Why do people do this?

[bathandsoap]

I came across this page where this person was bashing melt and pour soap, but why? I understand how hard and long the process is of cp and hp soap making. I know having toddlers myself, I couldn't work with the lye at this point in my apartment. But, making melt and pour can be really creative and time consuming. Anyhow this is what was wrote, I was just curious as to what others think...

Many popular bath and body chain stores claim their soap is ;handmade; when what they are really selling is a pre-made, packaged glycerin or milled soap base (aka 'melt-and-pour soap') that is melted on a stove top or in the microwave, poured into molds, then sold as real handmade soap. It is not. Some soap bases even add in a little goat's milk, olive oil, or shea butter to make the soap appear more attractive. Still, it's not real handmade soap. In fact, it's not even soap--it's a detergent. How about liquid body washes and shampoos? Yes, they're detergents, too. While containing some glycerin (a moisturizing by-product of real soap), a look at the ingredient list of these formulas reveals that these products are filled with synthetic moisturizers, foaming agents, and thickeners.Real soap doesn't need synthetics. Real soap is fresh and nourishing to your skin.

(edited name) handmade soaps are the real deal. We make soap using the cold process method; from scratch, using a recipe of quality oils and butters. Now back to the ingredients... Check out this comparison of (edited name)handmade soap ingredients and what you get in those packaged soap bases.

(edited name) Soap

Coconut Oil-moisturizing; creates rich, fluffy lather

Olive Oil-attracts external moisture to skin; high in vitamin E

Palm Oil-conditions the skin; produces a stable lather

Sweet Almond Oil-moisturizing; high in vitamins A, B1, B2, B6, E

Shea Butter-superior moisturizing, protects skin from moisture lossGlycerin-naturally occurring by-product of real soap; moisturizing

Packaged Soap Base

Glycerin-naturally occurring by-product of real soap; chemically removed to make packaged soap base; moisturizing

Sodium Stearate-derived from stearic acid (see below); detergent; can remove natural oils from the skin

Sorbitol-derived from synthetic alcohol; used to thicken the soap base

Propylene Glycol-derived from natural gas; synthetic moisturizer; can irritate sensitive skin

Sodium Laureth Sulphate-detergent; makes the soap foam; can be drying to the skin

Stearic Acid-wax-like fatty acid; used to make the soap base harder

Sodium Chloride-i.e. salt; used to thicken the soap base; can dry and irritate the skin

Too often the word "handmade" is used as a buzz word, a gimmick, to fool you into believing that the soap is pure, fresh, and better. Real handmade soap is not a gimmick. It's the real deal. Know what you're getting before you buy. Your skin can tell the difference!

[sudsnwicks]

I came across this page where this person was bashing melt and pour soap, but why?

Why? Because they are selling CP soap. It is a very common thing to see people bashing something in order to promote their own product. Not the right way to market, that's for sure, but it's still a very common way.

[Crystala25]

Why? Because they are selling CP soap. It is a very common thing to see people bashing something in order to promote their own product. Not the right way to market, that's for sure, but it's still a very common way.

I agree, they are just trying to make there product seem like its better. I don't agree with this type of marketing, but if thats what they choose to do to make themselves feel better, thats all on them.

[CareBear]

I always thing it's better to tout the positives of your own product than bash another. But it's a very successful marketing technique. Works in politics too.

For what it's worth - I can't make MP soap for anything - looks like crap. It's an art I have not mastered.

And so far I haven't used an MP soap that didn't make my eczema flare up (I think I'm sensitive to the SLS, can't use commercial soaps either, just CP/HP) - but i'm in the swap to try a zillion of them to see what I can find out.

[soapermom]

Why? Because they are selling CP soap. It is a very common thing to see people bashing something in order to promote their own product. Not the right way to market, that's for sure, but it's still a very common way.

You said it. Its for self promotion.

I think a quality product can and does sell itself. You can capitialize on what makes your product unique or special.

I make all my B&B homemade, no bases. I do not bash people who use bases.. I do let people know it is not from a base.. but I do not go to the extent of bad mouthing. I myself, see no point or profit in that.

[Carrie]

Personally, I believe my CP soap is superior to MP soap. Would I go to those lengths to bash MP? NO! I've been known to make MP soaps too.

Is it any different than a soy candle maker saying that their product is superior and healthier than paraffin candles. No, it's no better but no different.

It's marketing. Plain and simple.

[beau's mama]

I came across this page where this person was bashing melt and pour soap, but why?

To scare ya' into buying their soap! :undecided

Ok, seriously, I've read this particular one before...and many others like it, but don't take it to heart. There are all kinds of things floating around about "this is good for you...but this is really bad for you...so use mine 'cause it's really good for you". I use a M&P base that's made from the same ingredients that some crafters use to make cold/hot process soap with. I also use cold process soap...they are all wonderful to me & 100% better than anything I have ever brought from a regular ol' store! And as far as I'm concerned, once that base gets into my hands, it's MINE, and whatever I create is "handmade" by me! And the author is dead wrong...not all M&P bases contain detergents and other garbage...good example as to why people should research & know before they start spreading untrue info!

Not much help in answering your "why" question...JMHO

Sharon

[beau's mama]

...I can't make MP soap for anything - looks like crap

Damn, could I possible get an ugly bar of soap? Don't worry, baby...eczema bar coming your way!

OK, hijack over...let's get back to bathandsoap's question!

Carry on!

[CareBear]

sweet!

[Scented]

Peeps bash cuz they can. Won't catch me doing it. I think there's a lot of fun and good stuff that can be made out of M&P.

[bathandsoap]

To scare ya' into buying their soap! :undecided

Ok' date=' seriously, I've read this particular one before...and many others like it, but don't take it to heart. There are all kinds of things floating around about "this is good for you...but this is [i']really bad for you...so use mine 'cause it's really good for you". I use a M&P base that's made from the same ingredients that some crafters use to make cold/hot process soap with. I also use cold process soap...they are all wonderful to me & 100% better than anything I have ever brought from a regular ol' store! And as far as I'm concerned, once that base gets into my hands, it's MINE, and whatever I create is "handmade" by me! And the author is dead wrong...not all M&P bases contain detergents and other garbage...good example as to why people should research & know before they start spreading untrue info!

Not much help in answering your "why" question...JMHO

Sharon

I too think that getting a base and making it your own is considered handmade, IMO. Thanks for everyone's opinions, it makes me feel a lot better about my soaping.

[blazerina]

Seems like if you go by this person's description of what is NOT handmade... then by the same line of reasoning, neither is cp.. .neither is ANYTHING that you don't go out and dig up from the earth and somehow manipulate to use in something 'truly' hand made. She didn't make the lye. She didn't harvest the oils..... she certainly doesn't chemically create each component of the FO in it's entirety... what's the difference. She merely put together her own soap base. And you can use all those cp ingredients in Mp...so what--?-- then we can at least call it 'partially handmade'?

Sometimes if people would just stand back and listen to their own words, they would see where they bite themselves in the butt. I think this person probably has a complex about how good their stuff is and feels they need to pump it up by putting other's down. That, or they have an exagerated sense of self importance, lol.

When I first came here and had played with MP, I had read all the difficulties of CP- and I respect that. And even felt a bit humbled that I 'only do mp'. But the more I read the more I realize that those who REALLY KNOW what they are talking about... understand that A: it's not always so easy to make a good MP soap, B: it's to each his own and not everyone has the desire or willingness for one or the other. There are really experienced CP'ers who won't even attempt MP. Just like bathbombs... simple enough in theory! But then why are there so many threads of peeps sharing their failures at it?

I don't mind the simple statement that one is 'better' than the other. That's expected, but man this person went WAAAY out of their way, lol.

[mountainmadness]

I agree that people need to be careful about the marketing. It is better to talk about what makes your products so good and not bash another.

I think where the tension is amoungst the M&P and the CP people is HONESTY. I do admit that I am offended when M&P people do state that their soap is handmade from scratch. I think that it is very misleading to customers that have no clue about soap.

I started with M&P and I do not believe that it is easy. It takes a very creative person to make beautiful bars. I understand the lye issue with people with animals and children also.

Plain and simple, we all have our own feelings on what we like. Respect each other, respect the art in each different method and do not mislead when you are marketing.

Jennifer

[beau's mama]

...And even felt a bit humbled that I 'only do mp'. ...it's not always so easy to make a good MP soap

Yep & yep...and yep to the rest! I felt the same way for a minute...but I realized that using a base was no different that using flour,eggs etc to make a cake...you still have some level of knowledge as to what the heck you're doing...and you still learn each time.

And I've also learned that dogging out others craft/talent is really a personal problem...can we say "complex"??

[mountainmadness]

I felt the same way for a minute...but I realized that using a base was no different that using flour' date='eggs etc to make a cake...[/quote']

We can agree to disagree... I respect what you are saying but I cannot say that there is no difference in making a cake (flours, eggs, etc.) and using a cake mix.

To me, the outcome is the same or close to the same but the way that you get there is different.

Jennifer

[Crystala25]

My two cents... If you make it without a base you are making it handmade from scratch, if you are making it with a base it is still handmade just not from scratch. Same with the cake mix, if you make it from scratch, then handmade, with a box, still handmade just not from scratch. That's just the way I see it.

[beau's mama]

We can agree to disagree... I respect what you are saying but I cannot say that there is no difference in making a cake (flours, eggs, etc.) and using a cake mix. To me, the outcome is the same or close to the same but the way that you get there is different.

Jennifer

Yes, we can & yes, it is.

[doris]

I don't think that it is always necessarily that they are bashing something to make their own look better, I think that often it is because when a person makes something of quality from scratch, they feel differently about things made from mixes or bases or whatever. I would sooner eat no cake than a cake from a mix; why I couldn't tell you, because some of the cakes I've made were worse than anything a mix could produce. I truly love handmade things, adore knitting with my handspun wool even when it is lumpy, and especially love knitting with handmade needles. There's such a human connection. I'm a partner in a craft store, and all our finished crafts are handmade: there is nothing from a kit, even though we do use patterns and tools etc. We have a lot of tourists, and at a time when tourist-related stores in my area are hurting, our store's sales have gone up. People love to come in and talk with the people who are making the things they are buying.

I love my handmade soap, and have no intention of ever using M&P; however since joining this board I have become much more tolerant of people who do use it. I now consider it a different way of making soap; I just prefer my soap "from scratch".

[CareBear]

I buy products that I like and that work for me. What's more,

I buy high quality products made from high quality ingredients. Who put together the ingredients at what point is pretty irrelevant to me. I like the look of handcrafted, I like reading ingredient names I understand. These are things that appeal to me. Whether it's froma premade base or if the final crafter mixed it all is neither here nor there - for me.

but that's just me!

[jazzbo848]

i think of mp as "handcrafted" and cp/hp as "handmade"....

cheryl

[eugenia]

My two cents... If you make it without a base you are making it handmade from scratch, if you are making it with a base it is still handmade just not from scratch.

I respectfully disagree. Soap made from scratch is hand made. Soap made using a premade base that is altered is hand crafted. I personally never have and never will bash MP soap crafters. It's a different product. End of story.

[prairieannie]

LMAO!! I haven't seen this argument come up in a long time!! I think the last time was on the last board maybe?

I make both MP soap and CP soap, and there is not a single person here who will convince me that one is better than the other. I sell WAY more MP soap now than I do CP, because most of my die hard homemade soap customers now prefer the homemade MP that I sell them over any other soap. We're talking people who have used homemade soap for years! Go figure!

As for the original question.. why? Just like many others have stated here, it's a matter of marketing for the most part, although there will always be those CP soap makers who are offended by the MP soapers who call their product homemade, and that's just a fact of life! Most of us have agreed to disagree there, and at least within the confines of our community here we don't get too worked up about it.

[Crystala25]

i think of mp as "handcrafted" and cp/hp as "handmade"....

cheryl

I make both cp and m&p, so I'm not biased either way. I just don't agree with someone bashing on the way people make there products just because they don't make there products that way. To me handmade and handcrafted always meant the same thing, but in the reference you are using I can agree with one being handcrafted and one being handmade.

[sudsnwicks]

Soap made from scratch is hand made. Soap made using a premade base that is altered is hand crafted.

I see your distinction but am not sure the average jane (who does not make soap) would see it. Because if you look these 2 words up in the dictionary they pretty much mean the same thing.

[prairieannie]

I see your distinction but am not sure the average jane (who does not make soap) would see it. Because if you look these 2 words up in the dictionary they pretty much mean the same thing.

EXXACTLY!! LMAO!!