pcbrook Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I was hoping someone could shed some light as to why this happened and if it can be prevented. I use GB 415, red dye flakes and Peaks Mac Apple at 8%. Ugh! I don't even think I can take a heat gun to these because the wick is almost buried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) I use GB 415Dat why. "Rough" tops are characteristic of 100% soy waxes. You could try adding some CO or USA to smooth out the texture of the wax, reduce frosting, etc. I dunno about 415, but I find that red dye is troublesome to me with NatureWax C3. When I use enough dye to get a nice, deep red, frosting issues (related condition to cauliflowering - polymorphic wax changing its crystal phase) are a much bigger problem. I've noted this in both dye chips and with liquid dye. You might try lightening up on the dye also to see if that has a bearing on the cauliflowering & frosting. Using more than 1 oz./pp can also cause more frosting issues in certain FOs. How long did you burn the candle for your first test burn? It looks like it has burned for longer than 1 hour per inch of diameter! Is that a tin inserted into something else and did you test burn it that way? The reason I am asking is that it almost looks like the candle was overheated...There is no reason to heatgun this candle. While it looks kinda rough, you can continue testing it to see if the wicking is correct for that container. It's not unusual to have some hangup after the first or second test burns. When testing containers, don't burn them in a close-fitting container of any kind. This will concentrate the heat inside the container (it insulates) and give you inaccurate results. Your customers will not be doing this - they will most likely be burning the container without any kind of outer protection. DO set the container on a non-flammable, heat-resistant surface (glass or china, etc.), but nothing around it. HTH Edited August 18, 2009 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewOrleansLady Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Stella, I think it's in those tin paint cans...but maybe I'm wrong.I was wondering are the pictures in time line order because 1 & 4 look like the same photo as does 2 & 3 (going from left to right) or is this 4 different times and they just look that similar....or do I need another visit to the opthomologist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) or do I need another visit to the opthomologist?I dunno about that, but more coffee might be required!!Paint can container?*squints at monitor*You may be correct... reminded me of a thermos bottle! Yes... DEFINITELY mo' coffee!!! Edited August 18, 2009 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Hey Ladies!Yes, those are paint can containers. I bought a few to test them out and maybe take some to craft shoes this fall and winter. There is an 8 oz and a 16 oz one. I burned the 8 oz for about 2 hours and it had a nice melt pool across the top. The 16 oz went for about 3 hours. This is the first time a did anything like this and I was unable to really tell how deep the melt pool was. I usually use glass jars and I have never seen anything this bad. Sometimes a little bumpy but this was horrible. I guess I was shocked the way it went up the sides and then there was a big bump in the middle almost burying the wick when it was cooled. They are not in time line. I just took the pictures of both after they had cooled down and they are not in any particular order, sorry about that. My thoughts were to try a different FO with a different color to see what happens there. Could be that or maybe the paint cans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Soy does some mighty strange things when the heat is reflected back onto the top... I just took some photos of an old (4 yr.) NatureWax V1 votive I powerburned the other night. I put it in a flowerpot votive glass (since that's what I molded it from) and set that inside a pale green frosted glass vase I have. It was very pretty! When I looked at it a little while ago to see how it had burned (I thought it might be underwicked) I was amazed to see that the wax had "grown" up over the sides of the little flowerpot. Dunno if the wick would have "caught up" and melted the hangup because the hangup just plain crawled away!!! Will post some photos later on in the gallery as this one's just TOO strange... I kinda miss V1 & P1 for this reason - ya never knew WHAT was gonna happen... Ecosoya PB is so predictable...What kind/size wick is in there? What is the mouth & inside diameter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 After I took the pictures yesterday afternoon I tried lighting them to see if the wick would catch up but it did not. 16 oz has 2-3/4" opening and I had a CD16 in there.8 oz has 2" opening and I had a CD8 in it. After the test last night I just yanked the wicks out and melted down the sides with a heat gun and gonna try over again tonight after I get home from work. I decided if the wick would not catch up to that I could not sell it that way. The thing that bugs me is they had a really nice melt pool although the hot throw was not that great. But I think that FO is always on the light side anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scent Cellar Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) Glad I saw this posting. Just this week I was eyeing up the paint cans from BCS and was going to order them for straight soy candles for a rustic line. I think I will continue to pour into glass as I was worried about the heat from the aluminum. Edited August 18, 2009 by Scent Cellar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 I hear ya! I just bought a dozen of each to see how they would work out. I am not giving up yet though. I am going to try different wicks and different FOs to see what happens.If I cannot get them to work I can always give them to my DH to use in his work shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scent Cellar Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 They may work with a different wax with a cooler burning wick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyme1911 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) I think it has to do with something other than the can...a friend of mine made me candle (in a apothecary jar) and it did the same thing. I was shocked when I looked in the jar the next day. So I don't think it's the can... Edited August 18, 2009 by kyme1911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 I think it has to do with something other than the can...a friend of mine made me candle (in a apothecary jar) and it did the same thing. I was shocked when I looked in the jar the next day. So I don't think it's the can...Wow! I have never seen anything quite like that before in glass jars. Like I said a little bumpy but that was really wild. Did you try to burn it again? And if so, did it burn okay? I am going to try this with a different FO and color to see what happens. I have done a little more research on these and others have made these with soy and no one ever reported this happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyme1911 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 yes I burned it 2nd...3rd. It was strange... it will be interesting to find out what other people think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyTru Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I had this problem. I added 1 ounce of Crisco (or exact equivalent) to 1 pound wax and it stopped the cauliflower tops. Trudi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 It's one of the nastiest problems with soy when the wax swells like that and buries the wick. It can even happen over time to an unburned candle, but occasionally it happens all at once.I've seen that the effect can vary with the fragrance, so a different FO might be less likely to do it. If you have a persistent problem, it might be also be worth seeing if USA prevents it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyme1911 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 with all soy, or are some brands more susceptible? I use GW464 and have never seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in KY Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I've only seen pure soy GF 402 and 415 blossom like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 EZ Soy does it as well. Its a soy thing that sometimes can't be avoided but certain additives can help i.e., crisco, bees wax, paraffin. I don't color my candles and I've had it happen before. It's either the wax and the conditions it is under at the time or the FO, but which I don't know. I haven't had it happen in years since I use my own soy blend. I've also had my wax swell. That happened to me years ago. I posted about it on the old board but its been too long and I can't remember now what the responses were. I'm sure it can be found in the archives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 with all soy, or are some brands more susceptible? I use GW464 and have never seen it.Your soy is not a "pure, 100% soy" wax. It's a blend of soy & another wax and an additive. So perhaps that's why you have never seen this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwillo2 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 My 464 did it as well.... About 6 months in a warm enviroment and there was no wick left to light....And when I was testing with CO, the 464 tended to grow more...Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Have seen it before in natural soy without colour, just the nature of the beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 Well, I just poured another 8 ozer with Mistletoe and green dye chip. I will let it sit for a few days and test burn it to see what happens. I am seriously thinking about switching waxes to a para/soy blend. Kinda getting sick of all this inconsistency with pure soy. I have been making these candles for about 2 years now. I hear so many good things about the 6006 wax that it makes me want to give it a try. I will wait to see what happens with the new candle I just poured. I would like to thank everyone for your input. I really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwillo2 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I am seriously thinking about switching waxes to a para/soy blend. Kinda getting sick of all this inconsistency with pure soy. I have been making these candles for about 2 years now. I hear so many good things about the 6006 wax that it makes me want to give it a try. That is exactly what happened to me.....I don't use 6006 but I make my own parasoy blend....Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Just thought I would update in case anyone was interested.The Mistletoe with the green dye did not cauliflower up as much as the red one with the Mac Apple. I ordered some 6006 and I am doing a little experimenting with that right now to see how it works. Man, there are so many different waxes out there and so many variations. I have been reading up on the USA too. It is funny how people think that's all we do is put a wick in a jar and pour some wax. How can it be so hard?? Right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Mistletoe with the green dye did not cauliflower up as much as the red one with the Mac AppleYou have two factors for cauliflowering: one is the FO, the other is the dye. Sometimes it's a combination of a certain FO and a certain dye. Might try testing Mistletoe with red and Mac apple with green and see how those combos turn out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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