V-1 cracking soloution????

[DonC]

I had heard the issues about V-1 cracking and asked my supplier about them. She was quick to admit there was an issue with it. She offered me a substantial sample to play with free of charge and suggested that I try adding a small amount of C-3 to the mix and try it.

WELL, I have been pouring votives all day long, dozens of them and not even the hint of any cracks anywhere and the release is super!! Here is what I did;

14ozs V-1

2ozs C-3 = 1lb wax

1oz FO (Baby Powder)

Brought wax up to 180 and turned the pot OFF.

Added FO and stirred hard for about 3 min, non-stop.

Allowed wax to cool to about 105-110 and poured 6 votives.

Once these were set up (about 1hr), I removed them and I turned the pot back on. Once the wax was just liquid again(no thermometer this time), I stirred it gently for about a minute and poured another 6, and continued till the pot was empty and I started the process over again. Once I get the hang of this process I will double up on the "recipe" so that my melting pot will have a bigger reserve for more candles.

Hope this helps

[Violetsexoticcandles]

V-1 has had issues ever since I can recall... it took me calling a different supplier to get the answers I needed. He said to try 10% C3 per lb with V1.

See the posts on V1... Very interesting... Also- see the thread that was posted about c3 and if it is 100% soy. Nature Wax representatives posted... I'm still waiting to hear about the cracking issue.

Vi

[SoyVey53]

I quit using V1 for that very reason. Actually I quit making votives. Since I don't sell, I can buy soy votives cheap enough. I was tired of having to mess with V1. I use C3 for containers, but it always bothered me that the votive wax was so bad in comparison. I saw your thread Violet, didn't see a reply as of yesterday, I'm going to keep checking it.

[Carriegsxr6]

You are pouring tooooo cool. Votives and pillars need to be poured around 170 at the least.

Heat 175, add color/FO stir for a minute then pour right away before it cools too much.

[Stella1952]

Votives and pillars need to be poured around 170 at the least

Not according to my supplier who put this question to the NatureWax rep...

I have been told by Cargill that if your wax is cracking you are pouring too hot. I have been told to reduce the temp that you pour all the way down to between 115 -120 degrees.

Don, cracking sometimes does not occur right away so don't think you are out of the woods yet...

[Carriegsxr6]

Not according to my supplier who put this question to the NatureWax rep...

Don, cracking sometimes does not occur right away so don't think you are out of the woods yet...

My supplier states it differently for the V-1 and P-1 Waxes. If you pour too cool, it will not shrink and release from the mold. i never let mine cool down below 150, i always try to stay around 165-170

[bunkie68]

I'm glad to know it's not just me having problems with V-1 (although it stinks that we're having them). My tarts have been cracking like mad, sometimes breaking while they're in the mold. I was thinking it was a bad batch, as my early experience with V-1 was fantastic, with the exception of some bubbling on top of my tarts (oh, how I wish that was my only problem now!). But it sounds like it might just be a general problem with the wax, which stinks. I'm to the point of wondering if I should look for a new wax to use - I love the easy release I get with the V-1, but it's not worth it if I'm never sure when I pour if my tarts will crack so much that they're not even suitable for sale. :undecided

I've tried darn near everything - adding coconut oil, adding C-3 (although not as much as Don suggested - I used 15 oz. V-1, 1 oz. C-3), pouring hot (up to about 175 degrees), pouring cool (down to about 130, and at that temp, I found that the wax was setting up before I could pour it all - and I'm making small batches, 6 to 8 at a time), and while some batches of tarts have turned out better than others, none have been what I'd call good, and it certainly hasn't been consistent.

I may try pouring cooler and remelting the wax when it starts to set up, but I'm just about ready to throw in the towel with the V-1. I can't take orders and not have a reasonable expectation that my wax will perform for me.

[Violetsexoticcandles]

One of the Nature Wax techs came on and said they were working on a new blend, p2 for votives/pillars and p3. I replied to him asking if that would solve the cracking issues.

I was told to pour cooler, hotter....blah.

I pour mine at around 150. Was pouring hotter like 175 but the cracks were worse.

I add 10% c3 per lb, heat to 175, add FO, stir like crazy, then pour into heated molds, leave the molds in a warmed oven and don't mess with them til the next day. Seems to be the only thing that worked. But I haven't played with it enough to see if it'd work with darker colors, etc... and it's a PITA to do.

I thought about changing waxes for this reason. I've heard Ecosoya PB works well (talked to Mike at Candlescience).

Right now I have so many votives I don't need to make anymore but should probably test with darker colors in case I get an order, huh? :undecided

[kandlekrazy]

If P2 and P3 are anything like the transition from C2 to C3 I'm glad I don't make pillars!! I haven't even made any votives in quite some time now. I can't stand the thought of having to retest again! I can deal with containers and wax differences, but not in votives and pillars!

[Stella1952]

If you pour too cool, it will not shrink and release from the mold.

I cannot comment about P1 because we're talking about V1 here. I have not had any problems with votives releasing from the mold because of pouring V1 at lower temps. I have had problems with release on a small octagon shaped mold and a small square. The problem there is because of the straight sides causing mold vacuum. It happens with all waxes, not just V1. I use pliers and muscle on the wick pin to pull that one...grip...groan......POP! The rest of my votive molds have a slight taper from top to bottom and I have no problems with them with any wax I have used. Drilling a small hole in the bottoms of straight-sided molds will eliminate the mold vacuum problem - I just haven't bothered to drill mine yet.

[Carriegsxr6]

I cannot comment about P1 because we're talking about V1 here. I have not had any problems with votives releasing from the mold because of pouring V1 at lower temps. I have had problems with release on a small octagon shaped mold and a small square. The problem there is because of the straight sides causing mold vacuum. It happens with all waxes, not just V1. I use pliers and muscle on the wick pin to pull that one...grip...groan......POP! The rest of my votive molds have a slight taper from top to bottom and I have no problems with them with any wax I have used. Drilling a small hole in the bottoms of straight-sided molds will eliminate the mold vacuum problem - I just haven't bothered to drill mine yet.

I have used octagon, round and square votives and have had no problems when I pour V-1 at a higher temp. Seems like this may be an all temp wax

[heidijo]

I'm sorry if I've posted this before on other similar threads, but hope it might help....try putting a cardboard box over the V-1/C-3 votives immediately after pouring and don't remove for hours, until they are set up and cool. I use 13 ozs. of V-1 to 3 ozs. of C-3. I pour at 175 and don't get any cracking as long as I use the box.

[Stella1952]

Thanks for the reminder, heidijo - slow, even cooling is sooo important to soy candles.

[bunkie68]

I'm just curious - has anyone gotten a new batch of V-1 since we were all posting about having problems? I've got a new (small) batch on the way and I was wondering if anyone had also ordered more and whether you'd seen any improvement.

[Violetsexoticcandles]

I'm just curious - has anyone gotten a new batch of V-1 since we were all posting about having problems? I've got a new (small) batch on the way and I was wondering if anyone had also ordered more and whether you'd seen any improvement.

I haven't- I don't trust it anymore. I have to mess with the stuff I have (still have like 30 #) until it's gone, then I'm switching to Ecosoya PB. My votives and tarts all come out smooth with EPb.

[bunkie68]

I haven't- I don't trust it anymore. I have to mess with the stuff I have (still have like 30 #) until it's gone, then I'm switching to Ecosoya PB. My votives and tarts all come out smooth with EPb.

Does it release as easily as the V-1? If it does, and my little batch of V-1 that I've got on the way doesn't work any better, I may be looking to switch as well.

[Violetsexoticcandles]

Does it release as easily as the V-1? If it does, and my little batch of V-1 that I've got on the way doesn't work any better, I may be looking to switch as well.

Yes, it does. I am not sure where you get your V1 from, but my supplier already told me that Naturewax isn't going to try to work out the issues (search the forums for Naturewax's own comments) because they don't move enough of it... That is really why I'm not bothering with it.

[bunkie68]

Yes, it does. I am not sure where you get your V1 from, but my supplier already told me that Naturewax isn't going to try to work out the issues (search the forums for Naturewax's own comments) because they don't move enough of it... That is really why I'm not bothering with it.

I get mine from Lone Star. Good to know that Cargill won't bother with fixing it - guess it never occurred to them that word gets around and they might sell *more* if they did. But oh well, if that's how it's going to be, so it is. I may check out the Ecosoya, then.

[Gdawg]

I love how easy the Ecosoya releases from the molds, I also think the Hot throw is stronger then the V1, very smooth looking also

[Stella1952]

If NatureWax reformulates V1, I doubt it will be marketed with that same designation. More likely it will be V2 or something similar to what they have done with the different container formulations (C1, C2 & C3). So if you purchase V1, I would expect it would be the same formula as the V1 from previous batches.

In the handling instructions for V1 (available from the NatureWax site as a pdf download), it states:

Note: The addition of 5 to 10 % Stearic Acid will improve the performance of the Wax.

That's a good place to start. Others have recommended adding a small amount of C3 to soften it somewhat and make it less brittle. HTH

[bunkie68]

Thanks, Stella. I've tried the C-3 and had no noticeable improvement with that. I guess my next step is to try the stearic acid and see what that does, if anything. It's just frustrating, because when I first started, it worked SO WELL!!! Not flawless, but nowhere near the cracking problems I'm having now.

[Violetsexoticcandles]

Thanks, Stella. I've tried the C-3 and had no noticeable improvement with that. I guess my next step is to try the stearic acid and see what that does, if anything. It's just frustrating, because when I first started, it worked SO WELL!!! Not flawless, but nowhere near the cracking problems I'm having now.

I talked to Mike @ Candlescience about my frustrations w/V1 and he said to use 10% C3 and no stearic. Tried that and it worked, but only if I poured and cooled them in a warm oven. I made some last week w/out cooling in the oven and they cracked like crazy.

I'm just gonna use up the V1 and switch. I played with the V1 for so long trying to make it work and barely anything did... not worth it, really, especially when I don't have to do S*hit to Ecosoya PB to get it to work for me.

[Stella1952]

Vi, CS is not a distributor of NatureWax, but they DO distribute Ecosoya.

When having problems, first check the handling sheets from the NatureWax website or email them. The temperature at which V1 is poured is pretty critical.

Bunkie, the handling sheet says:

Step Five: Pouring Candles – Make sure that the mold is at room or slightly warmer before pouring the wax into

the mold. The wax should be poured in the mold while the wax is 145 to 165°F to reduce cracking and speed up

the cure time of the wax.

[bunkie68]

Yep, I warm my molds just a bit, and I've tried pouring at darn near every temperature between 145 and 165 and some higher and lower, just for grins and just to see what happened. Nothing seems to help. And if it's this much of a hassle every single time I pour, wondering and worrying whether a batch will be usable or if it will crack so badly that there's no hope for it, well, that's just not fun. I'll give the batch I've got coming one last try, and if I keep having issues, then I'll be experimenting with other waxes.

[Violetsexoticcandles]

Vi, CS is not a distributor of NatureWax, but they DO distribute Ecosoya.

When having problems, first check the handling sheets from the NatureWax website or email them. The temperature at which V1 is poured is pretty critical.

Bunkie, the handling sheet says:

I know that- I'd emailed Mike at CS because I wanted to know if Ecosoya had any 'issues' prior to sampling it. But his tips did help, to a certain degree.