I added a scent to hot wax and it was like the smell "exploded!" What's going on?

[leenabug]

I was adding chocolate cappacino to a thing of hot (160 degrees) 435 wax and when the scent got mixed in it was like the smell "exploded!" What I mean by that is ..........it got so strong it was gagging us....filled the room..AND the scent CHANGED when I added it to the wax! IN the bottle it had more of a coffee smell.......not much chocolate but after it hit that hot wax ALL you could smell was chocolate and not hardly any coffee. The longer I stood there and stirred the stonger it got.....it was to the point of being almost unbearable. I used the normal.......1oz. fo to 1 lb. 435 soy wax. I've never had this happen before and was wondering if that is a reaction for certain fo's? It nearly made me feel sick and even after washing I can't get the smell off me! Ever had this happen?

[topofmurrayhill]

FOs are all different strengths. If it's too much for you, try 1/2 oz per lb.

[CareBear]

Did it stay overpowering in your cooled candle?

[ValhallaGal]

What's the flashpoint for that FO? That wax may have been too hot for that particular FO's FP so when you poured it into the hot wax, it "flashed off". Or "exploded". I've had this happen to me before when I was impatient and didn't wait long enough for my wax to cool. It flashes up in my face and burns my eyes, makes me cough, and gag. And the FO isn't the same, it kind of morphes.

I know that some chocolate and chocolate blend FO's can have a low FP. So, maybe next time try pouring it when your wax is a bit cooler.

[CareBear]

The flash point is the temp at which the fumes can be ignited with an open flame. Which is not necessarily the temp at which things evaporate or flash off. Think of water - you can get a huge puff of steam, but good luck setting that steam on fire.

[Accents]

FOs do often smell different in wax than OOB, one reason a lot of people say not to judge a scent until you get it in wax. Most of my scents fill the room when I add it to wax, some bother me. Some scents just tend to linger longer than others too. Try a smaller percentage of FO next time and see if it helps, sounds like a nice strong FO you got there.

[Stella1952]

What's the flashpoint for that FO? That wax may have been too hot for that particular FO's FP so when you poured it into the hot wax, it "flashed off". Or "exploded".

As CareBear pointed out, this is NOT what "flashpoint" means. The flash point is the temperature at which it will ignite IF there is a source of ignition, meaning fire or spark. It doesn't just spontaneously erupt into fire.

What concerns me is how many of you seem to be adding chemicals to hot molten wax with your FACE over the melting pot!! :shocked2: Ummmm, that is NOT a wise procedure!! You do NOT have to peer directly down into the depth as if you threw a penny into a wishing well!! Be SURE you are NOT bending over the melting pot when adding ingredients!! We like your faces just as they are!!

160° is NOT particularly hot, BTW. Some FOs simply become very strong and annoying when added to the wax. This may simply be one to which you are sensitive. As others have suggested, use less or don't use it at all. No sense in smothering yourself!!

[Tereasa]

adding another thought... chocolate FO always seems to be really strong and overpowering. I always cut back on it.

[Guest Candelishis]

adding another thought... chocolate FO always seems to be really strong and overpowering. I always cut back on it.

Ditto. Chocolate and coffee are 2 that I always find very strong. The combination making chocolate cappucino, the FO in question, sounds pretty potent!

[ValhallaGal]

A) I did not say THAT is what a FP was. After 10+ years of soapmaking, as well as having been a supplier for 4 of those years, and testing literally 100's upon 100's of FO's, I am aware of what a FP is. And I have experienced what Leenabug asked about many times with certain FO's.

I did not say that the FO would "just spontaneously erupt into fire." I said it may have "flashed off". Just because an FO doesn't erupt into flames doesn't mean that some of the esters will not flash off when exposed to heat. Especially if the FO contains a high amount of volatiles in its formulation. As I'm sure most of you know, some FO's are comprised of a combination of man made synthetics as well as plant derived essentials.

C) I also never said that I put my face directly over my pot. Whether it be a pot of hot wax or a pot of hot soap. That is an assumption on your part. When a volatile FO/EO reacts to heat the.......we'll call it "fumes" (since you can't accept the term "flash") spread beyond the top of the pot. One doesn't need to be leaning over the top of the pot to experience the effect. And I'm quite honestly insulted that you who don't even know me think that you can just assume and accuse me of being "unwise".

D) I apologize if my above post was not clear or was confusing, leading any of your to make the above assumptions.

[Guest Candelishis]

A)

I did not say that the FO would "just spontaneously erupt into fire." I said it may have "flashed off". Just because an FO doesn't erupt into flames doesn't mean that some of the esters will not flash off when exposed to heat. Especially if the FO contains a high amount of volatiles in its formulation. As I'm sure most of you know, some FO's are comprised of a combination of man made synthetics as well as plant derived essentials.

What do you mean by "flash off"???

[Pam W]

And I'm quite honestly insulted that you who don't even know me think that you can just assume and accuse me of being "unwise".

D) I apologize if my above post was not clear or was confusing, leading any of your to make the above assumptions.

You shouldn't be insulted because as you said ''we don't know you" and we will point out dangers when we see them as Stella did. I, as a newbie, learned the hard way to not have my face too close to the pot when I add FOs - it took over 2 months for the blisters in my nose & throat to heal.

Your reply regarding flash VS flash point wasn't particularly confusing to me but might have been to a Newbie - it's easy to be confused when you're new and not yet familiar with all the terminology.

Leenabug: you now have a pretty good explanation of what happened. If the fumes do bother you, you can get a respirator to wear while working with FOs - many people use them just for this reason.

Candelishis: I interpret flash-off as an eruption of fumes.

[leenabug]

This IS the first time I have ever used a scent with chocolate or coffee scent so maybe it's just the scent. I've never had one be so overpowering! Yes carebear, the scent is still WOW in the cooled candle....i just checked. And the garage where I poured it is still overpowered with that smell when you walk in. It was like it consumed everything.(exploding smell is my best description) And after that I poured 2 other scents and you can't even smell those. I had two other scents I tried in the past (sweet patchouli and coconut lime verbena ) that were really strong to me when I poured them. Almost turned my stomach. But this was even different than that......this was "take your breath away" when you leaned close enough to stir it. Also that was incredible to me the way the scent CHANGED. Not even like the original smell..............THAT I had never had happen!

[Guest Candelishis]

Leenabug: you now have a pretty good explanation of what happened. If the fumes do bother you, you can get a respirator to wear while working with FOs - many people use them just for this reason.

Candelishis: I interpret flash-off as an eruption of fumes.

Ok. I was still thinking of it in terms of flash point. "eruption of fumes" makes more sense to me if that's what she meant.

I wear a respirator for scents that bother me - I have really bad allergies, so any time I'm working with anything really strong, especially a flowery scent (lavender is THE WORST for me!), I make sure to cover my sniffer. If not, it's instant irritation, runny eyes, and sneezing. Not good to sneeze in your wax

[Stella1952]

Not good to sneeze in your wax

The images that conjures are GrrrrrOSS!!:laugh2::laugh2:Talk about lumpy tops!!:laugh2:

[ValhallaGal]

And I'm quite honestly insulted that you who don't even know me think that you can just assume and accuse me of being "unwise".

D) I apologize if my above post was not clear or was confusing, leading any of your to make the above assumptions.

You shouldn't be insulted because as you said ''we don't know you" and we will point out dangers when we see them as Stella did. I, as a newbie, learned the hard way to not have my face too close to the pot when I add FOs - it took over 2 months for the blisters in my nose & throat to heal.

Your reply regarding flash VS flash point wasn't particularly confusing to me but might have been to a Newbie - it's easy to be confused when you're new and not yet familiar with all the terminology.

Leenabug: you now have a pretty good explanation of what happened. If the fumes do bother you, you can get a respirator to wear while working with FOs - many people use them just for this reason.

Candelishis: I interpret flash-off as an eruption of fumes.

Point taken. As I explained to another member. I'm so used to the mean, nasty, rudeness of a good many of the members from another forum that I'm generally in defense mode when I'm on forums in general. So, perhaps I was being too defensive. The tone of Stella's comments just struck me wrong. I apologize.

I can see where my comments may have not been clear to a newbie. And I should have thought about that when posting them. No excuse, but it was early and I was still working on my first cup of coffee. Lesson learned and I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part.

[Vio]

What's the flashpoint for that FO? That wax may have been too hot for that particular FO's FP so when you poured it into the hot wax, it "flashed off". Or "exploded". I've had this happen to me before when I was impatient and didn't wait long enough for my wax to cool. It flashes up in my face and burns my eyes, makes me cough, and gag. And the FO isn't the same, it kind of morphes.

I know that some chocolate and chocolate blend FO's can have a low FP. So, maybe next time try pouring it when your wax is a bit cooler.

So if flash-off can sometimes happen, it's based on flash point temps? Like it can dissipate scent if your wax temp exceeds that flash point? I've seen this said before too. Not that it will ignite at that temp, but that temp changes the structure of the fo when it's reached. It kinda makes sense. If a fo will give off gasses at a certain temp, then it could ignite if flame was involved. If flame's not involved though, the scent starts to release. Or, is it totally wrong to assume flash point temps have anything to do with it?

[Pam W]

Vio, I don't think that flash off has anything to do with flash point..don't see where any ignition could take place unless there was maybe an open flame close to your work area. But I have been wrong a couple of times.

What happened when I injured myself with the flash off was that (remember I was a newbie) I had heard FOs would blend better if warmed, so I put my FO in a metal votive mold and heated it with my heat gun then when I poured that hot FO into the hot wax, it was like Mt. St. Helen's erupted into my nose. Guess I wasn't paying much attention to the definition of warmed:lipsrseal

The scent in this particular batch did not dissipate. I was using Black Cherry Bomb FO ... kinds ironic, huh? Gave a whole new definition to hot throw

[topofmurrayhill]

The scent in this particular batch did not dissipate. I was using Black Cherry Bomb FO

The chemical that smells like black cherry is one of the strongest fragrance compounds available. That's why most black cherry FOs are very strong.

I think the suggestion that chocolate FOs tend to be strong may be true too. I haven't used a lot of them, but one of my notable experiences of having an annoyingly strong hot throw was actually with a pillar candle that was fragranced chocolate at less than 5%.

[Sharon in KY]

The scent in this particular batch did not dissipate. I was using Black Cherry Bomb FO ... kinds ironic, huh? Gave a whole new definition to hot throw

That's the one that drove me out of the room, windows open and I want a gas mask for Christmas. Wildberry Crisp from KY is the worst but I have a lot of people that like it, so now my mask is on and the fans are going. Seems like now all cherry and berry's bother me. That's why when someone says it's a "burn your nose hairs FO" then I stay away, that's not what I want.

I'm not sure you'll ever know which scents will affect you that way, I've only had a few and hope I never have another...

[leenabug]

For anyone that has used chocolate or coffee in the past..........was 160 degrees too hot of a temp to add the fo? IS it possible to add it at a lower temp? (and it still blend properly?)should I try that before I try a smaller dose? ..........this is confusing me..........which would have more impact on the strength of the fo? It is still overpowering when you take the lid off the candle. Enough so that everyone I have let smell it, has withdrawn quickly......like it took their breath away. And remember, this was only 1oz fo per 1lb of wax.This combination is not usually overpowering. So would adding a smaller percentage of fo per lb be better than adding fo at a lower temp or vice versa?

[Pam W]

I'd cut the FO back by 50% but still add it to the wax at the higher temp to ensure bonding. I cut way back on the amount I use with the Black Cherry and DragonFire from OT- just could not tolerate them at 1oz pp.

[Stella1952]

IS it possible to add it at a lower temp? (and it still blend properly?)should I try that before I try a smaller dose?

Leenabug, if you have been reading the thread on adding fragrances to soy

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66963 you can see that some people like it hot, some like it cold. The rule is "what works for you" and to discover that, you will have to experiment with your waxes, formulas and fragrances.

If I were using a FO that I reacted to as you have with yours, I would cut back on it! You reported that when others open and sniff, they recoil... so obviously, this is a very strong FO and you just won't need to use as much for it to scent a room nicely.

Different scents are constructed in different ways from different chemicals. Some are quite powerful and others quite delicate. If YOU find a certain fragrance overpowering, simply reduce the amount you put in! It certainly will not harm the candle to do so. There are quite a few fragrances which are powerful and need "toning down" for the candle not to cause folks to go into respiratory arrest. Just like commercials on television, some are louder than others. 1 oz. per pound is NOT an indication of how powerful a fragrance is or is not - it's simply a "standard" amount where a chandler can be expected to get good results without having to increase the dose rate to the point that the wax cannot handle the added oil. You can always use less! Some people only use 1/2 oz. pp because they find that amount pleasing to them in their candles.

Keep track of the ones you find overpowering in YOUR candles and add less the next time you pour them.

[leenabug]

Thanks all for the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Violetsexoticcandles]

I would cut back on it, too... my spring rain FO is so overpowering at 1 oz per lb that I HAVE to use less. It's nauseating.

I have Chocolate Fudge from Candlescience.... never had a problem with it being overpowering like that, but it is a very strong scent, as well. That's another one I'd do 1/2 oz per lb.

Wish all FO's could throw good at that level- it'd sure be cheaper! :rolleyes2