tempering or not tempering

[cybersix]

Hi all, I'm at my first experience with soy wax.

I read about the flaws of this wax, so I startet to temper it (if this is what I really did LOL).

But I also poured it without any particular treatment, just heat it, added fo and poured when slushy.

There's no difference in the finished candles.

I have no frosting (I don't use dyes), beautiful flat tops, some wet spots in both ways.

So soy wax doesn't always need tempering, I guess. I don't know what brand of wax I'm using. Distributor won't tell what wax is, he only told me it's pure soy without additives.

I mean, I'm happy not to having a lot of work to do, but after reading a lot on this board I had the idea that soy wax is ugly used as it is LOL!!

[Rachael]

Hey Cyber,

I use KYpure soy for container and have never tempered it .

I get nice tops as well when poured at the right temp as for being ugly that happens after you burn the candle and it sets back up * for me anyway*

As for frosting I would get that if I tried for a dark color but I have since gone to no dye in my containers.

[cybersix]

thank you Rachael,

I will keep on testing but from what I see I could use it as it is.

I never tried dyes in soy, one day or another I'll use some and see what happens!

I don't have sistematically ugly tops after burning them. Sometimes when tehy cool down they are fine, then after another burn I can see some flaws, then not.. all in the same candle. Weird!!

[Rachael]

I don't have sistematically ugly tops after burning them. Sometimes when tehy cool down they are fine, then after another burn I can see some flaws, then not.. all in the same candle. Weird!!

Absolutely ! LOL and then there are some that never look bad

It is just the nature of the beast But everyone I have given/sold candles to have never had a problem with that after I tell them that is just how soy is .

But like I said I never temper it, I heat to the required temp then pour at the required temp and move on

But I have to say since going dye free my wicking life is so much easier

[cybersix]

Absolutely ! LOL and then there are some that never look bad

It is just the nature of the beast But everyone I have given/sold candles to have never had a problem with that after I tell them that is just how soy is .

But like I said I never temper it, I heat to the required temp then pour at the required temp and move on

But I have to say since going dye free my wicking life is so much easier

well this is my debut on soy candles. If I'll be fast enough in testing I could very well be the first italian candlemaker who makes soy candles, so really I don't think ppl is already used to the look of soy.

I'm having hard time with wicks well maybe it's just the way soy is.. I'm trying to wick a 3" tumbler and an LX28 is barely making it! Don't wanna think using dye!

[Wendy Shoofitz]

Since tempering is something new that someone made up, probably only that person can help.

[Rachael]

For my 3" diameter containers I used the LX18 which is said to be good for 3.5" to 4" .But I have since switched to HTP .

There will be a little left on the sides which catches up as the candle burns down .

From what I have read unless it says different the recommended container size for wicks is generally for paraffin wax and you must go up one size if you use soy or veggie or even Beeswax, although more than likely higher still for Beeswax. been there done that got frustrated switch to soy

HTH

[TraciS]

While I realize that we all have our methods that we think work best for us, if I had to heat, cool, heat, cool, blah, blah, blah just to make a decent candle...I would be switching waxes. I changed wax just this year and tried 4 before I found the one I use now and the rest of the remaining cases are used for clamshells only until they are gone.

Course, my opinion is based on running a business. If it was just a hobby, I suppose it might be fun to be jumping through hoops to make a wax perfect. I just pour candles as simply and easily as I can.

[cybersix]

For my 3" diameter containers I used the LX18 which is said to be good for 3.5" to 4" .But I have since switched to HTP .

There will be a little left on the sides which catches up as the candle burns down .

From what I have read unless it says different the recommended container size for wicks is generally for paraffin wax and you must go up one size if you use soy or veggie or even Beeswax, although more than likely higher still for Beeswax. been there done that got frustrated switch to soy

HTH

lx18? Or is it a typo, did u mean 28? I hope so, or my wax is a sludge monster LOL!!

[Meridith]

I've been making soy candles for 5 years and I've never tempered my wax nor have I heard of this phenomenon until fairly recently. This is the only board I've read about it. Not even my supplier has ever recommended it. While it might help, I just don't have time to be fooling with this. But we all have different ways of doing stuff and what works for one, might not work for another.

[cybersix]

While I realize that we all have our methods that we think work best for us, if I had to heat, cool, heat, cool, blah, blah, blah just to make a decent candle...I would be switching waxes. I changed wax just this year and tried 4 before I found the one I use now and the rest of the remaining cases are used for clamshells only until they are gone.

Course, my opinion is based on running a business. If it was just a hobby, I suppose it might be fun to be jumping through hoops to make a wax perfect. I just pour candles as simply and easily as I can.

Traci, I'm with you on this.

But I was ready to surrender because I can buy just one type of soy wax. My customer wanted soy wax. So, if the wax I buy should need to be tempered or having something else done, I'd just have to do it.

I feel a bit better now seeing no differences in the two methods! I will be faster when making candles, and yes for a business it's important!

[Rachael]

Nope no typo and I printed it right off the website but that was when I first started making candles and havent gone back to see if it had changed as I have switch to using HTP wicks and they work for me so I stick with them.

Having to wait to pour at around 100 is torure enough if I had to do it twice or what ever for each batch of candles I know I would go nuts and say the heck with it .

[cybersix]

Nope no typo and I printed it right off the website but that was when I first started making candles and havent gone back to see if it had changed as I have switch to using HTP wicks and they work for me so I stick with them.

Having to wait to pour at around 100 is torure enough if I had to do it twice or what ever for each batch of candles I know I would go nuts and say the heck with it .

oh ok!

I want to try other wicks, so I havent decide yet if I'll be using lxs or something else!

[Guest LightofDawn]

I tried to use the tempering method but it was just to time consuming for me.

During testing I noticed that if I had a soy candle (C3) that I had to remelt and repour it always looked and behaved better the second time around. So now I just mix up my batch in a pour pot, let it cool and cure for a couple of days, remelt and repour and they turn out much better.

I don't know what method you would call it, but it seems to work for now.

[realmarcha]

I have been creating soy candles for 7 years now and have never tempered my wax(es). Of course, when I read it on this board, I did try it, but saw NO difference other than more work. HTH

[BeagleBaby]

[quote=TraciS;672570 I changed wax just this year and tried 4 before I found the one I use now.

TraciS . . What waxes have you tried? What were the pros and cons of them? What wax did you settle on and why.

It's always nice to hear other peoples results on wax. When you lump all the results together, if there are to many cons, you can decide if you really want to test it or not.

[Stella1952]

With apologies to the OP,

I am soooooo sick of this question. This forum HAS search tools and this subject has been discussed positively to DEATH.

Wendy (is that your real name, or one of your many identities here?):

No one here invented tempering! Whoever DID is long dead. It is NOT a NEW technique in the world of oleoscience and vegetable oils. It's obviously news to you, but that's because you apparently have not read the previous discussions nor followed any of the links provided over and over again.

If ANY of you who post about tempering and have never read about it, tried it nor heard of it nor heard ANY manufacturer recommend it, then you wouldn't really KNOW whether tempering is a good thing or not, would you?

One mo' time:

Here's a link to where JASON from GOLDEN BRANDS recommended it and briefly told about how it works... I know Meridith was around when this link began... in fact, she POSTED in the thread where it was discussed...

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?p=197532post197532

I don't think EcoSoy would have talked about the polymorphic nature of soy wax if it were fiction...

http://www.ngiwax.com/soy-wax-and-polymorphism-what

We have repeatedly referenced oleoscience (those are the folks who bring you smooth margarine and USA) as a parallel source for understanding issues of soy oil based waxes, but some people pretend that this kind of discussion is "crazy" or an invention of a wacko...

Me? What I do doesn't matter - I have been repeatedly attacked here for sharing what I have learned, backed up by expert links and personal photos. I temper soy wax and do so in a manner that does NOT cost me any more labor $ or time than not tempering.

For some of you who have huge melters and heat and reheat, you may be tempering and not even know it! :rolleyes2

Let me be clear: Tempering is NOT a panacea, which I have said REPEATEDLY. It is ONE TOOL one can use to help REDUCE certain soy wax issues. If YOU don't ever have any problems with those issues, don't care if your candles are frosted or cauliflowered, etc., then you probably would not find tempering to be of any use to you. After all, making candles is just as easy as melt the wax, pour and stick a wick in, right? :rolleyes2

[theresa t]

Normally I don't say much but, wasn't the op referring to their experiences with soy as far as this technique goes rather than anything else?

I had never heard of tempering wax either until it was brought up on this board recently and I say recently because that is when I first read anything on it. I only use soy wax and I will say that I have never had the issues brought up when tempering is not done whether I use dyes or not. I do care what my candles look like, how they burn, the scent throw both hot and cold, etc. For this reason I use this board and some others to find out what others experience when they try different things. Not to mention the reason I have tested, tested, tested and tested more to see how a wax will perform for me and what I make.

I have always understood that these boards were for information to be passed on to others about what they find with waxes, wicks, scents and anything else that goes along with what we make. I agree, there is the search feature but I failed to see where the op was asking anything rather they were sharing what they found when trying both methods. JMO....may not be worth much but voiced it anyway.

[Judy, USMC]

I'm working with CB-135. Never had an issue with frosting or cauliflower - until I checked some old testers a couple of months after they were poured. The bloom was quite evident and the cauliflower had expanded the wax so much that it reached and almost covered the top of the wick - a 1/4 inch rise.

So after researching I "discovered" the tempering and was very pleased with the results. I've found Top of Murray Hill and Stella's comments very helpful. No, I didn't see any immediate difference in the candles either because they all looked great when they were first poured. But it has improved the "shelf life" considerably.

Everyone has their own wax preference and different waxes have different characteristics. Some are successful with additives, others have different pouring methods based ontemperature or wax consistency. IMO, if you are having any problems, it's always worth making a tester to see how it works for you.

[TraciS]

I tried EZ Soy - mottled, stringy tops and weird seepage at 6% in scent that were not heavy. Frosting to a level that was crazy with color. Good scent throw.

KY w/o cottonseed - rough tops that got way too cottage cheesy after burning when setting up again. Frosting to a level that I was not comfortable when using color. Good scent throw.

KY w/cottonseed - tops better but more frosting than I wanted. Tried mixing with Perfect Blend but it was actually more work than I wanted to do and my candles still frosted although they set up very nicely. Great scent throw.

EcoSoya CB Adv - loved the way the candles set up and reset up after burning but scent throw was not acceptable.

I settled on 464 as I can pour at 135 consistently and get smooth tops and only a slightly rough top when they reset up after burning in diameters of 3" or more. There is very little frost but I have finally dropped the color so it is rarely noticeable. Scent throw is great. Melt point is low so it is tough to ship in July & August but I typically use those months to build for fall and do retail only during those months.

Before that I used Joy, Joy w/EZ Soy blend and even tried Superior Soy from some supplier I can't remember which also frosted.

Before that I used 5766 paraffin and I still use 4794 for votives, electrics and big floating stars.

My choice was based on ease of quantity production of a smooth, creamy candle with minimal frost and maximum scent throw both cold and hot.

Hope this is the type of info you were asking for but if you need any additional info, just holler

T

[quote name=TraciS;672570 I changed wax just this year and tried 4 before I found the one I use now.

TraciS . . What waxes have you tried? What were the pros and cons of them? What wax did you settle on and why.

It's always nice to hear other peoples results on wax. When you lump all the results together' date=' if there are to many cons, you can decide if you really want to test it or not.

[BeagleBaby]

TraciS . . Yes, thats what I was looking for. I also used the Ezsoy for awhile, hated the frosting so mixed it with paraffin. Did ok that way. I tried the CB135 Adv and also hated it. I have almost the whole 10# bag here, doubt that I'll ever use it. There was no cold throw with it and very little hot.

I use the Nature Wax C3 now. I used to mix it with J223, but am now switching to all soy. I really like the C3 since I learned to temper the wax and I also add a tsp coconut oil per #.

The one thing I found that really maked the biggest difference is putting them is a warm oven to cool (oven shut off of course).

I am getting a new refridgerator soon and am taking the old one down to my shop, I can fit alot of candles in there to cool.

Thanks to everyone for all the informative posts on this board.

[Meridith]

With apologies to the OP,

I am soooooo sick of this question. This forum HAS search tools and this subject has been discussed positively to DEATH.

Wendy (is that your real name, or one of your many identities here?):

No one here invented tempering! Whoever DID is long dead. It is NOT a NEW technique in the world of oleoscience and vegetable oils. It's obviously news to you, but that's because you apparently have not read the previous discussions nor followed any of the links provided over and over again.

If ANY of you who post about tempering and have never read about it, tried it nor heard of it nor heard ANY manufacturer recommend it, then you wouldn't really KNOW whether tempering is a good thing or not, would you?

One mo' time:

Here's a link to where JASON from GOLDEN BRANDS recommended it and briefly told about how it works... I know Meridith was around when this link began... in fact, she POSTED in the thread where it was discussed...

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?p=197532post197532

I don't think EcoSoy would have talked about the polymorphic nature of soy wax if it were fiction...

http://www.ngiwax.com/soy-wax-and-polymorphism-what

We have repeatedly referenced oleoscience (those are the folks who bring you smooth margarine and USA) as a parallel source for understanding issues of soy oil based waxes, but some people pretend that this kind of discussion is "crazy" or an invention of a wacko...

Me? What I do doesn't matter - I have been repeatedly attacked here for sharing what I have learned, backed up by expert links and personal photos. I temper soy wax and do so in a manner that does NOT cost me any more labor $ or time than not tempering.

For some of you who have huge melters and heat and reheat, you may be tempering and not even know it! :rolleyes2

Let me be clear: Tempering is NOT a panacea, which I have said REPEATEDLY. It is ONE TOOL one can use to help REDUCE certain soy wax issues. If YOU don't ever have any problems with those issues, don't care if your candles are frosted or cauliflowered, etc., then you probably would not find tempering to be of any use to you. After all, making candles is just as easy as melt the wax, pour and stick a wick in, right? :rolleyes2

Yeah so I posted about how fast everyone was receiving free samples from GF in the beginning of this thread. And your point is??

If tempering works for you, good for you. I don't understand why it bothers you so much when others don't temper or don't see a difference if they do. Why do you care what others think?

[Circle]

I have just finished testing GB464 and found that tempering didn't work (I remelted wax that I had poured about 6 months ago and repoured candles from it) I find the tops lovely, do get the odd crack which the heatgun sorts out, but in general they look good even after burning and setting up again. Dye definately makes a difference to frosting, so I prefer dye free. With regards wick, I have found (other than shrooms) an RRD 50 works in the 3" and 31/2" containers.

[carol k]

i haven't tempered, never gonna, waste of time. if you are smart enough to figure out the secret of gb415 you don't need to go to all the extra work. hell, i make pure soy black, black candles with no frosting. now if i had a digital camera that worked & was smart enough to put a pic in the gallery i'd show ya. people don't give two hoot how a candle looks just as long as it smells their houses up.

[cybersix]

I'm sorry this thread brought some bitterness (if this is a word!).

I didn't want to say anything about tempering being useful or not, I was just sharing one thought, and I did tell that I'm at my first experience.

I don't have soy candles 6 months old so I really don't know if the cauliflower or frost, for now.

My immediate thought was that I had no effects in how candles appears. I will put aside some and check back in some month.

It was just a blah blah talking with friends.

Here every people know(or will learn) how to work with the wax they use, and I will do the same.

I was not saying tempering is bad. Nor that it isn't necessary.

So I apologize if I did offend someone.

And I read the threads about tempering. I read a lot, believe it or not, my question wasn't "how do you do it", but it was about the result.

If this has to become a rude thread we can leave it as it is now, thanks to everyone who wanted to share a thought.