Pitifully poor hot sent throw

[JimC]

I am a new candle maker. I have all of the normal problems under control ( even wicking ) except for one.....Hot Sent Throw. I am using a 50/50 blend of J223 and IGI 4786 wax. I get a clean burning 1/4 to 1/2 inch melt pool. I have tried a total of 37 FO's from three different suppliers. Cold sent throw of a number of these samples was good to excellent. Hot sent throws from all the samples ranged from fair to almost non existant. I had a second opinion that agreed with mine. I test in a rather large room; however, before I attemt to sell any I want the sent to fill a large room. I did also try some of them in a very small room with the same results. I add the FO around 165 to 170 degrees, stir for at least 2-3 minutes and pour at 155 to 160 degrees within 15 minutes of adding FO. One thing that concerns me is the accuracy of my thermometers. I have 6 of them... two glass candy type, three bi-metal dial type and one bi-metal digital. Depending upon the depth of the wax being measured, there is as much as a 15 degree difference between the six of them. I am not sure what I am doing wrong. Any assistance would be appreciated.

[sharyl55]

Jim, not sure how much help this will be but I would recommend going with the digital thermometer and forgetting the others. If you are getting that much variation between thermometers you really don't have a consistent pour temp.

And I would recommend trying Peaks FOs. They have the best hot and cold scent throw that I have found. You can get a sample pack and compare Peaks to what you are currently using. you didn;t say how much FO you are adding pp. Maybe you need to up it to a 6% load (1 oz pp) if you are usinf less.

Do you add vybar? Too much vybar can binds you FO to the wax and reduce the scent throw. If you are using vybar try a batch of candles without it and see if that helps.

And you know if you make any changes you need to retest right??

[bugsb1]

This is the same blend I use, just a few questions, first one is what percentage of FO are you using per pound (Oz per pound). I found that with this most often I'm using 1.5 oz per pound. Secondly, sometimes where you get the FO's from can make a difference. Some place can and will dilute their FO's.

[Sharon in PA]

Hi Jim,

I would like to also add that we had MUCH more succcess w/ our hot throw when we started using a hotter burning wick. I am not familiar w/ the IGI wax that you use but I use a blend that is mainly J223, and switched from zinc wicks to Heinz CD's for most of my FO's with a much better hot throw.

I add FO, and pour at basically the same temps as you do.

Just a thought! Good luck!

[Sherie]

I have to agree with Sharon on that one too Jim! I've been using J223 for a few years now. I also switched to CD's and love them. I get a great hot throw. I usually use 1 oz/ppw and add it between 160-165 and pour between 155-160. So, we are on the same plane as far as temps.

[jillgunter]

I was told to add FO at 180 for it to bind well with the wax. I always have a great hot/cold throw. I would make sure you are using at least 1 oz per pound of wax. That could be problem. I started out using just a little cause I couldnt imagine putting that much oil in lol.

[JimC]

Thanks for your inputs. I did forget to mention that I tried 6% and 8% FO loads and I do not use any additives. Early on I was testing without any fragrance. I am currently using LX wicks. I tried zinc....too many big mushrooms and soot. I tried CDs...a little sooty. I tried HTPs. The LXs seemed to have the nicest and cleanest flame. Just yesturday I discovered how to handle the HTP wick curl. ( the curl places the end of the wick in the hottest part of the flame thus helping to eliminate mushrooms and self trim the wick: however, it also moves the flame off center thus moving the melt pool off center ). I discovered how to determine which way the wick will curl. So if I place the wick 1/4 inch off center and have the wick curl toward the center, I can place the flame and melt pool in the center of the jar. I do not know which wick burns hotter.... LX, CD or HTP.

[RobinInOR]

CDs are similar in construction to HTPs, and they burn "hotter" for their size than LXs. I use LXs in jars... Never tried 4786, but I did test J223 and had problems with throw as well.

Hot throw is tough - you've got all the usual variables, plus you're throwing in flame and heat. Most of the scent is going to come from the melt pool - the fragrance molecules do have to end up in the air and travel to reach your nose So that's why the "more heat" helps - besides releasing the fragrance, it creates air currents to help move everything around.

We can all understand your frustration

[Pam W]

I discovered how to determine which way the wick will curl. QUOTE]

Would you like to share this discovery?

[JacquiO]

Hi JimC,

This may seem like a silly question, but I didn't notice any mention of this from the other replies. How long did you wait to test burn your candles after pouring them?

Scented candles need a chance to cure. It usually takes about two weeks before you will experience a strong hot scent throw. If you burned your candles just a day or two after they completely cooled you probably didn't get a very impressive scent throw. Wait a couple weeks and burn them again. Please let us know if you smell a difference.

Joyous Candle Making,

JacquiO

[JimC]

Hi PamW,

If you look real close at the flat sides of the HTP wick, you can see a herring bone like pattern. On one side the pattern points up. On the other side the pattern points down. When lit the wick will curl toward the side of the wick that the pattern points up. I usually have to use a magnifing glass. Some times the wax coating on the wick is a little thick and you may have to scrape a little of this wax off to see the pattern. I have only tested this theory about a dozen times; however it has worked this way every time.

[Pam W]

Thanks for sharing. I'll give it a try.

[Kaybee23]

This is true. It looks like an upward "V" on one side and a downward "V" on the other side. The wick will burn towards the downward "V". I think it depends on where you buy the wicks from as to how much coating it has on it. The ones I get locally are easy to determine, but I have bought some elsewhere where the coating is so thick, the only way to know is to scrape a little off.

[topofmurrayhill]

I am using a 50/50 blend of J223 and IGI 4786 wax.

I have to question why you would mix those two products.

Each of those is itself a proprietary blend of unknown substances. Since the two products in question have quite different properties, they probably have rather different ingredients, so the combined recipe might be bizarre. It could contain several different paraffins, micro waxes, petrolatum, stearic, polymers and heaven knows what.

If you don't like any of the container blends on the market, isn't it more sensible (not to mention educational in terms of advancing your expertise) to make your own blend out of known ingredients?

I don't know whether this could have any bearing on your hot throw issue, but unfortunately you can't eliminate that variable because you don't really know the properties of the wax you're using -- you have to consider it along with all the other possibilities. Have you tried making a candle out of either of the two blends alone to see how the hot throw is?

Keep in mind that candle material is NOT the sum of its parts. It's a much more subtle and complicated interaction than that. Just for instance, you could add an oil binder to a wax formulation in order to cure a pillar that sweats, and under some circumstances have it sweat even more profusely. Thus I doubt you could really predict all the effects of mixing two container blends together. -A

[GirlWithTheCurl]

I have to question why you would mix those two products.

Echoing my thoughts exactly...JimC, what is your basis for this combination?

[JimC]

Well, actually I got my idea to combine the J223 and 4786 wax from a supplier. They combine these waxes in the candles that they make and sell. I like the resulting appearance. It has a smoother top than either of the two alone. It is a little harder than J223 alone. It is nearly a "one pour" wax like J223 is alone ( 4786 is definutly not ). They both have a 10% load capability.

I only want to use 6% FO load; but there may be times with some weak fragrances that I want to use more. It also gives me a little more margin of safety that there will be no FO leak. Both of the waxes are suppose to give a good hot and cold throw. Now ironically most of the FO's that I got from that supplier are the ones that have a poor hot throw. Some of them, however, give a very strong cold throw. I do get a good hot throw from some FO's that I bought from other suppliers. Like I said earlier, I am new to this candle making business and I may not know what a good throw is suppose to be like. A lot of people here are really impressed by Peak. I want to try some samples from them. Right now they are out of some of the FO's that I want to try.

[topofmurrayhill]

Well, actually I got my idea to combine the J223 and 4786 wax from a supplier. They combine these waxes in the candles that they make and sell. I like the resulting appearance. It has a smoother top than either of the two alone. It is a little harder than J223 alone. It is nearly a "one pour" wax like J223 is alone ( 4786 is definutly not ). They both have a 10% load capability.

Well OK, but let me just point out again that the sum of the two wax products is not necessarily the average of their individual properties. Unpredictable things happen with certain percentages and combinations of ingredients. Really, you'd be amazed.

I know you're concentrating on FO as an issue and you may be right. On the other hand, by now you have quite a selection of popular oils from reputable suppliers. While it's possible that FO is the issue, it's not 100% plausible.

At least eliminate the variable of wax formulation. Nobody disputes that J-223 has a good scent throw under most circumstances, right? So make a container with only J-223 and one of the FOs you like that doesn't seem to be working optimally. If it's still a dud then at least you'll be more confident that it's not your blend causing the problem.

Each of the individual formulations that you're mixing together have been extensively tested by a big company and determined to have certain desirable properties and be marketable. By combining them, you're creating something new and all the testing is up to little old you. It's not at all impossible that the factors that grace each of those individual waxes with a good hot scent throw could be obliterated by mixing them together.