Mushrooms and Power Burning

[Spoonybard]

After LOTS of testing on and off for the past several months, I finally think I've hit the jackpot with my container/wax/wick combo. I've successfully burnt a handful of candles all the way down and am pleased with the results.

Now, here's the question:

How much of an issue is it when a candle develops large mushrooms during a powerburn? I have one going right now which, at the end of 4 hours (how long my test burns are) looked fine. Now, it's been 8 hours and I've got some serious shroom action -- HT is still great, MP is not too deep, jar temp is fine, and there is no soot. Should I be concerned with the shrooms? Furhtermore, when I do eventually blow it out and relight it, will the shrooms eventually fall off?

FYI... I'm using zinc wicks so I already know I'm behind the black ball when it comes to mushrooming anyway... but they are the only wick that seem to produce the least amount of soot, stay cool, while allowing me to single-wick my 3.75" diameter jar. I'm using a 50/50 parasoy blend.

TIA!!

Ryan

[rebeccajo99]

Mushrooms are the least of my concerns when I am burning my candles. My main concern is saftey and ht. If I do get a mushroom while test burning, I do try to wick up one to see if I can avoid the mushroom. However if ht and safety is compromised, then I just keep it at the original wick and not worry about it.

[Spoonybard]

Mushrooms are the least of my concerns when I am burning my candles. My main concern is saftey and ht. If I do get a mushroom while test burning, I do try to wick up one to see if I can avoid the mushroom. However if ht and safety is compromised, then I just keep it at the original wick and not worry about it.

For a power burn, would I pick off the shrooms and relight? What about not trimming the wick... since it's a zinc and doesn't self-trim?

[rebeccajo99]

I don't use zinc wicks, so I am not sure if you still want to or not. I use CD wicks and according to my supplier, they say they are almost self trimming (whatever that means )

When I power burn, I trim the wick to where it is supposed to be before I light (I plan on having the wick to 1/4 inch when I sell them so I don't risk not having the customer do that). I light and burn to the very end, never blowing it out, trimming the wick or removing the mushroom. I want to create the worst case customer and make sure my product is still safe.

[jenscandles]

When I power burn, I trim the wick to where it is supposed to be before I light (I plan on having the wick to 1/4 inch when I sell them so I don't risk not having the customer do that). I light and burn to the very end, never blowing it out, trimming the wick or removing the mushroom. I want to create the worst case customer and make sure my product is still safe.

If I read this correctly, it sounds like you also keep them burning overnight and if you're gone for the day. Is that right? If so, how do you make sure that "accidents" don't destroy your house?

ETA: The power burns I have done in years past, I've never had the nerve to keep them burning if I'm not in the house and awake.

[rebeccajo99]

I do keep them burning. When I plan my power burn, I make sure that I don't have to go anywhere. I never really thought about going to sleep. I just do. I have them burning on my stove and make sure there is nothing around it. The only reason that I do that is I know of somebody who does keep hers burning all day and all night. I do make sure that the end is while I'm awake so I can make sure it self exstinguishes.

[jenscandles]

thanks for that info!

Jen

[Candybee]

If your going to be a candlemaker or just love to burn them rule number one is:

NEVER LEAVE A CANDLE BURNING UNATTENDED!

Sorry but its never a good idea to leave a candle burning in your home when you are away or going to sleep.

Also-- a good candlemaker knows to leave a candleburning instructions label on the candle. And this happens to be one of the instructions that should go on your label.

[rebeccajo99]

I know that I shouldn't leave a candle burning unattended and I will have that on my warning lable when I do start selling. I just cannot test that knowing that there are people out there that will burn their candles unattended and while they are sleeping. As a candle maker we are supposed to make our candles safe for even those "stupid" candle burners. No, I'm not going to stick mine under my curtans to make sure my candles don't start them on fire, but I am going to make sure they are safe if they are burned from begginging to end without "blowing them out." Its a risk I'm willing to take to ensure the safty of my consumers. (even those that may accidently forget to blow theirs out before going to bed or leaving the house)

Just my opinion

[WillowBoo]

I can't even leave the house without unplugging all the outlets...I could never light a candle and leave!

[rebeccajo99]

I used to be like that until I read a post from Stella. It made me really think and re-evaluate my candles and how I test them. I now follow her testing standards (modified it a little to fit some things that I am also looking for) and do that. I will copy and paste what she wrote from that post for your referance about the power burn.

Once the candle passes the careful testing, then I do an abusive powerburn (burn from beginning to end without extinguishing, trimming, recentering the wick, etc.) to be sure the container doesn't heat up too much, the flame stays at a reasonable height, the candle produces little or no soot, or the sustainer base fails to self-extinguish at the height of the base (indicating the glue has failed allowing the wick to continue sucking liquid wax from below the top of the sustainer base opening) or becomes unstuck and wanders. I set the candle on a varnished wood surface to see if it damages it (violating the "place candle on a fire-resistant surface. Never place directly on furniture" rule.) I feel the container and make sure it doesn't burn my hand. Once the candle is completely liquid, I deliberately move it around (as in "never carry a lighted candle or move one with liquid wax") to see if the sustainer base comes loose and allows the wick to wander. In short, the powerburn is the abuse test to reassure me that even in the hands of the village idiot, the candle will perform reasonably safely (although I can't assure that the idiot won't set it under the drapes, where the cat will catch on fire, let their kids throw matches in it and light their hair on fire, etc.). If the container becomes too hot during the powerburn, I retest, wicking down one size. If the wick doesn't self-extinguish, or comes unstuck and wanders, I change the stuff I am using to stick it to the container (I don't worry about this one any more 'cause I learned my lesson and now use high-temp silicon gasket maker to stick on the sustainer bases).

This is taken from the following post http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79424&highlight=abusive+burn

[jenscandles]

Question to pillar makers: Do you also do a power burn test all the way down without extinguishing?

[Spoonybard]

What do those of you who use zinc wicks do regarding the mushrooms and the lack of self-trimming feature? I accidentally left one of my test burns going too long (6 hrs) and when I blew it out, it was a TORCH but I noticed that the amount of exposed became significant... so I can't see how a zinc wick could pass a rigourous powerburn such as > 12 hours without the flame being like 6" high!

Attached are some pics of a 12 hour burn:

Is this normal? Any thoughts?

[deb426]

I make my candles safe for reasonable stupidity but I refuse to be responsible for extreme stupidity. With that being said, I do trim my wicks during a power burn because I don't want to have to paint my ceilings every few months.

Deb

[hotmama2700]

I can't even leave the house without unplugging all the outlets...I could never light a candle and leave!

I try not to, but on several occasions I do forget. I come home and the house smells so good and I say I left a candle burning. One thing I have noticed about zinc wicks are they burn cooler than any other candle I have seen or used. I can actually put my hands around the rim of my jar and it does not burn me but I am getting a full melt and had been burning the candle for over 6 hours. As for outlets, I leave my tart burner plugged in while I am out all the time. Many of my customers do as well. I do not encourage this, but we are only human and I tend for forget to turn them off. I often check my tart burner cords and as long as they are not hot I leave them on. I use the warmers from OBI and my customers love them. I think they are safer than the the tin ones. A friend of mine lost her house because of a tin tart burner. She also had mine in there as well. The chief told her the fire started in her kitchen where her tin burner was at. Mine was in her bedroom. To this day she still leaves her tart burner on when she is out. She refuses to buy any tin ones though. She has eight burners in her house and she uses every one of them.

[Stella1952]

Some people unplug everything when they leave their homes (even their alarm clock? Microwave? Computer? Televisions?). Some folks will not even leave the room to pee without extinguishing a candle. To each his/her own... My gas hot water heater has a pilot light that burns all the time. So does my central gas heater. So far, I haven't had a house burn down from THOSE sources... yet. I can't prevent EVERY problem and there's no such thing as zero risk, either for me or for my customers.

I choose to go the extra mile when it comes to torture testing and I am creative in how I set up that testing. I accept the personal risk that goes with that turf. Others may have different standards and may not be willing to assume the extra risk involved.

jenscandles - Question to pillar makers: Do you also do a power burn test all the way down without extinguishing?

Yes, I do, depending on the diameter/size of the candle. If it's a 4"w X 6"h candle, it would take days and days to continuously burn it all the way down, so I extinguish after 12-18 hour test periods (well exceeding the recommended 4 hours) and I do not trim the wick before relighting.

Common sense has to prevail. Ideally, one would have a separate building in which they could pour their candles and a fireproof shed in which to test them. That is what separates professionals from amateurs. It is not impossible for small, home chandlers to produce products which meet or exceed high professional standards, but it does mean that the little guys have to try harder, assume more personal risk, be more creative in their testing solutions and pay closer attention to what they are doing. It ain't for everyone, ya know!

[chuck_35550]

Yes that looks fairly typical for a zinc wick, especially if the fo has a lot of vanilla in it. Some fos cause the wick to clog and not burn the wax efficiently and result in carbon build up. No, I don't think that would be safe for a power burn. That jar is gonna get real hot, sooty and unsafe. Zincs are supposed to be the coolest burning wicks and so use less fuel than others. I have my warning label and ask my customers to trim their wicks if they want their candle to last longer and be safer. Most of my candle/fo formulas do not produce large mushrooms but a few are heavy foody fos that have a ton of vanilla (pound cake) and the shrooms are terrible. My secretary power burns my candles nearly everyday. I walk by and inspect all through the day to see how the candle is doing. Try a cd or an LX and see what happens.

[topofmurrayhill]

Just some thoughts inspired by this thread...

I think if you can burn for 4 hours without mushrooms, you're doing pretty well. Expecting no mushrooms during a power burn of a container candle is probably unreasonable. Things eventually get ugly in one way or another.

There's some misconception about so-called self-trimming wicks. All wicks are self-trimming - including zinc. However, proper self-trimming in fragranced candles is pretty rare with any wick type. They almost always have to be trimmed before lighting and will eventually get too long during burning.

Getting self-trimming to work properly is something you have to design into the candle. It depends on the candlemaker, not the wick selection. It's never automatic and it's often not practical. Creating candles in which the flame height remains under control without manually trimming the wick imposes design constraints, including the composition of the candle mixture, the wick size and the candle diameter.

I've created unscented tapers, pillars and containers that could be burned indefinitely with the flame height remaining under control due to the self-trimming action of the wick. That includes zinc wicks. These candles don't have to be trimmed before lighting or during the burn. With fragranced candles, I've only done it with standard votives. In fact, I think it's a design necessity for the small votives because it's unreasonable to set a time limit on burning those. Mine can be burned from top to bottom in one session without mushrooms or tall flames. However, with most fragranced pillars and containers, a recommended burn time is necessary for practical purposes.

I do know someone who designed double-wicked containers that didn't have to be trimmed before lighting and that would burn for a pretty long time without getting out of control. Those candles used zinc wicks. Using two smaller wicks versus one large one helped the self-trimming effect.

One thing about zinc wicks though is that they will usually drop some carbon debris into the melt pool even in designs where they self-trim correctly. Cotton and paper core wicks can also self-trim and will sometimes do so with less debris.

[jaxonsmom]

I power burn only when I`m home all day. I light mine in the morning and let it go untill bedtime. I used to let mine go all night but stopped after a person I know lost thier home to a fire caused by a candle left burning all night( not one of mine).

[topofmurrayhill]

On the subject of power burning, the entire surface of the wax has been known to catch fire in container candles. It's probably one of the biggest dangers to test for, which might be worth factoring into the risk calculation if you leave them burning unattended.

[Von354]

I only power burn when I am home all day. I light up aroud 7:30 am and burn until around 11:00 pm. I do trim the wicks some. I just can't bring myself to burn my candles non stop. I too have to consider the safety of my children, husband, myself and my home.

I know that some consumers do the extreme burning.

I do put all the necessary warnings on my jars and have a large insurance policy for my business LLC. I can only put on my jars how to burn the candles properly. I do tell everyone to read the warning label and I have on the back of my business card more detailed burning instructions. How people burn them would probably make me cringe. I would never want someone to burn my candle and loose their home or a life. I do pray that it never happens.

However, I could own any type of business and there will always be risk with customers. I guess it's like selling alcohol. If someone purchases alcohol common sense should be used when consuming the product. It's against the law to drink then drive. But like we all know people will do whatever they choose. It's illegal to drink under the age of 21 but people do.

I just saw on the news a lady was drunk, on drugs and drove on an interstate in the wrong direction with her children and a relatives children. Killed herself, one of her children, the relatives children. Also, in another vehicle killed a father and son. One of her children is in critical condition.

Myself or my husband could never go to bed knowing a candle was burning in our home. However, everyone has an opinion on this. If burning while you are gone or during the night works for you and your family that is a personal choice.

*****Have you all been out looking at some candles in the stores that have wicks off center. I assume those are from a factory that might have a special room for testing. The problem is the employees and the inside quality checks failed and the candle shipped. I would never sell a candle with a wick that is too close to one side of a jar.

[WillowBoo]

oh boy...I have never heard of an entire wax surface of a candle catching on fire. What kind of ingredient would cause that? Too much Crisco or the like?

[topofmurrayhill]

oh boy...I have never heard of an entire wax surface of a candle catching on fire. What kind of ingredient would cause that? Too much Crisco or the like?

It's a known issue in the candle industry. There are people on this board who have had the experience. A small candle producer on another board wrote about it as well. It's not always the result of incompetence either. It's been known to crop up with candles that are designed and tested very conscientiously.

I can't name every factor that can lead to a candle catching fire. It can be a combination of things. A manufacturing error with the wax can cause it to have a lower flash point than expected. The addition of solvents and fragrance compounds in the FO lowers it further. The combination of container, wicking, and how the candle is burned generates heat for potential ignition. Candle soot is pretty flammable and I imagine even that could contribute if it builds up in the container.

The point is, unless your candle is designed to self-trim and maintain a consistent burn indefinitely, it's probably going to get somewhat ugly in a power burn. The point of doing it is to make sure that things don't get too ugly, including the possibility of the candle catching fire. If that does happen, you probably wanna be there to do something about it rather than coming back to find an empty blackened container - or worse.

[Stella1952]

What kind of ingredient would cause that?

Gasoline?

Just Kiddin' - I couldn't help myself! :laugh2:

Actually, if a candle builds up enough heat for whatever reason, the whole thing can flash & catch fire. We had a discussion about tins doing that once....

Here's one...

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66838

And here's another...

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58960

*super banana*This was an exploding glass container...

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63213

More hot containers and horror stories...

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26543

And one infamous spewing wickless candle, just for good measure...

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showpost.php?p=579826&postcount=14

All really good reasons to test stuff all the way down and pay attention while testing!

[chuck_35550]

I totally agree with Top on this subject and Stella too. There has to be reasonable limits to what you can expect out of a product with so many variables. We see daily how fo formulas change, wax batch inconsistancies and other quality issues challenge us to maintain a quality product. We've all had customers who tell us those horror stories about falling asleep and leaving a house full of candles burning. It is worriesome to say the least, but you can only do so much and then the consumer has take some responsibilty. By the way, where do most of you place your warning labels?