bugtussle Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 After all the replies to the "Tin on Fire" thread, IMHO, I think we must wick for the bottom 1/3 of our candle. A full meltpool at the 1st burn is probably too big a wick. I am starting tests aimed at the bottom 1/3. I think you have succeeded when you find a tiny layer of wax on the sides as you are about to start the last 1/3 burn. I am even finding that trimming the wicks is not as critical when you use a smaller wick. There is very little wick to trim. Let's face it, this is how most customers want to burn the candle. When I bought candles (6 yrs ago,) this is how many commercial candles burned. There was a little hangup on the sides. I think this was done for a VERY good reason. Then we all started making candles and tried to achieve a FMP on the first burn, I think we started over-wicking. I personally would rather leave a little wax on the sides then take a chance of having a tin or glass container catch fire.TIA for your opinions, Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky_CO Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 You are not wrong. It is a fine line that we walk. To small of a wick and you have drowning problems 1/2 down because all the side suddenly the wax catches up because of the chimney effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 I don't know anything about paraffin, so everything I have to say is based on my experiences with both soy and palm wax. I have found that unless you vastly underwick the candle or have some terrible problem with the FOs, drowning isn't easy to achieve, especially with all the information available, both from suppliers, wick manufacturers and folks here! Overwicking, I fear, is far more common. I see candle photos frequently that show, for example, a drowning wick... but a small flame is what burns slowest and best in a palm pillar. Even the soy container candles seem to tool along best with a relatively small flame (with the wick trimmed to 1/4"). Usually a full melt pool is achieved on the second or third burn, but the candles don't wait until then to start smelling great! Personally, I think they burn best slow and steady. I haven't found the hot throw to suffer appreciably because of this.I think Carole is correct in her theory that there has to be a reason that the candles from many of the "bigtime" candle manufacturers often tunnel and seem underwicked...1) The cost of a bigger wick is very close to the same as the smaller one, so there is no cost incentive for them to underwick.2) They have testing labs and all kinds of experts with whom to consult, so it can't be ignorance3) So I am left to think that they do this deliberately because of the public's propensity to ignore instructions!Lawsuits drive up insurance costs and are not good for business! Better a candle should drown out, from that point of view, than to become a torch.4) And then there is the company's commitment to safety (which is last behind the expense of lawsuits and insurance costs)... and good PR...While I can't see making candles that won't burn or leave half the wax after the wick has burned all the way down, I think we can all take a lesson as Carole has wisely suggested, and be SURE to err on the side of slightly underwicking to target the later stages of the burn."Wicking for the bottom third of the candle" is an excellent way to put it!Combining that with using taller sustainer bases that stay sealed to the bottom of containers so that candles reliably self-extinguish if the owner doesn't have enough sense to stop burning before the LAST DROP they paid for is consumed!Thanks, Carole! You've given us all something to consider! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I agree with the idea of wicking conservatively, if only because you get a better burn for the overall life of the candle and less soot. There can be a fine line as Vicky says, but I suspect many more candles made around here are overwicked vs. underwicked. Tins have always seemed to me especially easy to overwick because they burn so hot at the bottom vs. the top.Just remember a lot of candles are overwicked and you can't beg or plead or coerce them to catch fire. Overwicking is potentially a cause but you have to be careful in jumping to conclusions if you run into the problem.I know a very conscientious candle designer who tests stuff so thoroughly it's fit for the space program. At one point the occasional report started coming in of containers catching fire. When the problem was finally reproduced, it wasn't caused by debris in the melt pool or big flames or burning to the bottom or unreasonable fragrance levels. The candles never got too hot even burning for 7 hours. It actually happened in the middle of the container in the middle of a normal burn -- then suddenly pooft.The exact reason was never determined, but it started happening with a new batch of wax and changing to a different blend totally banished the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I have had more than one person tell me that they buy candles from a company who only sells at parties. They love them because all the wax burns completely away. Isn't this potentially dangerous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 You're catching on, coconut! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I was wondering if Top would jump in...he's been telling folks for at least a year that over-wicking is a problem many of us have. I know I listened. My candles seldom reach a full melt pool on the first burn, but they do catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugtussle Posted September 26, 2007 Author Share Posted September 26, 2007 Look at the posts before you. Top did jump in & seems to concur. Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 You're catching on, coconut! Thanks, I'm slow but I get there! Seriously, though, I do focus on wicking for the bottom third of the jar also. I gave up on my htp wicks because the flame was just too hot at the bottom of the jar. I do use paraffin, Harmony Blend, and usually this wax catches up just fine on a slightly underwicked candle. In fact, I have trouble finding small enough wicks for my little jars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henryk Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 When I was a newbie and first started a few years ago Vicky posted that she never looked for a full meltpool on the first burn - this was on the old board in the natural wax section. It was some of the best advice I've heard on this board. So many people wick for that inch per hour rule so that a customer gets that scent throw right away - but what happens later on? You can get major sooting, flickering flames, glass that gets way too hot, etc. Sadly, this still gets posted to newbies over and over again even today. I'm glad that this is finally being addressed by others also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michi Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Thanks, I'm slow but I get there! Seriously, though, I do focus on wicking for the bottom third of the jar also. I gave up on my htp wicks because the flame was just too hot at the bottom of the jar. I do use paraffin, Harmony Blend, and usually this wax catches up just fine on a slightly underwicked candle. In fact, I have trouble finding small enough wicks for my little jars!You and me both coconut! I have these little 4ozers that I just love, and so do my customers etc. (perfect to try a new scent or for sm. rooms etc.) I could almost go with a tealight sized wick for these dudes.I hope that all the newbies will read this thread and take it to heart! I know that when I first started here (the old board) there were a LOT of threads stating that you should achieve a FMP on the first burn in order for the candle to burn correctly (ie. not tunnel), and that's how I first started, until I realized that halfway through the candle, it was too dang hot and started to smoke, even if I trimmed the wick down to a nub. Through trial and error of my own I found that using a smaller wick than I "thought" would be right for any certain application, was the best wick for me. Now when I'm testing a new container, and I see that bit of a shell/hangup, even after 2-3 and even sometimes 4 burns, I get excited, where before (when I first started) I would be pulling my hair out, trying a bigger "flame thrower". LOLThis is why TESTING and following proper candle burning techniques is so important IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudsnwicks Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 There's a lot of containers which taper downward slightly. For those, if you have FMP on the 1st burn, you're in danger of it getting too hot when it gets down toward the bottom. So it really depends on the shape of your container. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdawg Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 okay sorry this is a couple months old but have been searching for the "correct" amount of wax to be left at bottom. Seem to be pulling up different results. 1/3" 1/4" 1/2" what is the norm or at least best number to shoot for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I don't know the "correct" answer, but I think it would have to be slightly less for a smaller candle. For example, leaving 1/2" in a tea light wouldn't leave much to burn! Same with a votive. If I HAD to pick ONE number, I'd choose 1/4". JMO... What IS aggravating is finding smaller quantities of wick tabs in varying heights and base sizes at the same supplier!:undecided It's ALWAYS somethin', right?:rolleyes2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdawg Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 thanks stella...had to chuckle at your last words also, so true so true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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