What do you think???

[LynnS]

I have a order for 3 candles.The man's wife has COPD. He has researched that soy and beeswax candles are safer and she should be OK with them.

The 3 fragrances are Gardenia, Fresh Cut Roses and Lavender.Lavender sorta soothing but OMG Fresh Cut Roses to make is unbearable for me.I have a fast heart rate(but controlled) with meds. Just gets to me with my breathing to make.

He is trying them so I guess it is OK?? What do some of you think?? Suggest other fragrances or just with soy it should be OK/safe. I don't want the lady to become ill. A lady last year at a craft show said she cannot burn candles because of her husband's COPD. My husband worked with the wood roses with the Fresh Cut Rose scent and after they dried it was hard on me.Other scents were OK but just that rose scent.

Any ideas or suggestions???I know people want to burn candles but sometimes health issues prevent that. Do any of you know someone with this but can tolerate soy candles??

LynnS

[NewOrleansLady]

I would suggest he contact her Dr. If he insists than I would suggest anything but florals. I've been told by a Dr. that floral scents are the absolute worst for allergies or asthma etc.

Now beeswax you don't need to scent. The honey scent is very light.

[candlelady]

I understand your concern, and I would wonder about his intentions as well, however, he is responsible for his own purchases, and you are not a doctor, nor are you the allergy police.

I say, fulfill the order, a put a disclaimer in the order stating you are not responsible for any adverse reactions he or any of his family members have. Somewhere along those lines, keep any emails printed and attached to the order, etc...

We can't police our customer's orders and "why" they purchase what they purchase.

I'm not trying to be cold about his wife's issues, it's either he wants them and takes the risk at his own doing, or he doesn't.

I sure don't ask my customers if they are going to sit their candles next to a curtain or in reach of children, or because they are buying a Gardenia or Rose candle, if they have allergies.

I'm probably not wording this right, but I hope you get "what" I mean.

Carrie

[NaturallyTru]

I can't make Mulberry candles...they give me a migraine and I am out for days. Whenever I had a customer ask if I could do Mulberry, I simply told them how it affected me. They just chose different scents that I had. I wouldn't temp making them if it will make you feel ill. Then you couldn't tend to you other orders and family obligations. jmo

Trudi

[LynnS]

These replies are all good. Here is what I already did but got no answer.

I did e-mail him and said I was concerned about the scented candles that he chose. Also the flame. I told him many of us candlemakers can't stand florals.They bother us. I did ask(another concern) if his wife is on Oxygen would not a good idea to have a flame candle around.I am sure some but not all PD patients use oxygen. I told him about wickless candles without flame would be safer.Also mentioned fruit scents would be milder and they smell so good. Again told him florals might be a bit to much.

I asked if a wickless tin would be fine and I would sell it to him reasonable.It would be safer to buy wickless and hope it will not bother his wife. And again the flame problem was mentioned if she is on oxygen.

SO far no answer if she is on oxygen, no answer if he would prefer wickless tins. Of course I mentioned he would need a warmer. I am getting No response and I told him to let me know what he would like to do.

And one last thing I sent was a thing I read where if a person with OCPD is going to attend holiday parties to ask the hostess to please refrain from burning candles as it would bother them and the visit would not be pleasant.This is what was mentioned by those who care for OCPD patients and those who live with it. Now that told alot. Burning candles around people with pulmonary disease is not recommended.

I said I understand many people love candles and know you and your wife would love to burn them. Just don't want her to become ill or end up in the hospital.(This could happen)

I did think about what candlelady said. Put a disclaimer.No other way. I carry insurance but not sure about this.If it doesnt feel right it usually isn't.

LynnS

[NewOrleansLady]

Another precaution.....print this out. Shows proof of your intentions.

We can only do so much but since he offered the info of the COPD it's your duty to inform your customer, which you've done. If he still chooses to purchase it's on him. If you don't sell to him someone else will.

[LynnS]

I Would like to hear from the wife. I am sure all of you feel the same way. He might like candles and wants them and his intentions not to burn in the area his wife will be. Still she could have a slight problem breathing.

Oh I am sure someone else will sell to him.I am glad he told me but might be testing to see if I will do it.He never gives a answer which to me is strange.I would send him a wickless to try.If that works then go for a burning candle. Still the fragrances are a bit much.Thank Goodness my husband can stand the Fresh Cut Roses(a wholesaler likes that scent too)

Think I will e-mail again.Just another chance.You know he might be busy.

The lady at the craft show I met last year said there was only one scent she purchased but for soap(not candles).It was Angel. She said other scents would bother her husband.Only one and it wasn't something that burned. She said she had to be very careful.

LynnS

[Wildcrafter]

I would never sell a candle to anyone with COPD that has FOs in it.

EOs may be ok, but not FOs.

[Jaime]

My dad had emphysema for years and a couple years before he passed away he was on oxygen. So that meant no open flames in the house. He was extremely sensitive to smells. We had to get rid of our dog cause of the pet dander and smell. Even before the oxygen, candles would sometimes be a problem if they were highly scented. It would shut his breathing down even worse than it already was. I was a teenager so I didn't make candles then of course. We usually had to wait till we were in the car to even spray our perfumes. Maybe his wife's COPD is not as severe but I don't really understand why he would want to take the chance?? If they are just wanting candles maybe you could make unscented ones? I didn't know if he is really wanting something scented or just the ambience of a burning candle?

[hometowncandles]

My dad has COPD and cannot stand to be around a burning candle. He ask his Dr about soy being better than other types of wax, and the Dr said there's no medical basis for this claim. Even if you use soy wax, there is still the issue of the wax, f/o, and dye being burned off and getting into the air. My dad can stand a few of the milder scents in tarts and wickless though.

IMO this is a decision the customer is going to have to make, they should have enough common sense not to use something that is going to make them or a loved one ill. That would be like me knowing I was allergic to something, but allowing my husband to feed it to me anyway. We have to take responsibility for ourselves and not put that burden on others.

[LynnS]

I have thought more today on this. Really the last hour.I haven't received any answer from him. I know the customer is right BUT he is not cooperating. I asked him about oxygen and asked him to maybe try a mild wickless.Still he will not answer.I feel he thinks I will fill the order and then I will be to blame if something happens. He won't answer but seems he wants me to decide.I am deciding this small order is not worth it.

Tell him for his wife's safety I don't think a burning candle will be safe. I am refunding your money. Mention to him what I read and sent to him tells alot(from a OCPD patient) that they should not be around burning candles.Maybe a mild scented wickless but not a flamable one. Tell him your wife may have a mild case but doesn't mean she should be around burning candles and those that are highly scented.

I feel I know to much about this and filling the order would be also my responsibility.I have to think of my conscious(sp)and my business.:smiley2:

LynnS

[Wildcrafter]

It's about ethics. Is a person so into the money that they'll take anyone's money no matter what or will they have decent ethics and morals. I'm not slamming anyone here, but I've seen some pretty unethical stuff happen in the "natural" body care business.

I have refused people's business many times because what they wanted to buy from me I felt would not work for them or may harm them.

I'm talking about herbal medicine, which is what I do.

[KristineG]

I have a order for 3 candles.The man's wife has COPD. He has researched that soy and beeswax candles are safer and she should be OK with them.

LynnS

Do you have a paid order for 3 candles? My suggestion would be to email him one more time. Let him know that you previously emailed him and haven't received a response. You should again outline your concerns. Give him a few days to respond. If he doesn't, I'd refund his payment.

If he has not paid for the order. Let it go. He probably already changed his mind or went somewhere else.

[justrightcandles]

I agree with Carrie you can not police what your customers are doing with your products. If he doesn't like it or she does not do well with them then he now knows.

If he already paid give him what he ordered if he had not already paid then i say just let it go too.

[joanncat18]

Ya know, really do you ask each and evey customer about health problems of the people in their home? Anyone who is on Oxygen is educated by their doctor/ home health that they cannot have flames around it...that being said we have all seen or heard of people who smoke while on oxygen. I don't know...I just think you are a candle maker, not a doctor and cannot be held responsible for your customer's health problems. Who are you to say if she should or should not burn a candle? You don't know how severe her condition is or even IF she is on oxygen. That's my thought on it. We are all responsible for our own health. It's not like we would have a health questionaire for each person wanting to purchase a candle from us. Just my opinion here of course and sounds like you have already taken care of this issue with the customer.

Jamie

[beekeeper_sd]

Lynn S.

Not that I'm trying to take business away from you but, If you would like to refer him to me, I make 100% beeswax candles and, if he is intent on burning a candle, an unscented beeswax candle would probably be the answer.

[SherriLynn]

Good decision Lynn..I wouldn't sell them candles either. The BIG red flag that stands out to me is that this person has specifically pointed out to you, there is a medical breathing problem living in the home. I realize we cannot police our customers, but when a customer knowingly admits there could be a problem using your product in their home, I wouldn't be selling them anything. It's called "punitive damages" in the law world - Example: you willingly sold a product to someone that could have an adverse affect from it.

I've been accident free for 10 years on my candle insurance policy,,, my business nor my insurance could afford the liability of a hospitalized breathing episode or in the worse case death.

[LynnS]

Thank you Sherri Lynn. This was kinda my thoughts from the beginning but know many here are more knowledgable.Maybe had a similar experience like the one who turned someone down.

Glad the husband was truthful but it is my decision if I want to take the risk. I see a BIG red flag here. Husband is telling me something I read is not OK. Has he asked the doctor because my research said no burning candles for pulmonary diseased patients.I feel it doesn't matter how mild her disease is or if she is on oxygen(or not) death or another serious problem could occur. Even a mild case could become more severe. Why would it be OK to aggravate a problem that already exists?????????????? I could care less if it is mild because face it the guy never answered me back. Seems to be avoiding the issue.

I have a gut feeling this is wrong and a red flag from the beginning. Just mixed about it. You know turning down business. A large or small order isn't worth it. If someone said they want my candles for lotion candles I wouldn't sell to them so why sell them to someone with a lung disease.

LynnS

[Wildcrafter]

Ya know, really do you ask each and evey customer about health problems of the people in their home? Anyone who is on Oxygen is educated by their doctor/ home health that they cannot have flames around it...that being said we have all seen or heard of people who smoke while on oxygen. I don't know...I just think you are a candle maker, not a doctor and cannot be held responsible for your customer's health problems. Who are you to say if she should or should not burn a candle? You don't know how severe her condition is or even IF she is on oxygen. That's my thought on it. We are all responsible for our own health. It's not like we would have a health questionaire for each person wanting to purchase a candle from us. Just my opinion here of course and sounds like you have already taken care of this issue with the customer.

Jamie

Of course I don't ask each and every customer. But! If they volunteer certain health information, I can give them a heads up on whether my products would be helpful or harmful.

[joanncat18]

Of course I don't ask each and every customer. But! If they volunteer certain health information, I can give them a heads up on whether my products would be helpful or harmful.

True.

[LynnS]

UPDATE

I finally got some info back from him. Seems nice and sorta bending.

Here is the new info. He said his wife is NOT on oxygen yet. She does work and likes florals and why he chose Roses.She also likes lavender and lilac.

The fruit and vanillas are out.She hates both scents.They had a boarder that burned vanilla and they still can smell it.They are re-doing the house now(he works on it while she is at work).The paint and dust would bother her. He said he has a couple warmers and will get back with me on wickless.He said this might be a better idea.

The last thing he said was "I am working on keeping her with me as long as possible."Your personal interest has boosted my faith in people and lightened my load. Thanks

Now what do most of you feel?? He said wickless might be a better option than the wick.Said he could use one of the candles he ordered and just put on a warmer BUT I want to say WICKLESS only.No wick would be what I would sell. Still this is back to sorta where I started. Another decision/question???????

I know in workplaces people wear perfume and this can make people with lung problems sick.She is still working.

LynnS

[Wildcrafter]

Wickless. No question.