Michi Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I don't get it! It seems no matter what I do (short of using the oven), I cannot for the life of me get my soaps to gel! ??I mentioned in another thread how all my batches lately have been super soft and how I'm unable to cut them for about a week or so (and they're STILL a bit spongey and sticky) so...Last night I made the recipe that Meredith posted for me (thanks Meredith ) and even put the lid on AND a towel covering it fully and still never got any warmth from it, so obviously no gel.This morning it's still super soft and sticky and looks like it'll be sitting in the mold for better than a week, just like my other ones. I've only had I think 2-3 batches that ever gelled out of all the batches I've done. ??Top posted a recipe for me last night and told me to make sure it gels, well how do I force gel?Do I HAVE to put it in the oven?If that's the case, I will have to get a wooden mold right? I've just always used plastic things.I was really excited last night about this batch! It was my first time using that many oils/butters (9) and instead of making a log like I've always done, I did a slab style, and tried swirling (although my colored portions got too thick and so I couldn't get them down through to the botttom).Hey, that brings up another question- why do my colored portions (no FO added ever) always get so dang thick? I'm guessing its b/c its such a small amount that it starts "drying". ??Just frustrated, and being one who doesn't have much patience, it sucks having to wait almost 2 weeks to cut my friggin soaps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 There are several factors that can combine to decide gel/no-gel.The temperature of the mixture is one. Cool oils and lye are popular to give people more time to work, but decrease the likelihood of gel.Some molds retain heat better than others. Gel is more likely in a wooden mold than a plastic one. More likely in a log or block mold than a slab.A larger batch retains more heat than a small one, because it has a large volume relative to the surface area.Certain ingredients and fragrance oils make the mixture heat up more.If you want the soap to gel but the odds are stacked against you, the best bet is usually to add heat. When I make a larger batch I use a wooden mold and I can use a heating pad with it if necessary. When I make a test batch I put it in a Nesco roaster at low heat.Using a regular oven is more problematic because the temperature can't usually be set low enough. You can pre-heat the oven and turn it off. Hopefully the extra warmth is enough to kick off the gel stage before it dissipates.Some people prefer the look of soap that doesn't gel, but that can backfire with firmer recipes. The gel stage also ensures that saponification is completed in the mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Michi,I never gel my milk soaps and I am able to unmold and cut the next day regardless of what mold I use. Could it be that your scale is off and perhaps your soap is soft not because it won't gel, but because your ingredients and water amounts are off?I wonder this because I recently (about 2 weeks ago) made a pine tar soap with full water. Now this soap is still soft as can be - unlike my other batches. I'm not sure if it is still soft because I soaped with full water, because of the pine tar or perhaps a combination of both? I use my oven alot if I want gel. I put my oven on warm, and once I put my mold in there, I turn the oven off and leave it sit overnight. I can always unmold and cut the next day with no problems. You can also put your mold in the oven on warm for 2 hours, with the mold inside. After 2 hours, turn the oven off and leave the mold in there until it completely cools down which is overnight for me. I also have a "gelling" box for my slab molds. My box is lined with a sheep skin blanket. I put my mold in there, wrapping it with old towels and shut the box up. I get gel in this box every time. Maybe a gelling box would work for you? For some reason, colors do affect how fast your soap traces and gets hard. My SS Electric Kiwi traces and sets up faster than I can usually move. In no time flat that portion of my soap with this colorant gets as hard as a brick. Crap maybe make all your soaps using SS Electric Kiwi. Those babies will surely be hard and ready to unmold and cut in a matter of hours. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 My SS Electric Kiwi traces and sets up faster than I can usually move. In no time flat that portion of my soap with this colorant gets as hard as a brick. Crap maybe make all your soaps using SS Electric Kiwi. Those babies will surely be hard and ready to unmold and cut in a matter of hours. lolThat's interesting -- I'll try to pay more attention. Coincidentally I made soap the day before yesterday with Electric Kiwi. Only the swirl portion -- the main portion was uncolored. It was a fast-ish but manageable recipe and the swirl portion didn't seem to thicken up faster than the rest, but maybe I just didn't notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 try setting it on a heat pad or something of that nature. also if you soap with room temp oils and room temp lye sometimes gel doesn't get rolling. smaller molds also often don't gel without additional heat. and thin plastic doesn't do so well either. I would say insulate better - under, around, and over - I like a fleece blanket myself. Or stick it in a cooler. I have thrown my flaxseed foot warmer (microwaved nice and hot) into the cooler with my soap and that got things moving.All in all, I like wooden molds with a wooden lid the best for getting a good even gel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Is your lye maybe bad? Maybe if it goes bad, it's bad? Or maybe it's something else in the container that someone brought back to the store? You never know. What kind of lye is it? I don't even know if mine gel or not. I put them in the towel then go to bed. For all I know, mine don't gel either. LOL next time I'll do in during the day so I can see if they gel. I use plastic too for a mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 That's interesting -- I'll try to pay more attention. Coincidentally I made soap the day before yesterday with Electric Kiwi. Only the swirl portion -- the main portion was uncolored. It was a fast-ish but manageable recipe and the swirl portion didn't seem to thicken up faster than the rest, but maybe I just didn't notice.I don't use this color that often but last weekend, while making my normal recipe, I was swirling in several colors to unscented portions of my raw soap. I prepared my colors as usual and had no problems with any of the other SS colors except the EK. Once I added the soap to the EK, it immediately seized on me and was unusuable. This is not the first time this has happened to me and it is always with EK. My other colors stayed at a consistency that was manageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I use select shades all the time and have never had a problem with any of them. My bottles are about a year old. Even when I did straight EK it was ok (weird color, but no seize). Much strangeness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I think Carebear hit the nail on the head with the insulating. If you are only putting 1 towel over it and your mold is plastic, you need more insulation. I put an old quilt down, then I put a thick towel on top of the quilt. Then I put my mold (wooden) right in the center. The lid I made for this mold fit inside it, so I don't use it. I take a cardboard piece that will rest on the top of my mold, and then I put a smaller towel on top of that. Then I start wrapping. First the big towel, and then the quilt and then put it in a draft-free place. Since you are using a plastic mold, I would add more towels than I use for my wooden mold. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michi Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 Good points everyone, thank you. And actually ones that I should have known already, duh!I have a feeling Meredith that you may have hit on something with the weights being off, at least for last nights batch, cuz I did the zap test this morning on it, and zzzzzzzzz major zapola! Crap! Pretty swirls too (well, on top at least), gosh darn it!!Sometimes I just want to throw in the towel with this crap going on all the time.I can make pretty M&P bars no problemo! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel91805 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 What lye calculator are you using? I've only had two batches (made at the same time) remain sticky and soft. About a month later it dawned on me that I used the lye #'s in Soapmaker instead of Soapcalc. At the time I didn't know there is a -8.3 variation you have to use in Soapmaker.....and thus, not enough lye! I'm still bitter about it. LOL....almost 8 oz of Solas oils down the drain! I can honestly say that I haven't used my Soapmaker program in months and months....Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I only use soapmaker and the lye is right - what happened with yours I wonder. What did you have your superfat set to?Different calculators will have different recommendations because the SAP values for oils & fats are not exact numbers but fall into normal ranges. So they may use different figures to get the lye amount and be equally valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I was reading a thread on here not too long ago on Soapcalc and Soapmaker. I just downloaded Soapmaker to give it a try as I thought I had read where Soapcalc can more often times be off on their information. I don't remember seeing anyone mention anything about a variance in Soapmaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michi Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 I used soapcalc.I'm gonna wait a week and see if there are any improvements (doubt it), and then I guess I'll have to rebatch. :undecided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycacti Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 What lye calculator are you using? I've only had two batches (made at the same time) remain sticky and soft. About a month later it dawned on me that I used the lye #'s in Soapmaker instead of Soapcalc. At the time I didn't know there is a -8.3 variation you have to use in Soapmaker.....and thus, not enough lye! I'm still bitter about it. LOL....almost 8 oz of Solas oils down the drain! I can honestly say that I haven't used my Soapmaker program in months and months....DonnaI only use my soap maker numbers and i think my bars are okay!Am i supposed to use different numbers? Some of my bars are a little softer but i thought was the oils. I am a newbie still!! I use them and have sold them and have put them in swaps!!uh oh!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara AL Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Michelle,On my colored portions if they get too thick I add about 1 tablespoon of distilled water and stir until I get the consisteny I want.Barbara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michi Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 Michelle,On my colored portions if they get too thick I add about 1 tablespoon of distilled water and stir until I get the consisteny I want.BarbaraGood idea, hadn't thought of that. Thanks. Obviously, it doesn't effect anything right? I'm gonna do another batch today, and I'll definitely be trying that, cuz it seems no matter what colorant I use, it always thickens up on me. :undecided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Michi, Check your scale. Remember 5 quarters is an ounce.I use a gel box. I went to Michaels and bought (with a 40% off coupon) stacking cookie cooling racks. There are 3 racks. I put a towel in the bottom of the box, then a rack, then soap, then a rack then a towel. I close up the box and leave overnight. It always gels. I soap kinda hot though. Don't use the gel box with honey or milk soaps, they'll get too hot and make a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michi Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 Check your scale. Remember 5 quarters is an ounce.Yep, definitely gonna check my scale today, but had forgotten about the quarter thingy, so thanks for the reminder Carrie. Good idea about the gel box as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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