Veggie soap vs. Lard soap

[Brat]

Hi there, just did an experiment. I made up 2 batches of soap, same ingredients and percentages except one was lard and one was crisco. I used one bar on one side of my body, and the other on the other side. Honestly, I can't tell any difference. Splitting hairs, I might be tempted to say the veggie was slightly creamier, but even then I am not too sure. The skin on both sides of my body feel exactly the same. No dryness or greasiness anywhere.

Anyway, do any of you notice a difference? How did you choose between the two for your base recipe? Or do you use a few different bases?

[RobinInOR]

I've testing my formula, subbing tallow for the palm. For me the tallow bar is much creamier - I like it a lot better.

Next year I'll be doing both types I think, if all goes as planned.

[Carriegsxr6]

I've testing my formula, subbing tallow for the palm. For me the tallow bar is much creamier - I like it a lot better.

Next year I'll be doing both types I think, if all goes as planned.

this is what i have been tempted to do with my recipe too. i can get a gallon of palm oil for $10 so i really dont care about saving money with lard, I am just wondering if I will notice more creaminess or a longer lasting bar. I think I may try it next weekend.

[CareBear]

IMO, lard and crisco are not interchangeable. If I'm swapping out a large amount of lard I use palm, if a smaller amount I go for shea butter.

I do find that crisco gives me a nicer lather than lard, and a gentler soap altogether, but softer - so I don't like it in large amounts. Plus I always have trouble with batches too high in crisco (thick ash sometimes, and DOS)

[aprillee]

I love my lard bars and so does everyone else. It gives me a creaminess I can't describe. I love all veggie soaps but to me ....Lard Rules!

[Meridith]

I too prefer lard bar over a veggie bar. I think the lather is much smoother and creamier than a veggie bar.

[Carriegsxr6]

I do find that crisco gives me a nicer lather than lard, and a gentler soap altogether, but softer - so I don't like it in large amounts.

I agree about the crisco, but I went with using the pure soybean liquid type. I use it at about 15% in my new recipe. I used my new recipe for the OT swap, you have to tell me how you likie.

[eugenia]

For me, it's a marketing thing. I have no personal aversion to lard, but find it easier in my area to push "no animal fats". It really depends on your audience. I could sell both, but I stick with the palm as it's an easier marketing angle for me.

[topofmurrayhill]

You can still advertise no animal testing.

No animals were tortured to produce this soap; they were just killed and melted down.

[CareBear]

You can still advertise no animal testing.

No animals were tortured to produce this soap; they were just killed and melted down.

[Scent Cellar]

I have made both kinds of soap and I much prefer working with and using veggie soap.

[Meridith]

You can still advertise no animal testing.

No animals were tortured to produce this soap; they were just killed and melted down.

Being an animal lover, that would be very offensive to me and not funny at all. I prefer, "Our products are never tested on animals. We abuse humans instead."

[topofmurrayhill]

Being an animal lover, that would be very offensive to me and not funny at all.

Would it be just the labeling or the soap you would find offensive? I believe you have condoned the use of rendered animal fats in soap, so I'm thinking it's being confronted with the reality of it that disturbes you.

I'm an animal lover too. If I had a bunny I would love it and feed it veggies. But instead I have two cats that I love and I feed them ground up bunny. The world is full of irony.

[Meridith]

Would it be just the labeling or the soap you would find offensive? I believe you have condoned the use of rendered animal fats in soap, so I'm thinking it's being confronted with the reality of it that disturbes you.

I'm an animal lover too. If I had a bunny I would love it and feed it veggies. But instead I have two cats that I love and I feed them ground up bunny. The world is full of irony.

It is this statement "No animals were tortured to produce this soap; they were just killed and melted down" that I would find offensive and not funny at all. Using animal fats does not offend me (nor does eating meat) but making light of killing an animal for use does.

[beautifulfeetcandles]

You can still advertise no animal testing.

No animals were tortured to produce this soap; they were just killed and melted down.

ROFL - topofmurrayhill, just by chance do you ever frequent political forums. You're wit and especially your avatar and location are familiar =)

[beautifulfeetcandles]

Being an animal lover, that would be very offensive to me and not funny at all. I prefer, "Our products are never tested on animals. We abuse humans instead."

And this isnt offensive?

[Meridith]

And this isnt offensive?

Not to me it is not! You must not be an animal lover since you find a statement about torture of animals so funny.

[Carriegsxr6]

Not to me it is not! You must not be an animal lover since you find a statement about torture of animals so funny.

No worries Meridith, I cant belive he would bump an old thread with nothing constructive to say about the original post. We'll see how eager others are to help him when he has questions about soap making.:rolleyes2

[Meridith]

No worries Meridith, I cant belive he would bump an old thread with nothing constructive to say about the original post. We'll see how eager others are to help him when he has questions about soap making.:rolleyes2

LOL I thought the same thing. Especially since it originally never was intended to nor did it start a fight. Now it seems like this poster wants to start something. LOL

[Carriegsxr6]

LOL I thought the same thing. Especially since it originally never was intended to nor did it start a fight. Now it seems like this poster wants to start something. LOL

No kidding, and I also find it extremly funny how some people talk a lot of talk, yet never subject their creations to a swap to prove that they can really walk the walk.

:laugh2:

:lipsrseal :lipsrseal

[MasterBaker2]

To get "back on topic" a little bit I have to say that many prefer my vegie soap over my lard soap hands down. I was doing a blind test to see what was preferred and so far the numbers have come back for the vegie. This is opposite to what I've researched as far the "big" research companies results. They say that the lard soaps win hands down.

Who knows what the real answer is but for now I offer both.

As far as the other debate; I don't have a problem with using animal products as long as I feel comfortable that the animals haven't been tortured. As far as the comment "Our products are never tested on animals. We abuse humans instead." goes ( I do believe this is grumpy girls ) I think it's funny as hell because lets face it who hasn't met a human or two that need to be abused. I think the whole thing was meant tongue in cheek and if you can't see that or see past that than you need to get over yourself because you're taking "it" and yourself way to seriously and you need to get a life! JMO

[kidsngarden]

HATE PALM hate it hate it hate it. I don't like soaping it and don't like using it. My biggest seller is a bar that is just lard, coconut, and sunflower. I use really high percentage of hard oils - 50-60 % but when I make my all veggie bar I only add the palm at 30% because I don't like it.

If you want dirt on Palm they are tearing down a gazillion acres of rainforest to produce it so I guess you have to choose the lesser of two evils by your own opinion - a leftover byproduct of meat production or something that is taking away the natural habitat of rainforest plants and wildlife. I am fine with people who choose not to eat meat, but I don't think that vegetarianism will take over the world any time soon so I think that using leftovers from meat production is a far better choice.

As for the animal thing I have a farm. I make soap from goat milk from my own goats. I eat goats, I eat my own home grown pork, I eat my own rabbits and I use LARD in my soaps. I have people who ask me (quite a few while eating some form of meat) how I can possibly eat those cute goats and bunnies? Here's the deal - they all start out cute. That burger you ate at McDonald's was a very cute calf once. Baby chicks are just adorable. The difference is that I have the guts to raise it under blissful organic conditions myself, kill it quickly and humanely, and respect the animal that gave it's life for my food. My kids have friends who don't correlate that hamburger come from cows. They think it magically appears in the grocery store or something.

I wouldn't eat my dog, I wouldn't eat my momma goats - they are PETS, but I have animals that aren't pets but product for meat, or soap, or whatever. They are treated very well, I enjoy having them, I am an animal lover, but I don't get attached. I'm sure that joke was tongue in cheek and personally I thought it was funny and a true irony. The human one wasn't funny at all. Animals and humans are not the same - not in my book anyway.

rant over,

Bethany

[topofmurrayhill]

Personally I loved Meridith's slogan because it would so reach the pinnacle of irony if ever placed on a bar of lard soap.

Our products are never tested on animals. We abuse humans instead.

Kind of needless to say the soap isn't tested on animals, but the slogan appeals to animal lovers, amuses the slightly misanthropic, and helps charm people into buying a bar of soap made by an animal lover who doesn't mind sometimes using the fat of slaughtered animals as an ingredient. That could be delightfully twisted.

Nevertheless, I think us animals lovers who aren't actively against the raising and harvesting of animals can all agree we want them to be treated well along the way. I know we all appreciate what Bethany has to say about that.

When it comes to animal testing and research though, that's where it gets tricky. If I recall, the Body Shop slogan has been "Against Animal Testing". I assume that acknowledges the fact that so many ingredients used in the industry have already been tested on animals. It sidesteps dishonesty, yet it takes a position on the matter -- a position it's easy to agree with unless you search your soul.

As an animal lover, you might get your dog or cat vaccinated for rabies. If you're a big enough animal lover to be a vet or rescue worker, you'll probably be vaccinated yourself. If you're bitten by a wild or feral animal, you'll be vaccinated to prevent the possibility of a horrible and agonizing death.

A terrible death that countless animals have been intentionally subjected to in order to develop and improve the vaccine.

[Meridith]

You make very good points Top and as I said, I am not opposed to lard, tallow or any animal byproducts in soap, nor am I opposed to eating meat or hunting (if you eat what you kill - trophy hunting I think is vile). I agree wholeheartedly with Kid's post as well. I personally would rather use a bar of soap that had lard/animals byproduct in it from an animal raised for a certain purpose than to use a veggie bar where the lives of innocent animals and their natural habitat were lost, especially to the point of extinction or near extinction, for that product.

I also think that sometimes it is necessary to test on animals - it is how we find cures for what ails us as people - KWIM? But, what I dont' agree with or what I find concerning, as you so nicely stated, is how these animals are treated along the way.

I was not offended, per say, by your post, but would be offended if I read your statement on a product. I think your sense of humor is very evident and most that have been around for awhile get and appreciate it. I think though that your suggested statement makes fun in a way that I wouldn't find funny. But to say, "we never test on animals. we abuse humans instead" is funny to me in a very "tongue in cheek" kind of way. And yes, you are correct, the irony of this on a bar with Lard is funny!

[topofmurrayhill]

I hope the grumpy rabble-rousers will notice we aren't fighting, lol. I do feel a little guilty for posting off-topic, but in this day and age it's difficult to deal with veggie vs. animal fat as only a matter of soap qualities.

I'll say one thing about my slogan. Naturally, I wasn't envisioning it actually appearing on a product, but let's say it did. Some people might be amused by the irony and some might find it in bad taste, but it will seldom manipulate or steer people into making a buying decision that isn't in line with their principles.

We have irony upon irony in our society when it comes to this subject. Environmental awareness and nature shows might have something to do with it, but at heart I think it all starts with the fact that people like to keep pets. We love our companion animals. As a society gets more wealthy and prosperous, the social status of companion animals rises and the resources allocated to caring for them increases. They become a little more equal with other family members. Inevitably, some people will adopt an "animals are people too" philosophy.

Of course one of the ironies is that we often keep carnivores are pets. Dogs are mostly carnivores, cats are strictly carnivores. Neither can survive without consuming other animals. There is an attitude I don't care for that says humans are guilty but other animals are innocent. Seems like some kind of variation on original sin.