Promoting Going Green

[HeavenScentU]

Does anyone promote soy candles as "Green"? I want to jump on the band wagon to get the market on the word Green, but I am stuck. I know our candles are biodegradable, blah, blah. But what else is there???

[SliverOfWax]

Just my humble opinion, but that's why a lot of people, myself definitely included, don't pay the slightest bit of attention to the green movement. It's comprised of a lot of people wanting to jump on the bandwagon who haven't done the slightest bit of research and don't seem to realize that global warming and all the hoopla associated with it is nothing more than a phase the earth goes through.

If you're merely wanting to profit without knowing what it is, you aren't promoting your products honestly. If you really, truly believe in the green movement, you will do your research and find your audience.

Just remember that for every scientific argument for it, there is an equally forceful one against it.

[soapmom25]

My perception of "green" is to waste less and recycle more, so unless you can recycle the wax and/or container I think it would be hard to call candles *green*

If that IS something you offer and plan to encourage (refilling/recycling the container) then perhaps that can be your selling point!

[Darbla]

Tell them they can use the candles for light at night. Save electricity.

[HeavenScentU]

After watching Oprah and seeing Sandra Bullock talk about her candles she is promoting it really made me wonder what was new about soy. I was wondering how it can be a green product. But it really sounded like a lot of hoopla and where someone can make alot of money. I was wondering if Green was the way soy candles can be promoted. I tried the refilling containers and that was way too much work on my part, but that was paraffin not soy. Maybe I will come up with something, I was just wondering what was other fellow candlemakers take on green. How about light a candle save a lightbulb!

[elfcat]

There is more to being green then just global warming. I agree with sliverofwax that it is a natural phase our planet goes through, however we have caused a lot of pollution to this planet that we have to live with. There is nothing wrong with wanting to reduce the impact we have on the planet by making better choices in the products we use and how they affect our environment. I have incorporated a lot of "green" products and ways into my life not because of global warming but because I do believe that we have greatly impacted the safety of our water that we depend on and the air we breath. We do need those things to live.

On a business perspective, (I am assuming you want to do business honestly) if you want to market something as "green" then you need to make sure that you understand what it really means so that you can market them honestly. From your FO's to your wicks and dyes. People are going to want to know how each of these items are "green". Some people will go as far as to want to know how the soy used is grown and processed so that it is considered a truly "green" product. Frankly, I'm not sure that is possible. Unless you grow it yourself you just don't know.

[HeavenScentU]

Here is one candle website that I was browsing through and after reading I am not finding why the candle is Green. www.simplinature.com

[Stella1952]

Simply understanding how soy wax is made changes its shade from green to something a whole lot darker.

First, does any soy wax certify that the soy oil (and any other veggie oils) used in producing the wax is from 100% US grown soybeans and refined and hydrogenated at US factories?

Second, the process of separating soybean oil from the beans is accomplished by the use of the petroleum-derived chemical, hexane.

Third, heat is required to separate the oil. The heat is NOT derived from solar power or hydrogen power, but from regular petroleum-based fuels.

Fourth, the oil must be super-hydrogenated. Again, a process that requires the use of heat and other substances with a large carbon footprint.

I'm quitting there because I think that is quite enough before we get into the process of converting the globs of superhydrogenated wax into flakes, packaging it in plastic, packing it into cardboard cartons composed of the regular tree-based paper products, shipping via petroleum-based shipping methods (trucks, tankers, airplanes...) etc. etc. Anyone who thinks they are depriving petroleum companies of revenue by choosing soy-based waxes needs to research who the companies behind their product are and who these companies are subsidiaries of...

SOY WAX IS NOT GREEN!!! Never has been, never will be. It is a marketing HOAX targeted at an uneducated market of people who do not scratch beyond the hype printed on labels to discover the truth behind a product! The emperor has no clothes, folks!! ANYONE who touts soy-based wax products (or any veggie wax products) as "green" on their websites, labels or product information is perpetrating a marketing lie upon the public.

BTW, the smoke from burning soy products - yes, I said smoke! Duh, where there's fire there's what? - is also composed of atmospheric clotting carbon-based compounds (CO2, CO - the C stands for CARBON). Just because one cannot SEE black smoke does not mean that it doesn't exist!! It just means that it isn't BLACK!

FOs of course have a huge carbon footprint, but don't think that EOs don't... ummm, where are most EOs manufactured? Overseas? How did they get here? Via petroleum based shipping methods? How was the heat needed to create the steam used to separate the oils created?

Paraffin, BTW, is a natural by-product of petroleum refining. If it were not used for something, it would simply be a waste product. One MIGHT argue that by finding a good use for it, we are recycling.

Marketing any candle as GREEN is my first "flag" to boycott the product because anyone who does market them as green is lying.

I'm not EVEN gonna get started on "all-natural"...

I manufacture veggie wax candles only. I use that medium because I like it and for no loftier reason. If I make a good product, I don't NEED to "sell" its ingredients - it is a good product based on how well it functions as a candle. Before there were veggie based waxes, most chandlers used paraffin. The paraffin manufacturers did not need to tout how much more "PURE" or "ALL-NATURAL" or "GREEN" their candles were than their competitors! That is a bogus marketing strategy in this industry and the sooner it is exposed as a HYPE, the better.

[Tereasa]

I'm having a hard time with you wanting to go green because it might make you some money. People who care about green... who truly care about it, and not just the bandwagon aspect... are almost fanatical. If you're in it for the money, you will be sniffed out and subsequently overlooked by them. It's a way of life for some people, and shouldn't be approached, in any way, as a way to make money.

[patka]

I agree with what Stella said, one more thing, all soy wax available on the US market is manufactured from soybeans that were grown using genetically modified crops. The impact of genetically modified crops on the environment is potentially disastrous, I don't believe for this alone, soy candles can be honestly marketed as green.

[Stella1952]

People who care about green... who truly care about it, and not just the bandwagon aspect... are almost fanatical.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

all soy wax available on the US market is manufactured from soybeans that were grown using genetically modified crops

You are correct in saying that nearly 100% of soybeans grown in the US are GMO. However, there is a manufacturer which I have NOT been able to locate, whose supplier(s) claim that their "organic" product is grown from non-GMO soy... Would need more than that to believe, but just wanted to be fair. Also, since there is NO protein in soy oil (protein is where the genetic material resides), GMO or non-GMO should not be of significance in soy wax except as a peripheral issue. I'd worry more about my tofu than my soy wax.

[Stella1952]

Here is one candle website that I was browsing through and after reading I am not finding why the candle is Green. www.simplinature.com

I do not like to criticize the business sites of others. :lipsrseal Applying critical thinking to the descriptive content of a website generally tells the story.

When someone tells me that their melted candle wax rubs into their skin like a lotion, the first thing that pops to my mind is: So does used transmission fluid. And urine. The statement means absolutely nothing important to candles.

A company can promote themselves as a "green" company if their production and office procedures, etc. adopt more ecologically friendly methods. They should readily tell you exactly WHAT all is "green" about their company and/or products.

For example (but certainly not limited to...):

• Using kenaf or hemp paper instead of recycled tree-pulp paper

• Using solar or wind power for powering their manufacturing plant.

• Having a local rather than global market

• Using collected rain water rather than potable drinking water for their manufacturing and company use

• Doing business by daylight eliminating much of the need for electric lighting

• Turning office equipment off except when in use

• Using as little packaging as possible and only using recycled or biodegradable packing materials

[ForHisGlory]

When someone tells me that their melted candle wax rubs into their skin like a lotion, the first thing that pops to my mind is: So does used transmission fluid. And urine. The statement means absolutely nothing important to candles.

:laugh2::laugh2:

[Meridith]

I do not like to criticize the business sites of others. :lipsrseal Applying critical thinking to the descriptive content of a website generally tells the story.

When someone tells me that their melted candle wax rubs into their skin like a lotion, the first thing that pops to my mind is: So does used transmission fluid. And urine. The statement means absolutely nothing important to candles.

That is an excellent analogy.

[Tereasa]

Good one, Stella!

[HeavenScentU]

True Stella, but I don't think people really understand what "Going Green" really means. After watching Oprah I was probably even more confused about the ideas presented. But I thought I better ask. I thought I was missing something about Soy.

[patka]

You are correct in saying that nearly 100% of soybeans grown in the US are GMO. However, there is a manufacturer which I have NOT been able to locate, whose supplier(s) claim that their "organic" product is grown from non-GMO soy... Would need more than that to believe, but just wanted to be fair.

Stella, you are absolutely correct! There IS a company, called Lumia organics, link below:

http://www.greenpeople.org/webpage.cfm?memid=16871&pmtlevel=0&linkpage=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elumia%2Eus

They sell candles made with wax from organically (therefore non-gmo) soybeans. They actually partner with some farmers to grow the organic beans for them. I had not thought of them, since they are not a wax supplier. To my knowledge, they purchase the oil only for their candle making. I believe they are a genuine company and their candle is about as green as a soy candle can be.

I meant to say that the soywax that is available from suppliers is from nearly 100% GMO beans.

Also, since there is NO protein in soy oil (protein is where the genetic material resides), GMO or non-GMO should not be of significance in soy wax except as a peripheral issue. I'd worry more about my tofu than my soy wax.

I think these are two different issues. One is the issue of personal health. I am not worried burning GMO soy candle would adversely affect my health, and I also worry about my tofu more in that respect.

But buying a GMO product means supporting GMO farming. In my opinion, GMO farming has potentially disastrous effect on the environment. So does pollution, but pollution can be (up to a certain point) reversed. Supporting GMO farming means more land for GMO crops and less land for non-gmo crops. Because of unpreventable crosspolination between those two it could happen (and is likely to happen if we continue with planting more and more gmo crops as we have been) that there could come one day that there will be no unaltered edible plant left on this planet and all we will have left is GMO plants. Then, when the scientists find that the GMO plants are not all that healthy to eat, it could be all that is left.

I am not trying to be gloomy, just want to explain why I choose to avoid GMO materials, even if they are not for eating.

[SliverOfWax]

Paraffin, BTW, is a natural by-product of petroleum refining. If it were not used for something, it would simply be a waste product. One MIGHT argue that by finding a good use for it, we are recycling.

Absolutely true and a fact long-time paraffin users have known and giggled about for a long time.

You might as well use it in candles as throw it out. True recycling is to find another use for something. Go, paraffin! lol

Obviously, Sandra Bullock and Oprah are promoting, not conserving or recycling. That shouldn't come as any big surprise.

The whole thing is just so much bs. But if it makes you feel good, by all means latch on to it. There are plenty of people who will become your customers because of it. Problem is, they aren't doing a darned thing to save us from total destruction!

[VerticallyEnhanced]

When someone tells me that their melted candle wax rubs into their skin like a lotion, the first thing that pops to my mind is: So does used transmission fluid. And urine. The statement means absolutely nothing important to candles.

Damn I wish I had that this weekend! There was a soy candle maker at a show promoting her candles as such. The best part? They were in balmoral type jars and she touted "triple scenting" AND was inviting people who walked by to stick their hand in her lit jar (Kid you not...I saw a mother let her child do it because "it was not hot wax."). I forgot to mention the two inch flame. When I asked her about it she said it was okay because she only used skin safe oils. Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!

[Carriegsxr6]

going green can mean a lot of things. organic, recycle, reuse, natural, etc.

i suppose if you make your candles in recycled or recycable jars, that could be a start. Or use soybean or vegetable wax that is made with organic soybeans or vegetables.

[Stella1952]

When I asked her about it she said it was okay because she only used skin safe oils.

Yeah, but in what concentraton? Generally the "normal" 1 oz. pp is a lot more than what's recommended for skin use, let alone if someone is "triple scenting," whatevertheheck THAT means...:rolleyes2

But buying a GMO product means supporting GMO farming. In my opinion, GMO farming has potentially disastrous effect on the environment.

Patka, just to educate myself more on the GMO - non-GMO issue, I did some Googling last night and it was SCARY!! I totally agree that this is a practice which should be boycotted whenever possible!! Unfortunately, the availability of non-GMO soy wax is virtually non-existent. The only supplier that I know of who touts an "organic" veggie wax is Swan's (mfg. by Accusoy) and that one supplier with two locations on the west coast isn't gonna cut the mustard!

I wonder how those Lumia folks super hydrogenate their organic soybean oil into wax... I have no idea of what that looks like, in terms of equipment needed, etc.

Carrie, recycled containers would be great except that one cannot guarantee their worthiness to resist heat cracking/shattering if they are not new. Certainly the containers could be recycled by the consumer for another use, but that's on THEIR end of things and not on the manufacturing end.

I am not aware of ANY Certified Organic soy wax and only one source, nationally, of veggie wax that is made from three CO ingredients (interestingly enough, the coveted USDA Organic logo does not appear in Swan's product description nor on the Accusoy site - improper use of this logo carries a hefty $10,000 fine). The problem is that people THINK because veggie wax comes from a plant which is a renewable resource, it's "green." Simply using some Certified Organic ingredients, a certification devised for the FOOD industry, does not mean that the end-product can be considered "green" because "green" ALSO means not leaving a heavy carbon footprint in its manufacture... What little one gains by using a renewable resource is quickly lost in converting that plant into wax and then into a candle, thus my earlier statement that no commercially available soy wax can be considered truly "green." This is marketing hype.

[CareBear]

nicely stated on both topics, Stella. I highly doubt her "skin safe" FOs are cleared for use at 6% or likely higher for leave on products.

And "green" - yea, that's a big picture word IMO

[VerticallyEnhanced]

Yeah, but in what concentraton? Generally the "normal" 1 oz. pp is a lot more than what's recommended for skin use, let alone if someone is "triple scenting," whatevertheheck THAT means...:rolleyes2

Hence the "yikes" at the end of my post. What is so funny is that when I asked her about the percentage of oil used she got the deer in the headlights look. She again said they are triple scented and so I said, "So they are higher than 1%, which really is the absolute max you should have people put on their skin." She said she was not sure what percentage but it was "safe." That is when I realized she did not know what she was talking about. I get so frustrated with people who not only make scary/false claims but when they don't know crap about their OWN product, it irks me to no end.

[HeavenScentU]

The biggest problem is people are eating it up. They get a candle that produces a nice aroma in the air and works as a lotion. It is just crap.

[MissMary]

This might stir the pot, but needs to be said - the mind can be fooled into thinking that there is a lotion on the body, when it is doing nothing to nourish your body.

If you hear the word lotion and there's a film left on your body, this is what makes it soft... the hot wax, then you get a filmy residue and think "hey, lotion!"

Paraffin will do it too. (Paraffin spa hand treatments anyone? Been around for YEARS.) It's the HEAT of what's being poured on. It somewhat... umm... trying to think of the words properly, I guess scalds the dead skin off of you and when the wax dries, or is washed off after rubbed it... it pulls it off with it.