Your reaction to this comment about 6006?

[Judy, USMC]

"I use the 6006, 30% soy. It has an awesome hot throw. When they want soy, I tell them it is a soy blend. When they want parrifin, I tell them it is a parrifin blend. It it true." NOT my statement!!!

[Candybee]

Oh for pete's sake!! Hopes that's not a suppliers comment.

[mizbizzyb]

No it is from this board.

I was kind of confused when I read that. But if it works for her.....I guess nothing I can say about it.

[Candybee]

Really? Must have missed this. Takes all kinds I guess.

[debscent]

It's marketing. Is any part of the statement untrue?

[mindy5140]

Who cares how others make a buck?? Some call it a soy blend others call it a Paraffin blend. So what if she calls it both to make a sale.

[bugtussle]

It was probably me that said it, and I'm PROUD of it If it wasn't me, kudos to whoever said it. Some people want soy, some want paraffin. It's not a lie, & it makes everyone happy. :D Carole

[bugtussle]

Kudos to whoever!!!! I have memorized the spelling of paraffin.

Go Debra!

Carole

[PurpleHippie]

It sounds to me like that is a true statement. The statement has "blend" not that it is strickly soy or strickly paraffin. Now if the customer ask how much of the wax is one or the other and this person lied about it that would be different. I try not to focus on what others say to sell their products. There are a lot of marketing phrases I don't care for and won't use. There are also many tactics people use to make a sale that I don't care for either. However, if it doesn't concern my products I just ignore it. It's tough enough to just keep up with what I have to do. :undecided

[Vicky_CO]

Nothing in that statement is untrue so I don't have a problem with it. Now would I make that statement no because it is to close to a lie.

I tell them it is a soy blend

this is the part I think boarder on being a lie.

[notjustbaskets]

Ok I dont know if I am slow or what but I dont get it. Is 6006 mixed with soy and paraffin? If not, What is it exactly?

[Guest Candelishis]

Wow...this is a tough one...Like Vicky said, it's not "untrue". But I think it is misleading. It's like feeding a vegetarian a dish that is vegetables cooked in animal fat or stock and telling them it's vegetarian--because TECHNICALLY it has no meat in it, if that makes sense? If someone (the vegetarian) wants to buy a soy candle (the veggies) because they don't want the "bad" part of paraffin (the animal products), then I think it is misleading to just tell them it's soy just to make a sale. If you tell them it is a blend of soy AND paraffin (or vegetables prepared in animal stock), that is truthful. But if a person doesn't want a paraffin candle, you're leading them to believe that they're not buying paraffin. But that's marketing. We are all duped every day by the marketing geniuses out there, and I suppose "what they don't know won't hurt them" applies, but I would personally NEVER say something like that to a customer. I only use 100% soy wax, so that I can feel good about marketing my candles as such.

[PurpleHippie]

Ok, just making sure here...she did say that she tells them "soy BLEND" or "paraffin BLEND" not strickly soy or strickly paraffin? I agree if she was telling people the wax is only soy or only paraffin that would be wrong but that isn't the case or is it?

[Henryk]

You know I just read that the other day and I thought it was pretty ingenious marketing myself. I thought the person had a point in the whole post as people aren't just buying a product alone. How else can one get them to pay 300 dollars for a candle? In general, people aren't just buying an item - they are buying an "image". That is why you have FOs like "Essence of Jesus" - talk about an image. Exactly how much Jesus is in that jelly jar container? (Don't be offended - its to prove my point about marketing).

6006 is a blend of soy and paraffin like air is a mixture of mostly oxygen and nitrogen. If the person wanted to know exactly what is the wax mix should you tell them? If you wanted to sure but most candle makers would have a problem if they worked hard a formula. Even vendors do that. KY isn't going to say what perfect blend or parasoy's ratios are and they are selling to candle makers themselves, so do you think a purchaser would be walking around thinking "I'm not buying that because I want 69% soy and 31% paraffin".

IMO if the people asking for soy or paraffin (doesn't matter) were told it was a "blend" then unless the person doesn't understand English they would know it wasn't all of whatever it was they were asking for. It really is that simple. Its just like saying "glass 1/2 full" or "glass 1/2 empty".

(Edit for spelling)

[Henryk]

Wow...this is a tough one...Like Vicky said, it's not "untrue". But I think it is misleading. It's like feeding a vegetarian a dish that is vegetables cooked in animal fat or stock and telling them it's vegetarian--because TECHNICALLY it has no meat in it, if that makes sense? If someone (the vegetarian) wants to buy a soy candle (the veggies) because they don't want the "bad" part of paraffin (the animal products), then I think it is misleading to just tell them it's soy just to make a sale. If you tell them it is a blend of soy AND paraffin (or vegetables prepared in animal stock), that is truthful. But if a person doesn't want a paraffin candle, you're leading them to believe that they're not buying paraffin. But that's marketing. We are all duped every day by the marketing geniuses out there, and I suppose "what they don't know won't hurt them" applies, but I would personally NEVER say something like that to a customer. I only use 100% soy wax, so that I can feel good about marketing my candles as such.

Those are good points. I can tell you that we vegetarians know about such things and accept them as part of our "imperfect world". And its probably why the beeswax posts are in the veg candle forum - beeswax is an animal product. (Sorry mods - no offence please!) Paraffin is of both animal and vegetable origin. My point, in this particular case, is if people know enough to even ASK the question - then I don't see how they can not understand the answer.

[Vicky_CO]

None taken Henry and why the BW questions end up over there is more to do with the fact they have in the past gotten lost very easily in the general section. But as we get more and more alternative veggie waxes it may get moved to the gel section and that name changed to Gel and Beeswax because neither of those waxes have a ton of questions about them. If you are to post questions about either of those in the general section they get lost in the shuffle and the people needing help don't get answers. I have noticed more and more Beeswax question getting lost in the veggie section.

[Henryk]

Glad of that and Vicky I fully understand. Its not like you can a forum dedicated to EVERY wax out there.

[Stella1952]

Awwww, JEEZELOUIZE.:rolleyes2 I don't know 6006 from a 747, but what's wrong with just tellin' it like it T I Z? Isn't it a lot of effort to structure your words so they can imply this or that? Wouldn't it just be easier to state the facts and not try to manipulate the customer? As a former advertising and marketing weasel, I DO understand the game, but that's just it... IT'S A GAME! Why not JUST SAY it's a blend of 30% soy and 70% paraffin and leave it at that! Heck - you could even call it a PREMIUM paraffin & soy blend iffen ya wanna - I can easily flow with that, but to try to make people think that the blend contains primarily soy (if that'll make the sale) or primarily paraffin (if that'll make the sale) is a trifle over the line of ethics in marketing IMHO. Just tell the unvarnished truth and the quality of your products will determine the outcome.

*..."Just the facts, m'am"...*

Joe Friday

[topofmurrayhill]

Wow...this is a tough one...Like Vicky said, it's not "untrue". But I think it is misleading. It's like feeding a vegetarian a dish that is vegetables cooked in animal fat or stock and telling them it's vegetarian--because TECHNICALLY it has no meat in it, if that makes sense?

I've heard a number of candlemakers put it in those terms, but I don't think it's the same thing. In fact, I don't think this is a tough question at all.

It isn't about nutrition or philosophy. Consumers care about what the candle wax is made of because candlemakers told them they should. Soy shortening in candles had good hype potential. The candlemakers were sold by the soybean industry and the consumers were sold by the candlemakers.

Now we even have brainwashed suggestions that the government should require listing the ingredients in the candle wax as though people are going to freakin' eat it.

However, that's not going to happen. It remains the prerogative of each individual candlemaker to have their own philosophy about wax, plus how or whether to describe the constituents of their wax for marketing purposes.

[Stella1952]

brainwashed suggestions that the government should require listing the ingredients in the candle wax as though people are going to freakin' eat it.

People freakin' breathe the fumes from a burning candle (the fuel and the FOs and additives used) and people freakin' touch those candles with their skin! So, yeah, I'd say that folks have a right to ask and to expect an honest answer to the question: "what the heck is in that stuff, anyway?" That MANY industries don't want to voluntarily inform consumers is a matter of business ethics that should raise eyebrows in suspicion... Personally, I don't think the government should HAVE to require labeling and ingredients on ANY products - it should be done voluntarily as a matter of respect for the rights of the consumer by the producer. Trouble is, there are a whole lot of folks in business who don't want to bother or to reveal their ingredients and they are not going to do so voluntarily until they are forced to do so by law. That's a danged shame...

Consumers care about what the candle wax is made of because candlemakers told them they should.

I disagree. Perhaps a percentage are asking because of that motivation, but I think more people ask because they are reading and hearing about how candles can pollute their inner environments and have a negative impact upon their health! Whether consumers buy into the line of bull from the soy industry, the petrochemical industry, the vegan industry, the tropical oils industry or the whaling industry is totally superfluous to the issue of honestly answering the question: "what's in that stuff, anyway?"

WHY people are asking questions is not as important as the fact that they ARE asking questions and they deserve an honest, direct answer.

The reason we are not still burning beef tallow in a shallow lamp with a piece of twisted fibers stuck into it is because we LEARNED, which happens directly after people start becoming discontent and asking questions and seeking better solutions.

[Tereasa]

the person who stated that has a history of being shady. From charging people extra money to add more FO, and then not actually adding the FO to 'borrowing' names. I think that is where the post originated.... in the misleading of people. And, it wasn't you, Carole! I'm not insinuating you are one iota less than completely ethical.

[topofmurrayhill]

That MANY industries don't want to voluntarily inform consumers is a matter of business ethics that should raise eyebrows in suspicion...

Dramatic, but as a candlemaker I don't give that the time of day. Candles are made of candle wax. It's some combination of ingredients that have customarily been used in the industry for decades. The consumer has no basis for assessing which ingredients are preferable and the particular formula used has no bearing on their health. The idea of the government getting involved in that is beyond ludicrous.

I'm not addressing the issue of fragrance oils. That's between the government and the fragrance industry. They sell me something I can use in candles and that's all I know.

My ingredient list is candle wax, fragrance oil and dye. That's about as interesting as it's going to get. If I use a blend that contains soy shortening, I may call it a soy candle based on whatever standard I care to adopt.

[Guest Candelishis]

It's kinda like the whole Aquafina water thing..a lot of people are raising cane because it was recently brought to light that Aquafina water is basically tap water run through a brita filter...it doesn't say "filtered tap water" on the bottle. However, it does say "purified drinking water". (I am drinking a bottle right now...that's what made me think of this). IMO, water=water. I personally think that all the exotic waters from springs in the Himalayas, etc, taste funky. But, there are some people who felt betrayed because Aquafina didn't say on their bottles "This water came from a faucet in New York City"...so they are now trying to get the company sued. I think it is crazy, but it's marketing..people are more likely to buy a bottle with mountains on it that looks like natural spring water, rather than a bottle with a faucet on it that says "this came from a tap in new york". Not dishonest at all, but some people see it that way. I can think of a few products that I use that if I found out they were not made of what I thought they were, I might be inclined to switch brands.

[justcountry]

well now I'm not calling either side of the fence:o or is that ither:undecided oh well anyway ,but what do you say when 2 people are in the store asking for a different candle:shocked2: and they both hear this description:laugh2: :laugh2:

[Oh-MYo]

As a witless consumer I may not know the actual properties of various waxes but I do understand the word "blend"

If having recieved an answer such as "soy blend" without further explanation, I would deduce that the person either doesnt know what it is blended with, is trying to actually hide part of the truth or just wants me to fork over my money or go away and stop asking questions.

In short, someone whom I would not buy from.

Any time a customer actually shows enough interest to ask a question they are handing you a golden opportunity. Why not treat it as such?