I'm so confused.... waaaaaaah

[Michi]

I knew there was a reason I hadn't tried making CP soap as of yet. Everytime I start reading about it, I just get confused, I can't figure out how to read the calcs. and I can't retain in my head which oils/butters are good for what, and how to combine them for a good bar of soap!!!!!

So I got this recipe off MMS's site, then I put it in THEIR lye calc. just so I can figure out how to use it, etc. and now I'm more confused than ever.

Here's the chart:

Liquids

water For the size of fat batch that you are using, we recommend that you use approximately 4 to 6 fluid ounces of liquid. WARNING: Always add your solid form lye, sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide, to the liquid. If the liquid were added to the solid form lye a violent reaction could result. This means you could have a "volcano" erupt out of your container.

Fats & Oils

FatAmount

(oz wt)% in

recipeCoconut Oil425.00Olive Oil425.00Lard850.00Total Weight16 Lye Table (KOH)

% excess fatLye Amount

(oz wt)03.3513.3223.2833.2543.2153.1863.1573.1183.0893.05103.010% to 4% excess fat range: Proceed with caution! We do not recommend this unless actual saponification values are known and used. 5% to 8% excess fat range: This is the range we use most often. 9% to 10% excess fat range: Creates a softer soap because of the amount of excess fat.

Ok, the original recipe taken from same site, said to use 6oz. water and 2.25oz lye.

Now putting that into THEIR lye calc. the chart shows waaay different #'s than that?????

WTF??

Ok, I may never figure this out, I just cannot retain any of this for some reason, and what I read doesn't make sense to me.

I feel like crying.

[Michi]

Ok, that chart did NOT come out so maybe if I just post the link to it:

http://www.the-sage.com/calcs/lyecalc2.php

[Bunny]

Ok, first, your batch size needs to be at least 2 lbs. I know it seems a waste when you're just starting out, but it's an absolutely must for it to work and gel correctly especially when starting out.

Second.. Breathe...

Third, that's the reason you should always always always run a recipe given to you through a lye calc. No matter what.

Fourth.. Breathe...

Fifth.. Check out this link for a beginners way to create a recipe. http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3164

Sixth. Grab a glass of wine and breathe!!!

[Crafty1_AJ]

Looks like your recipe is 25% coconut, 25% olive, and 50% lard. Go to this link:

http://www.soapcalc.com/calc/soapcalc.asp

and plug in your numbers. Find the oil in the list of oils, click on the one you want, then go to the right side and click the + sign. Then add your percent next to it.

When you've added all three oils, click "Calculate Recipe" button under the place where you entered your oils.

It will give you the recipe in both oz. and grams, including the amounts of water and lye you need. This is for a one pound batch, and for 5% superfat. You can change those values if you want up at the top before you click "Calculate Recipe" if you want a larger batch or a different superfat number. Personally, I'd recommend you stick with 5% superfat for starters; that gives you a good safety margin in case your measurements are a tiny bit off.

This will yield a fairly hard bar since you're using 75% hard oils. If you want it to be a little more conditioning, you could try 25% coconut, 25% lard and 50% olive oil. The thing I like about this soap calc site is that you get the numbers on conditioning, bar hardness, fluffy lather, etc. and it also gives you a breakdown of your fatty acids. These may not mean much to you as a beginning soaper, but eventually you will find a bar you love and you can use it as a benchmark for your new recipes (try to get similar numbers with different oils).

HTH!

[Michi]

Still confused!!!!!

Ok, I used Bunny's link, and basically used everything she used (sorry if I wasn't supposed to copy) and this is what I came up with:

15% palm kernel

15% coconut

15% lard

5% shea

10% castor

10% avocado

10% SAO

2% OO

Put in the calc. that you gave AJ, and I'm more confused now, seriously I feel like a complete idiot that I cannot understand what I'm reading. I do not see where it says to use this amount of water and this amount of lye, just a ratio.

I understand what superfatting is, but don't understand how this recipe has that????

I'm never gonna get this, why is it so hard for me??????

Ok, stepping away from this (AGAIN) taking a breath and a break, going to pick up my daughter at her friends, and then I'll come back, and see what ya'll have to say to help this tard!!!

[OutlandishLady]

I second the wine idea, lol! I worked for hours on my first recipe. Turned out OK What stuff do you have to work with (oils butters etc)?

Oh and it helps to have an iPod (or similar item) prepared for when you actually MAKE the durn stuff

[Bunny]

Ok.. Superfat 101..

We're going to use a 5% superfat, as it is the most common and for simplicity's sake.

When you have 100% oils, and want a 5% superfat, you'll only use enough lye to saponify 95% of the oils. This leaves 5% free oils and leaves no chance of having a lye heavy soap. Lye heaving meaning there is more lye than the oil needs to make soap, and there will be actual lye left in the soap.

On MMS's calc, just use the lye number next to the 5% mark. On soapcalc/sooz it's automatically set at 5%.

[Rebecca_IA]

Michi, don't worry. You'll get it. Sent you a PM.

In the beginning, I liked MMS's lye calculator because there was less information. Even after soaping for a few years, www.soapcalc.com seemed very overwhelming to me, and I knew and understood all of what is on the form, it's just a lot and for my brain, it's difficult for me to absorb and get used to so much info at the same time. Now it's nothing and I actually perfer it.

[Crafty1_AJ]

OK, hun, here's an idea. Just keep it super simple. That recipe has LOTS of ingredients. Nothing wrong with that, but you can make AWESOME soap with just lard, coconut and olive. Or olive, coconut and palm. My recommendation would be to keep it simple, especially at the start. You can always play with ingredients after you've gotten the basics down.

Hang the lye calculators. I'll go put the numbers in myself and give you a simple, easy recipe, k? You just follow the recipe and trust AJ. LOL

Edited to add: Shot you a PM with a simple recipe and directions. I'm assuming you're familiar with basic lye safety and soapmaking procedures? Wear goggles and gloves ... after you add the lye to the water, mix briefly while holding your breath and leave the room for a couple minutes ... identify "trace" by turning off your sb and lifting it out of the batter, dribbling a bit on the top surface to see if it's leaving a "trace" ... etc.

Happy soapmaking! Holler if you need any more help!

[Kaybee23]

I was using the MMS calc. but am now using the soapcalc and I like it much better. I understand you being nervous. I was so nervous before I made my first batch too. I read a lot on the millersoap site and even used a recipe off of there as my first soap recipe and it really turned out to be a great bar.

[Gypsyjen]

Hi Michi! The best way to start soaping is with a simple recipe, follow it to the letter to get a feel for CP soapmaking. I agree with Kerry, there are some good recipes on the Miller soap site that you can just follow and not worry about it. I'd recommend not worrying about color for at least your first batch, you have enough to worry about with when to mix in the scent, what does trace look like, etc. We're all here to help you!

[Michi]

First off thank you everyone for being here for me.

I was reading Miller's site all morning (all of their recipes are HUGE), and then clicked on a link I guess for MMS, found a recipe and thought, "Always run it through the lye calc, even if someone else says it's a tried and true recipe" See I've been listening to you guys!!

So, then I just got overwhelmed.

The first recipe I posted, I thought WAS an easy one, 3 ingredients, then someone else said it wasn't good, so then I went to Bunny's link...........

I think if I didn't have to look at the calc. and remember what this number means and what that oil's #'s are, I'd be ok, ya know?

It's all these #'s, you know, "if you want a hard bar, it must be this number, but if you want conditioning it must be THIS number" and so on and so forth. It's enough to make my head spin.

I can read (and have read) about all the oils and butters, etc. and try and remember which ones have which properties, but if I have to remember all these friggin' #'s, well then forget it.

If i have to convert from ounces to grams, can't do that with my scale, and I'm just getting more and more irritated about the whole thing.

I just want to say, "ok, I want to make a nice hard moisturizing bar, so I'll try these oils and butters and I'll scent it with this, and I'll need this much lye and water for it and then DO IT.

I don't want to be having to flip from this page to that calc. and back again to remember the #'s and all that.

Does this make any sense?

See, this is the reason I haven't done it in all this time, I start reading and think I'm ready to try it, find a recipe, then get to the calc. and throw my hands up in frustration and quit before I even begin.

I think part of the reason I get sooo frustrated with all the overwhelming information, is because I have ADHD, and get so overwhelmed with all the info. and it just doesn't compute for some reason.

I know you all are trying to help and I really appreciate it, but if I can't read these things on my own and know what I'm reading or looking for etc. how will I ever do it on my own?

UGH, I knew, I'm just not organized enough for all of this.

[Crafty1_AJ]

I think part of the reason I get sooo frustrated with all the overwhelming information, is because I have ADHD, and get so overwhelmed with all the info. and it just doesn't compute for some reason.

Ah, now I understand completely. My dd also is ADHD, and when there are gobs of details coming down at once, she just can't handle it. Can't sort it out or make sense of it. Just shuts down. Like a deer caught in the headlights.

Well if you got my PM with my recipe and instructions, maybe that would help? Just go slowly, take it step by step. Hang in there!

[Bunny]

You forgot the glass of wine didn't you!

Just make a batch of soap. Pick a recipe, any recipe. Once you get the first batch done, a lot more will make a lot of sense to you.

[Rebecca_IA]

Michi, take AJ's recipe, the one she PM'd you and whip it up. Rather than focusing on all aspects of soap making at once, focus on just a few. Don't worry about what oils to use or how much lye or water to use. I am sure AJ gave you a very reliable and workable recipe.

And you still are doing it on your own. You're getting the measuring down, the melting, the mixing the lye into water. Then blending the lye mixture into the oils and learning what trace it. Hell the first batch or two, you don't even have to add FO to it. Just learn the process. Worry about the rest of it after you learn the process.

We have ALL gotten lots of extra support and assistance in our journey of learning this craft. And IMO, this is the best part, passing the art on. No matter how you learn, many out there will be more than happy to help you find a way that works for you. We all learn differently, we all teach differently.

[Crafty1_AJ]

Yes, what Rebecca said! If you can follow a recipe and cook, you can make soap. If you don't care for the recipe I PM'ed you, no sweat! As others suggested, just go to Miller's site and pick a recipe from there. The work's been done for you on the calculations and bar qualities. Just let 'er rip and get a feel for the process. Or use one of the simple, basic recipes in Alicia Grosso's "Everything Soapmaking Book" if you have a copy. Or use a simple Cavitch recipe if you have her books.

Honestly, when we all started, we most likely "borrowed" another's experience and just used one of their tried and true recipes. Don't expect so much of yourself this early in the way of recipe development; that will come later. For now, I'd recommend just using a good ol' standby recipe, go step by step, and wait until you've got a bit more experience under your belt to worry about building your own recipes from scratch.

You don't understand all the chemical reactions that take place when you make a cake, right? Neither do I, but I can still bake.

Hang in there, hun! If worse comes to worse, you can always fly to Kansas City and I'll walk you through it in person. LOL

[quietgirl2004]

Michi, sent you a pm.

[hawaiiansun]

Michi if I can do this anyone can trust me, and I've made 2 batches this week. Well I think they came out ok lmao Kind of soft but I'm being patient and optimistic and letting it cure.

I read Miller's and Robin's instructions and prayed a lot and asked for help a lot more.

If I didn't run out of oils I'd prolly have made more but I have to reorder now.

Good Luck to you and me :rolleyes2

[Michi]

Yep, everyone is right, I just need to stop worrying about this or that and just do it. BUT, when I do try and change the recipe, I'm gonna be coming here asking for help with that damn lye calc. ;)My scale doesn't read grams though AJ, can you change it?I think I'm gonna have to buy a better scale, cuz right now mine only goes to the tenths place, and already I see that's gonna be a problem. :(I was hoping I could do it this weekend, but my mom AND my grammie are coming to visit me (last minute self-invite by my mom ), and I want to be ALONE when I do this the first time at least.Ok guys I'm off to bed now-FINALLY!!

[Crafty1_AJ]

The smaller the batch, the more important to be precise, and grams are more precise. But if all you have is a scale that does ounces, I'll confess to you right here and now that my first several batches of soap were made successfully using ounces as the measurements instead of grams. It can be done. Just be careful to get as accurate as possible.

Here's the recipe in oz.

8 oz. coconut

8 oz. lard

16 oz. olive

4.5 oz. lye

9 oz. distilled water

Edited to add directions, in case you lost them. Reminder: Never use aluminum equipment for soapmaking. ALWAYS wear goggles when working with lye and raw soap batter. AJ sez don't fudge on that one. LOL

1. Weigh out your water into a plastic pitcher.

2. Don your goggles and gloves. Weigh out your lye into a separate container.

3. Pour your lye into the water and stir, holding your breath as you do so. Leave the room for a couple minutes to allow the fume cloud to dissapate. (Or you can do this outside, or crouched down while mixing with the water/lye mixture under a stove vent on HIGH.) Check to make sure all the lye is completely dissolved.

4. Pop a thermometer into your lye water.

5. While waiting for your lye water to cool, weigh out your hard oils (lard & coconut). Gently heat until just melted -- don't let the oils get too hot.

6. Weigh out your olive oil and add to the melted oils. Pop a thermometer into your oils.

7. Wait until both the oils and lye water are cooled to about 100-105 degrees.

8. Make sure those goggles and gloves are on. Carefully pour your lye water into the oils while stick blending. Careful! Don't splash!

9. Continue stick blending until a smooth emulsion is formed. This should happen fairly quickly. Now you want to continue to stick blend until you can see that you've reached trace. To test for trace, turn your stick blender off. (If you're a klutz like me, you might even want to unplug it. LOL) Raise the sb out of the batter and dribble some soap batter onto the top surface. If you see little blobs of soap batter that sit on the top surface for a second, then sink back in, you're good to go.

10. Carefully pour your soap batter into the mold. Let it sit for 12-24 hours, then unmold & cut into bars. Let it cure for several weeks, then hop into the shower and lather up proudly with your very first bar of soap!

Edited to add: I chose these amounts because the measurements are simple. I chose these oils because coconut will give you good lather, lard is inexpensive and makes a nice bar, and olive is conditioning and will also contribute to bar hardness. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible, and use ingredients found at a local Wal-Mart Supercenter. LOL Also this recipe has a good balance between hard oils (coconut & lard) and soft oils (olive), so the ratio is 50-50. If you don't want to use animal fats, you can substitute palm oil for the lard, but now you'll probably have to order online 'cos it's a lot harder to find palm oil in stores. LOL

I tried to keep this as simple as possible, but still let you make a decent bar of soap. If you try this, I'd love a sliver of your first batch, grasshopper!

[Crafty1_AJ]

The above recipe is unscented and uncolored to make things as simple as possible. Many soapers recommend beginners start with an unscented, uncolored batch. However, I'm a classic overachiever and don't always listen well. ROFL. I've scented and colored right from the start. For those of you who may be reading this and are classic overachievers like me, here is a brief overview on adding scent & color for beginners.

SCENT: If you decide to add scent, do it at step 6 after you add olive oil. Use about 2 oz. and make sure it is a soap-safe fragrance that does NOT accelerate trace. I like this board to research new fragrances for soap to see if they will accelerate or discolor soap: http://scentreviewboard.obisoap.ca/

COLOR: If you decide to add color, that's a bit trickier because there are different types. If using powders such as oxides, you can stick blend those thoroughly into your oils before adding lye. Liquid colorants can be added right after you get a good emulsion going (after lye water has been thoroughly blended into the oils). Liquids are much easier for beginners, IMO. No fooling around with trying to get the powder clumps out. LOL

HTH! Now everyone go and make some soap!

[slow-burn]

Good Luck Michi, you can do it I am still very new to soaping, but if you count all my mistakes, I should be a pro I was the over achiever that AJ mentioned, and I was bound and determined to do it myself. I was totally confused on the calc, but honestly, you don't need to know alot about them numbers right now. It will all harden with time, and a good cure Trying a recipe that is tried and true is a very good recommendation, especially for the first time. That way, you know how it is SUPPOSED to act. Then when you make your own, and realize, uh-oh, this isn't supposed to do that, you will notice the difference.....and still have faith in your abilities. But it does tremendously help to make the first one a recipe that works well with no Accelleration! That recipe that AJ gave ya sounds great! I have had a few mention to me that to start out the KISS method is great, Keep It Simple Stupid, LOL! That fit me to a T Or it could be Keep it Simple Soap

I have found that when doing my own recipes now, that I still seem to like less better. I dont' try to add a ton of them, cuz if I can be happy with less, then my checking account smiles

[shutterbugg]

You Can Do It!!

[Kaybee23]

Were all pulling for ya Michi, I know you can do it.

[Carrie]

Hey Michi

You can do this. Forget about what the hardness etc is. You have to make soap before you can calm down enough to advance. Playing with the lye is half the battle for a beginner. The rest will come with time.

Remember making candles with your kit. You had a million questions but until you actually made a candle none of the answers really made a lot of sense.

You can do it. Please, take bunny's advise and breathe and take AJ's advise and wear goggles.

Have fun and can't wait to see what you come up with. You are soooo creative and artistic. You will do well with soaping, I'm sure of it.