pretty shell when it's done that be ok . but i can't have them exploding. That would be a bad thing .

I know from reading you don't use palm or soy if I am not mistaken but do you have these same problems or do your candles burn with a nice shell?

thanks Laura

[topofmurrayhill]

I know from reading you don't use palm or soy if I am not mistaken but do you have these same problems or do your candles burn with a nice shell?

I use soy for containers sometimes and I'd like to play around with palm containers at some point when I have extra time. With pillars, I don't use either one and probably won't any time soon, because I'm pretty picky about how they burn.

You can get paraffin pillars to burn with a nice shell, but usually you limit the height of the shell, which melts at the top and gets consumed as the candle burns down. Blowouts are rare except with narrow candles, but with the variety of paraffins available you can always make it work properly.

The challenge with those palm pillars is that they're like a container candle without the glass. Unless you wick them so low that they have to burn for a long time to avoid tunneling, there may always have to be some time limit on them.

The other issue is keeping the burn centered. You can take advantage of the hole in the mold for that. When you tape the wick down, the width of the hole throws it off-center just enough to help you out. Make sure it's off center in the direction opposite to the wick curl.

[Stella1952]

I'm kind of dubious about all the babysitting too...

...etc., etc.,...blah...blah...blah

Top, you are bound and determined to try to deliberately misinterpret or twist or magnify or minimize or jumble all together anything I say about anything for all time, so I just am not gonna worry about your nasty criticisms. If you can't understand the points I am making and others can, I don't know what to tell you. You pick out every diddlin' thing you wanna quarrel about and frankly, I don't have time to argue with your nasty jibes & criticisms. While you are extremely knowledgeable, and I respect your experience immensely, your caustic, "gotcha" style remarks are uncalled for. I hope you feel some relief now that, once again, you have been allowed to blow off at me. :rolleyes2

[lrbd]

I may be sorry for this but I gotta do it... you two are both so knowledgeable , so helpful , and so nice to all of us learning .This forum is so helpful and fun . I wish you guys got a long . I have learned so much from each of you . That's it I'm done . peace

[lrbd]

I've been wanting to try the CDN10's but they've been OOS

I would be happy to send you a some until they are back in stock. JBN said soon but I can throw some in the mail for you .

[lrbd]

I also use the LX wicks for my palm pillars. Thats where the LX really shines. Nice steady burn with no curling and they self trim (although I do trim them before each burn just to be sure).

I use an LX 24 or 22. If you want a shell to remain while the candle burns down use the 22. It leaves a shell like the photo of Stella's candle. If you use the 24 it will start consuming the entire candle while leaving a shorter thinner shell that burns down as the candle burns down. I prefer the 24 but the shell left by the 22 is also nice.

I think I just might give these a try. I read on the forum that Nancy uses the 24 for four inch pillars I guess I should try the 22. Though I think the stearic acid might be helping. Thanks

[soy327]

lrbd,

I'm with ya on that one.

Top the way I see it you take every chance you have to try to chew Stella up and spit her out. I think you are a very intelligent person, and I really respect your view and advice, but it's real hard to get through all the manuchia and learn something here when there is bickering going on. I say PEACE too.

Top, you and Stella have helped us all a lot, and we appreciate it. Let's all be friends.

[cybersix]

I believe the right is in the middle.

I can see both Stella's and Top's points.

But if I make a pillar, there's no reason I should burn it in a container.

I always reccomend a plate, but that's it.

Since I found the wick that works for me I never had a blowout, and I don't have the need to wick a palm pillar to make it become another type of candle putting a tealight in it.

Never had to twist a wick.

Maybe I'm lucky, I don't know. A customer has surely to pay attention with a lit candle, but a pillar is a pillar. A container is a container.

There are some materials that simply aren't "perfect" for a candle.

I use soy for containers, palm and paraffin for pillars.

But I keep on thinking that the perfect material for candles IS paraffin.

I use soy because it's requested, and palm because I personally love the look.

I try to get the best out of each wax, but when I watch them burn, or cool down, I see they aren't perfect, with soy being the worst among the three. I'm satisfied of my results with palm pillars and I'm happy for it, because I can burn them exactly like a paraffin pillar. Or they wouldn't be pillars.

So my advice would be to have the best burning candle you can, without taking for granted some "typical" problem of the palm wax.

Good work!

[Meridith]

Well said Sabrina. You put that in a very respectful way. I know that no wax or wick is perfect. Its all about finding what's right for you and that could be so different than what works for the next person. I think you get that.

I can't help but think its possible to wick a candle that does nor require being burned in a container or that the candle be turned while burning, etc. Since we are completely new to pillars, I'm guessing on this but Sabrina's post tells me I can achieve that.

I test my candles under a variable of situations even though I know I can't control what a customer will do with it when they get my candle home. Its always my goal to make a candle that will burn correctly even when burned under the not so desirable circumstances as a customer might do. I want to do everything I can do to ensure that. But I also realize there comes a point that I have no control.

I do appreciate all the give and take and the sharing of knowledge. But its quite true that this constant bickering between both Top and Stella is ridiculous. Its like a battle between the 2 to "outknowledge" each other. Its getting old. We all can share ideas without people talking down to each other.

[Candybee]

Kudos to Sabrina and Meredith. You both said what I was thinking. I think the best we can try for is to make as good a candle as possible. Certainly one that burns without a whole lot of fuss on the consumers part whether its a container candle or a pillar. We all know that that is not gonna happen anyway.

I know I don't want to have to burn my pillar candle in a container or twist the wick. I don't do either. I love the look of how a good pillar candle burns and want to give that to my customers.

[quietgirl2004]

lrbd,

I'm with ya on that one.

Top the way I see it you take every chance you have to try to chew Stella up and spit her out.

I agree and anybody else who knows what theyre talking about. Its getting old.

[markinsterling]

:tiptoe: This newbie is not going to keep draggin it through the mud, but I am so darn opinionated & educated it scares me sometimes (< JUST KIDDING ).

My father who I am proud of & thank God he is still with us everyday said something that maybe could be used here for the 2 wonderful & VERY smart folks that bless us with most the time intelligent, helpful and reasonable post & that is " If you see a dog barking at you on a porch, never get on all fours & bark back at it " in other words cant we all just get along ?..... Peace out & blessings to everyone.

[lrbd]

BTW-- I buy my LX spool wicking from CS if that makes any difference.

I have nver use spool wicking ... this may be stupid question but her it goes.... Spooled wicking is not treated with a wax coating right? If I am right how do you prep them for the pillar or do you do nothing ? Thanks

Edited February 26, 2010 by lrbd

[topofmurrayhill]

I have nver use spool wicking ... this may be stupid question but her it goes.... Spooled wicking is not treated with a wax coating right? If I am right how do you prep them for the pillar or do you do nothing ? Thanks

If you wick the mold, you don't have to do anything. You need some wax to soak into the wick to help with lighting, but this normally happens by itself in the course of making the candle. If you mold the candle with a hole in it, then you would need to dip the wick in melted wax before inserting it.

[lrbd]

thanks. does enough soak in to take care of the part of the wick that is outside the mold( the top)?

[topofmurrayhill]

thanks. does enough soak in to take care of the part of the wick that is outside the mold( the top)?

It should go right through the hole and soak in, no prob.

I've never even tried wicking a mold using a wick from a wick assembly. That coating is rather thick for the purpose. Folks who prime spooled wicking for a pillar usually just dip and wipe off the excess.

Edited February 26, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[lrbd]

Thanks