Sherie Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 For those of you that use SLSa in your bath bombs, milk baths, etc, do you find it to be drying to your skin? Or a better question, if it doesn't effect your skin, does it have the potential to cause drying? It doesn't seem to affect my daughter but it really affects me, just curious. Thanks so much for your opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Some people do find it irritating, but it is the mildest surfactant of that type Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberia Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 SLSa is a plant derivative (coconut and palm). By its nature, hydrophilic, it is going to break up oils whether it be in the bath water or on your skin. That is one of the main characteristics of this particular surfactant. However, that being said it is probably the most skin friendly surfactant due to the size of its large molecular structure. The smaller the molecular structure, the farther it can penetrate the dermis layers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherie Posted March 18, 2006 Author Share Posted March 18, 2006 Thanks Gene & Kimberly! I really appreciate the info. Maybe, I'm just sensitive to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMommy Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I find that after using bath bombs that contain it I am slightly itchy. Not sure if this will help but here is some info. that was posted a while back.http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16211&highlight=SLSI've been using soaps and shampoos without sulfates and I find them to be better for my skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann M Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I have read that you should not use more than 21% SLSA in products. It was once thought to be safe up to 30%, but the recommendation is now 21%. I use it in a dry milk bath and also in some foaming bath melts. It does not irriatate my skin, but maybe that is because I slather myself in one of my lotions or creams after!!! Yet while in the bath I don't feel itchy.Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I've recently started to make bath bombs and got some SLS just this week to try. I've only done two batches with it at 3% and haven't had a chance to test those bombs with the addition of the SLS. You guys mention much higher percentages that what I added. Do you think at that low of a percentage (3%) it will be noticeable in my product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinInOR Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I've done 2 different recipes with SLSa. Both used it at the same amount, but one didn't have any citric acid in it. Interesting for me was that the recipe I use now, with citric acid, makes me itch a little bit more than the one without. Did you get SLS or SLSa? They are completely different ingredients... not sure how many bubbles you'll get at 3%, but you should be able to tell it's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherie Posted March 18, 2006 Author Share Posted March 18, 2006 Hi Robin, funny you mentioned citric acid being "itchy". I was trying to decide if it was the SLSa (which is what I have) or the citric acid. I'm thinking about doing a batch without SLSa and one without the citric acid to see if I react the same way. My skin just kinda feels really dry, tight and kinda itchy after I use the mixture. I have pretty dry skin anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I've done 2 different recipes with SLSa. Both used it at the same amount, but one didn't have any citric acid in it. Interesting for me was that the recipe I use now, with citric acid, makes me itch a little bit more than the one without. Did you get SLS or SLSa? They are completely different ingredients... not sure how many bubbles you'll get at 3%, but you should be able to tell it's there.I used Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate - which one would that be? What is the difference? I didn't realize that they were two different things. I used some of my left over bath bomb ingredients to make a small bomb that I used in the sink today just to see how it would do. I did notice more bubbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherie Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Hi Meridith, Sodium Laurel Sufonacetate is SLSa, a mild surfactant and it does make bubbles. Robin is going to have to jump in here to explain the difference but I did find this link that says SLS is used to increase viscosity and foam characteristics. http://www.chemistrystore.com/sodium_lauryl_sulfate.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Sulfoacetate and Sufonacetate - the names are so very close. It's hard to keep it straight. MMS' website said the Sodium Laurel Sulfoacetate was used in bath bombs to increase bubbles so I also wonder which one is better for use in bath bombs and why. I can't wait to hear what our resident experts have to say. I learn so much from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherie Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Girl, I didn't even notice the "n" in the second one. I have the Sodium Laurel Sulfoacetate. Sorry about that and I haven't used the SLS so I have no experience with that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 LOL So than I have the SLSa?? What is SLS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMommy Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Someone please correct me if I a wrong but I read the Cosmetic Ingredient Review that it stated ""Although Sodium Lauryl Sulfate is not carcinogenic in experimental animals. It has been shown that it causes severe epidermal changes to the area of the skin of mice to which it was applied. This study indicates a need for tumor-enhancing activity assays." Conclusion - "Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate appear to be safe in formulations designed for discontinuous, brief use followed by thorough rinsing from the surface of the skin. In products intended for prolonged contact with skin, concentrations should not exceed 1 percent." So wouldn't that mean that the use of a higher percent might lead to some sensitivity such as the itching some of use mentioned? Plus if it is used in products that we soak in not alot of people are going to know that they need to be followed by thorough rinsing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahlf Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Why not try Sodium Cocosulfate or SMC Taurate instead? Both are available from The Herbarie and are mild surfactants. I made some bath cream and bubble bars using them and a friend with sensitive, dry skin fell in love with them. They leave the skin feeling wonderfully conditioned afterwards!HTH,Sarah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinInOR Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Someone please correct me if I a wrong but I read the Cosmetic Ingredient Review that it stated ""Although Sodium Lauryl Sulfate is not carcinogenic in experimental animals. It has been shown that it causes severe epidermal changes to the area of the skin of mice to which it was applied. This study indicates a need for tumor-enhancing activity assays." Conclusion - "Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate appear to be safe in formulations designed for discontinuous, brief use followed by thorough rinsing from the surface of the skin. In products intended for prolonged contact with skin, concentrations should not exceed 1 percent." So wouldn't that mean that the use of a higher percent might lead to some sensitivity such as the itching some of use mentioned? Plus if it is used in products that we soak in not alot of people are going to know that they need to be followed by thorough rinsing?What you quoted was for sodium lauryl sulfate and ammonium lauryl sulfate. We're talking about sodium lauryl sulfoacetate, which is completely different. don't let the similarity of names make you think they are the same, SLSa is much more mild, that's why we use it instead.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMommy Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thanks! The whole issue is very confusing to me. Especially since the names are so similar. So none of the problems associated with sodium lauryl sulfate and ammonium lauryl sulfate( epidermal changes to the area, brief use, less than 1%...) apply to sodium lauryl sulfoacetate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinInOR Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Well, there's lots of misinformation out there even on the SLS, lots of "sky is falling" type of websites. Anyone can be allergic or sensitive to ingredients, so I'd never say "none of the problems apply....", but SLSa is definately more gentle and doesn't have the % limitations. You'll find SLSa listed in http://www.cir-safety.org/staff_files/safeasused.pdf as safe up to 21%. And remember that for a bath bomb, that would be the % in the tub itself. It's diluted in 20 gallons of water And Sarah gave some other surfactants as well. I wouldn't call these "natural" ingredients in the usual sense of the word, if you care about things like that, but I feel they're safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahlf Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Thanks Robin!The surfactants I mentioned are coconut-derived also. Are any of this type of surfactant actually "Natural"?Sarah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinInOR Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 It doesn't quite fit my definition of natural (meaning minimally processed from it's source form), but it's not that far. Depends on how you define "natural" I guess - lots of different definitions.I was curious about how SLS was created, and found this http://www.shikai.com/publications/sodiumLaurylSulfate.htm Sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS) is a detergent which is commonly used as a cleansing agent in all sorts of personal care products. It appears in toothpastes, shampoos, bubble baths, shaving creams -- any product that requires suds. It is very effective and also very cheap. Most SLS is made from coconut oil because it is rich in the fatty acid called lauric acid. The production of SLS begins with heating coconut oil in water in the presence of sodium hydroxide. This converts the coconut oil into fatty acids (lauric acid and glycerin). The fatty acids are next converted into fatty alcohols by a process called hydrogenation. These fatty alcohols (lauryl alcohol) are waxy materials that are excellent moisturizers. For example, cetyl alcohol is a commonly used and effective moisturizer in lotions and creams. Lauryl alcohol is then converted into lauryl sulfate by a process called sulfonation. In the final step, lauryl sulfate is reacted with sodium hydroxide to produce sodium lauryl sulfate. When lauryl sulfate is reacted with ammonia instead of sodium hydroxide you have ammonium lauryl sulfate. Likewise, when triethanol amine (TEA) is used, you have TEA lauryl sulfate. Both of these are also commonly used cleansing agents. It's basic chemistry. I'm sure there are huge factories that do this in bulk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahlf Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Robin, you're a mine of information! I'm not going to get into a debate on "natural" as there's one on preservatives on a UK group at present!As regards the surfactants, I think it's a case of choosing the one that's good for your skin and making sure it's not other ingredients causing the problem!Sarah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinInOR Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Yup, exactly LOL, I bet the UK group is rockin' natural and preservatives "discussions" always cause high feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahlf Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Too right! I've said my piece and am now keeping out of it! They're discussing the Suprapein-type ones versus Parabens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherie Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 Why not try Sodium Cocosulfate or SMC Taurate instead? Both are available from The Herbarie and are mild surfactants. I made some bath cream and bubble bars using them and a friend with sensitive, dry skin fell in love with them. They leave the skin feeling wonderfully conditioned afterwards!HTH,Sarah.Thanks Sarah, I will definitely check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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