Rustic Layers

[Mozzie]

All right, I give up - what's the secret? How do you get the second and third layers rustic when the pouring temperature is 10deg higher than the first pour? As I understand it, it's pouring cool that causes the rustic effect. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. TIA. BTW, I use straight paraffin wax (plus fo and dye).

UPDATE: It worked! To see your new creation (well, you all had a hand in it's birth), follow this link: http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=3661

[SatinDucky]

Personally I don't raise the temp with each layer. I just don't let them set up all the way and poke the holes all the way through. Those who do usually say to only go up 5 degrees or so and to start out with a very low temp to keep the final temp from being too hot for a rustic finish. Course, mine don't turn out great either...LOL. Hopefully someone else will chime in here

[Mozzie]

Course, mine don't turn out great either...LOL.

Thanks, Satin, I think that you're just being modest. LOL:grin2:

[tucker]

These things are driving me crazy as well. TRISH makes the most beautiful RUSTICS in the world. HOW SHE DOES IT IS A VERY CLOSELY GAURDED SECRET. I'll be watching this post with anticipation. Good luck girls.

[eugenia]

All right, I give up - what's the secret? How do you get the second and third layers rustic when the pouring temperature is 10deg higher than the first pour? As I understand it, it's pouring cool that causes the rustic effect. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. TIA. BTW, I use straight paraffin wax (plus fo and dye).

Mozzie, I pour each layer at 150 but I make sure that the layer has not set up completely before pouring the next. By that I mean that the wax will have formed a "skin" but will not be totally hard; if you move the mold, the wax underneath will jiggle. This way the wax will bind together; sometimes it breaks through the layer beneath, creating cool effects.

The only time that I pour the wax hotter is if the layer has set up completely, ie, the final pour or if I get interrupted. I don't poke my relief holes until all the layers are poured. You can pour the final pour as hot as you want as it won't show anyway.

e

[Mozzie]

Thanks for all the tips, girls (apologies if there were any boys in there). I'll give them a try tomorrow and let you know how they go.

[DanaE]

Just wanted to add a ditto. I pour all my layers at 150, and do the pours before the previous layer has cooled. There's a skin on top but it isn't completely cool. At first I waited too long and then the pillar would come apart in pieces when I took it out of the mold .

I don't poke relief holes until after the last pour. I poke them all the way through and fill with hot wax, which I'm sure helps hold all the layers together also.

Have fun!

DanaE

[Trish]

These things are driving me crazy as well. TRISH makes the most beautiful RUSTICS in the world. HOW SHE DOES IT IS A VERY CLOSELY GAURDED SECRET. I'll be watching this post with anticipation. Good luck girls.

Tucker! You know darn well it's not a closely guarded secret! LOL On the old board, I PM'd you EVERYTHING I do!! Maybe you should call me and I'll walk you through it.

I pour my first layer around 145 and up about 5 degrees for each layer. (I tend to do 3 layers) Since most of my layers are tilted, I have to wait a little longer before I rotate the mold to do the second layer or it gets ruined!

Sometimes however, depending on how full my third (and last) layer is, it'll slightly mottle even if the temp is only 160. Not what I want usually but still looks pretty neat!

[gerrie]

I asked this exact question about 6-8 months ago, but can't find it when I did a search. But Alan said that I needed to place a cold rag around the mold when I got to the top few layers. Made sense to me but I never did try it again so I can't say if that works, but I bet it would. I find it interesting that none of the others here do that. I use aluminum molds and soon as you pour that wax into the chilled mold it heats the rest of the mold up, so the cold cloth would help keep it cool.

[Tanya]

Mozzie, I pour each layer at 150 but I make sure that the layer has not set up completely before pouring the next. By that I mean that the wax will have formed a "skin" but will not be totally hard; if you move the mold, the wax underneath will jiggle. This way the wax will bind together; sometimes it breaks through the layer beneath, creating cool effects.

The only time that I pour the wax hotter is if the layer has set up completely, ie, the final pour or if I get interrupted. I don't poke my relief holes until all the layers are poured. You can pour the final pour as hot as you want as it won't show anyway.

e

Ditto what e says

[Pam W]

I've been wondering the same thing. If I pour 2nd layer while 1st layer is still warm then the mold is warm and NOT cool - so no frosted effect on the 2nd layer. Sooo, I found a way to work around that -- just before I pour the subsequent layers, I rub the mold w/ice cubes to chill it a little. Might sound dumb but it worked for me.

[DanaE]

I've been wondering the same thing. If I pour 2nd layer while 1st layer is still warm then the mold is warm and NOT cool - so no frosted effect on the 2nd layer. Sooo, I found a way to work around that -- just before I pour the subsequent layers, I rub the mold w/ice cubes to chill it a little. Might sound dumb but it worked for me.

This has just never been a problem for me and I'm not sure why. I just pour at 150 and all the layers come out rustic. The pillar might be just a tad warm after the first pour, but by the time I'm ready to make the 2nd pour it's cool enough that the wax immediately begins to set up. I've never had a problem with the mold being too warm to make the rustic effect. Then again, I make them in the basement, so the temp down there could have something to do with it.

DanaE

[topofmurrayhill]

Regarding the matter of pouring successive layers hotter (or any instance where you hear "pour so-and-so many degrees hotter that previously"), this has never made sense to me. What seems relevant is simply the temp of the wax you're pouring, and the temp of the wax you're pouring onto, not what temp you poured previously. Maybe it's relevant for some reason I'm not understanding, but I don't think the wax remembers or cares what temperature it was poured at (at least not for the purpose of binding layers or repour wax).

[SatinDucky]

Regarding the matter of pouring successive layers hotter (or any instance where you hear "pour so-and-so many degrees hotter that previously"), this has never made sense to me. What seems relevant is simply the temp of the wax you're pouring, and the temp of the wax you're pouring onto, not what temp you poured previously. Maybe it's relevant for some reason I'm not understanding, but I don't think the wax remembers or cares what temperature it was poured at (at least not for the purpose of binding layers or repour wax).

I've always wondered that myself. The only answer I've ever seen as to why, was that it's supposed to help the layers adhere to each other. As of yet, nobody has ever explained WHY it supposed makes the layers adhere better. Guess that's why I've never done it, I need facts

[topofmurrayhill]

OK then, Satin and I hereby declare it's bullsh*t until proven otherwise!

[eugenia]

For the first and last time, I poured Rustics in 2 stages. Just plain ran out of time. Poured the new layer at 180 the next day. Had to trash the lot (8); they all split, so go figure!

e

[Tanya]

I have never up the temp when doing layers, I just have to be diligent about when I pour each one otherwise I have gotten splits.

[Mozzie]

I don't think the wax remembers or cares what temperature it was poured at

You know, that makes so much sense. I've often wondered how it remembers without ever questioning whether it actually does or not. I've even felt like I was CHEATING when I did my votive repours EVEN COOLER than the initial pour temp (still having trouble getting my wax to reach high temps when there is very little in the pot) and just felt lucky that it seemed to work. LOL All right, fess up, who else has cheated and got away with it?

[sharyl55]

Just curious. Haven't made a pillar yet but am keeping notes for when the time is right. Seems the majority, according to my notes, stress pouring the next layer before the previous layer has set up, i.e. thin film over wax which you can see moving around. And poking relief holes all the way to the bottom layer after the final pour to help bind the layers together. Seems to make sense.

[Tanya]

Just curious. Haven't made a pillar yet but am keeping notes for when the time is right. Seems the majority, according to my notes, stress pouring the next layer before the previous layer has set up, i.e. thin film over wax which you can see moving around. And poking relief holes all the way to the bottom layer after the final pour to help bind the layers together. Seems to make sense.

Works for me LOL

[DanaE]

Just wanted to agree that I don't normally pour my next layer hotter than the previous one. When I first started making candles (1999) I did, because the instructions I printed out said to do so.

Did it that way for a while but eventually I came to this conclusion....the wax only needs to be hot enough to meld the layers together. So, if the wax's melting point is 145, and I poured the first layer at 180, I can pour the next layer at 180 because it's hot enough to melt some of the previous layer. That's all you need, just hot enough to make sure the layers stick together.

When someone would ask me how to make candles and I'd give them instructions, along with doing the repour 10 degrees hotter, I actually thought I was giving solid advice. Once I realized it didn't matter and didn't really even make sense I felt stupid for just automatically following what I'd read. I guess though, that's all we can do at first.

We won't discuss the fact that I didn't know the bottom of the pillar mold was the top of the pillar mold for about a year. In everything I'd read, every candle instruction site, I'd never run across a comment saying specifically that the bottom was the top. Spent many hours working on getting beautiful flat tops. Now I don't know how I did it, or how I had the patience to do it... (my 1st pillar molds were used and were flat on the bottom so to me the top and bottom looked about the same).

All of this was a couple of years before I found the message boards. So I had plenty of candle instructions and read a dozen sites on how to make different candles and pouring temps and such, but no real people to ask specific questions about candlemaking.

DanaE

[tucker]

Thank all you lovely girls and (guys) it's all clear as mud to me now. My first problem now is the fact that I have a cade of 4625 comming today for RUSTIC pillars and now find I should be using 1343 (which doesn't seem to be available in Canada) Back to the drawing board I guess.

[Margaritamama]

You can use 4625 for rustics - I was working on it yesterday, and last night finally got beautiful rustics out of the mold. Somewhere else on this site people have mentioned that they've used 4625 quite successfully.

[Fern]

Any straight paraffin wax (no preblends) will make rustics...it doesn't have to be 1343. As for the pouring each layer 10 degrees hotter...that's how I learned to do the layered rustics myself and you know what? You're absolutely right, you don't need to pour each layer 10 degrees hotter than the last. I have given instructions to newbies to do this but it really isn't necessary as long as you don't let the layers set up too long. I guess since the process always worked successfully for me, I just kept doing it...even when I didn't have to.

[eugenia]

as long as you don't let the layers set up too long.

That's the key point right there!

e