Pam W Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I was asked today to make close to 100 pillar candles, all different sizes, shapes & colors (w/o FOs) for a restaurant. The owner intends to put shelves across a large wall & have tons of candles to light for private dinner parties & various special functions. It will create a unique atmosphere for the guests & I'm thrilled at the chance to display my work, etc, etc, etc BUT extremely concerned about safety. I know the candles will not be tended by the staff - they'll be lit & forgotten for maybe up to 4 hrs. I've been suppling the restaurant w/candles for almost a year & none of the staff will take the time to trim a wick or give a little hug so I'm visualizing all kinds of disasters.The old brain is spinning with if, ands & buts. Every time I solve one possible scenerio another pops up............I know I don't want anything smaller than 3". Should I wick down a bit so that the candle will tunnel & flood out after 3-4 hrs? Should the candles be set inside large bowls in case of blowouts? hummmm...don't know how the draft will be against that wall I'm in the restaurant at least twice a week & can pull & replace any candles that look abused. The owner is a very good friend & he's just sunk close to $1mil into the purchase & remodel so I'd have to slit my throat if there was a fire I welcome any comments, concerns, dos & don'ts regarding this type of project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 You have some interesting challenges. Not sure if this helps or not but when I include a candle holder with candles, I make sure that it is one with a rim, just incase of overflow and that it is about 1/4 in larger in diameter. Candleholders with spikes add to the stability as well. I also try to test pillars by burning them for five to six hours at a time. As for wicking, you might want to wick down. For example, recently, I have been testing HTP wicks for a 3" candle I want to sell. I have found that for me, under ideal conditions, a HTP 83 wick is super. The HTP 73 also burns well, but leaves a little larger rim. So I am going to wick down to the 73 because I know that many don't hug their candles or straighten the wicks as they burn. Hope these suggestions help. Sounds like an exciting project. The owner should also be made aware of dangers. The only thing that I find interesting is adding FOs around food aromas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dallas_Texas_Dean Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Honestly, I would suggest that you discuss your concerns with the owner. I think he will appreciate you looking out for him/her and will show that you are professional and concerned for his guests and staff.I would propose simple, clean and classy containers ( possibly balmoral).I think that they are less worry and safer when people are too busy to watch over them.Also, IMHO, I would always suggest scent-free for a restaurant so that they will not interfere with the aromas of the food.I know that this is not what they asked for but I would talk it over and see what they say.Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraInNY Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 all different sizes, shapes & colors (w/o FOs) for a restaurant. He does want them without fragrance.I would talk to the owner maybe he can assign someone to be candlewatcher? I know probably not realistic in a busy restaurant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alohagirl Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Hi Pam. Congratulations on the big order. I make lots of unscented pillars, all sizes, shapes and colors. I've found that wicking is easy when you're not using fragrance oil or mineral oil. For example, a 2/0 square braid works great in all my unscented 3" round pillars no matter which wax or recipe I use. They don't curl or mushroom, so I can marathon burn without babysitting the wick. And as long as there's no draft, they don't get blow outs.As for safety issues, you mentioned they'd be placed on shelves on a wall. For one thing, wallboard and paint are flammable, so I'd be concerned about how close they'll be to the wall. Also, if a shelf is placed above another shelf, heat will build up from the candle below. A wood shelf could catch fire and if it's a glass shelf, the heat will make it crack. (Unfortunately I learned this the hard way.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groovy Chic Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 You might consider using an additive to slow down the melting. I make a pillar and add beeswax to my formula and it will literally burn all day without any blowouts. Beeswax added gives me a nice, slow burning candle with the added bonus of a great scent throw. (which I know isn't revelant to you since yours will be unscented). Anyway, just a thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy_Light Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I don't know if this is possible but I read someone messed up and used hurricane wax for a pillar and it burned very slowly... maybe that would help with the time frame and what not. I would still put them on something large enough to catch the wax and make sure there are no curtains or anything flamable around the candles as i can see a fire hazzard galore with that. Other then that I can't help much but congrats on the big order and hope all goes well.HUGS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 thanks for all the responses. You all picked up on my concerns very nicely...great minds think alike, as the old saying goes. Adding a little BW had crossed my mind and containers would be the safest was to go. First thing I'm going to do is go have lunch in the restaurant today, set up some 5' candle holders against the wall & watch the draft. Temps here in Phoenix are running close to 115* so the A/C will be kicking on a lot. We do have one employee that is so into candles that she burns her candles all the way to the tab...since I do their payroll I think I can work out a little incentive to make her the official 'candlewatcher' & I'm going to check out the placement of fire extinguishers and find out how the shelves will be installed.....then I'm going to browse the antique stores in search of some unique containers......I love shopping w/other peoples money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtngrl Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 One thought that occurs to me is to write up a document listing proper candle handling, along w/ precautions, & have the owner sign & date it. One lesson I keep learning in life is CYA - COVER YOUR A$$. Devra's comments about wooden shelves immediately suggest to me that decorative metal shelves could be used. I wonder if it would be feasible to have a metal piece adhered to the wall where the candles will burn ... kinda like kitchens have "back splashes" to keep water from running down the wall. Maybe even a mirror to help bounce the candle light into the room.One type of candle you might want to consider making are pillars w/ a hard, outer wax shell & then fill it w/ a container wax. Those would probably be more work than they're worth, but it's a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 What about hurricanes? They would be safer for a longer period of time, need no trimming, and look similar to pillars. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 tested the draft against the wall & it wasn't too bad but I did find out that there is a person called a Fire Marshall...duh!! Can't have open flames -- any candles must be in containers which is obviously the only safe way to do this.Attaching a pic of 'The Wall'. Just to the left of the wall is a huge window that will shortly be replaced with windows that open onto an open-air patio...more draft to consider...so again, using containers is the only way to go. There is a candle holder standing in the middle against the wall -- it is so exposed that it goes beyond scary!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraInNY Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Just think of all the different containers in shapes and sizes. The possibilities are endless!! I think you'll do a great job. Please show pics when you get it set up. I love the mirror idea by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 I like mirrors too. When you burn your candles in front of a mirror, you get twice the bang for your buck. Browsed the antique stores all afternoon & found some neat things, i.e., crystal & cut glass vases & pitchers large enough to hold large pillars..wondering what beer pitchers & mugs w/floaters would look (wouldn't have to worry about the wick trimming) .....sooo many possibilities!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted July 21, 2005 Author Share Posted July 21, 2005 Well this is turning into the experience of a life time. Had a sit-down with one of the owners (not the one that's my friend) and he wants candles that blowout or as he puts it "run over & drip"...he has a vision of many candles w/wax dripping down the sides & over the edge of the shelf. The shelves will be 12x12 stone tiles w/one side embedded in the wall, each will be staggered so that no shelf is directly above the other. Maximum weight that each stone tile will hold is 1 lb. And he assures me that the 'open flame law' doesn't apply to candles...so I'll do it his way & laugh my butt off when the fire marshall issues a citation!!After all the hours I've spent learning how to make a candle burn properly Thanks for all your input & I'll post a pic when the wall is completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malaki Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 all i have to say is wick down to be safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alohagirl Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Unfortunately, wicking down won't give the owner the drippy look he wants.He wants a wall full of open flames, huh? Guess what's gonna happen when some woman comes along who likes to go heavy on the hairspray, and she stands a bit too close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 Devra, you're so right...there are so many unknowns that could cause problems. I've been thinking (stressing) about this and have come up with a possible solution. If he wants the drippy look, it could be created up front.... I could personally create the wax stalagtites(?) hanging from each shelf. After each candle is poured & pulled from the mold, wax could be drizzled over the top & down the sides of the candles. Will make a few to see how it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatCandleMaker Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 You might want to have the OWNER sign a release of liability too. That way if something happens with the candles that he is "commissioning" you to make to his specifications, he cannot hold you liable.Just a thoughtDat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 Dat..thought about that. The shelves won't be installed for a while so I have time to address the situation w/the other partner prior to placing the candles in the restaurant. But you are soooo right about the release of liability. I spent many years in the insurance industry & learned that you really need to CYA even when you don't think there is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniedb Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Hey Pam! I'm in Phoenix too - well, actually, Gilbert. I'd love to know where your friend's restaurant is, so I can drag my husband down there. If you feel comfortable sharing, would you PM me the name? I'd also love to see your handiwork on the shelves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 daniedb: PM's ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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