464 Soy Wax for summer weather

[Fahmighazel]

Hi All!

 

First of all, hope you all are doing great despite the pandemic! 

It's my first time here on this platform and I have a list of questions with regards to candle making, using 464 Soy Wax in hot & humid weather.

 

I'm from Singapore and the country is located near the equator and has a typically tropical climate all year round. In addition to the tropical climate, Singapore has high humidity as well.

I have been experimenting with candles for 6 months now (still experimenting) & recently decided to work with 464 due to the excellent HT, as described by the company i purchased the wax from. 

 

Through testing, I noticed the following:

 

1) The HT isn't great. I used 10% fragrance load & I bought the scents from Candle Science

2) The wax is extremely soft, even after curing it for 1 week

3) The wax looks horrible after each burn, leaving the top look like planet mars

 

Measures I have taken to make my candles:

 

1) Given the humid weather, I turned the AC to cool the room temperature

2) I burn the wax up to 185F, add the fragrance oil immediately and then pour the wax into my container jars at 150F to obtain smooth tops 

3) I add 10% pure coconut wax to help increase the HT, but i read some forum stating that coconut wax will make the wax softer than before

4) I cleaned the jars beforehand to ensure that the wax adheres to the glass (it works!)

 

Questions:

 

1) Given that i live in a hot & humid weather, should i add additives such as stearic acid to make the wax a little bit harder? I heard adding stearic acid will decrease the HT  Please advise if this is indeed true!

2) Do you recommend using 444 soy wax as i heard that it's a better option for summer weather?

3) Lastly, are there any methods to ensure that the 464 soy wax candle looks good after burning? 

 

Thank you in advance people & stay safe!

 

 

[TallTayl]

Welcome! Hot, humid climates are the most difficult to work with wax. The rate of cooling has so much to do with how a candle sets up after pouring. Internal crystal formation can play a big role in how candles burn and throw. If the candles cool too slowly, the crystals tend to be larger and can allow fragrance to gravitate toward the lower part of the candle. 
 

curing a soy candle before burning makes a huge difference in hot throw. If burning too soon the wick choice and burn will be misleading. crystal formation continues for weeks (and longer) in soy wax. 2 weeks is typical for a soy candle to show you how well it is wicked for HT.
 

the planet Mars tops is just how soy wax is. Most people committed to soy wax just learn to live with it. 
 

if pouring for appearance in the jar (top and glass adhesion) don’t ignore what is inside, under the surface.  Many burn issues stem from internal cavities that form during cool down that make wicks appear to not be sized correctly. 
 

pure coconut “wax” does not exist at this point in time. coconut wax blends begin with hydrogenated coconut oil (melt point of 92*F) then are amended with other waxes and additives to make it work as the manufacturer wishes in different combinations. Adding 10% coconut oil to 464 will be problematic in hot, humid climates. Some marketed coconut waxes are primarily soy with coconut oil added. You really need to dig in and figure out the mystery of each wax. The manufacturers are not very transparent about the products being sold. 

 

going the other direction with stearic acid will also make burn issues. Stearic acid narrows your wick choices as the has its own set of issues. Stearic acid is either animal source or palm source. Usually palm source. It is a fraction of palm oil. it can cause cracking with soy and is much harder to burn than most other waxes.
 

Palm waxes are derived from many different fractions to form specific crystal patterns in the final candle. Small % in soy combined with the right wicks chemically treated to withstand the nature of the palm acidity can work. It takes time to figure out the magic combination. 
 

I suggest, instead either C1, which is a popular soy wax already combined with 20% of a palm wax, or C1 a soy wax with soy additives for your climate. I was never impressed with 464 and learned that marketing copy is a powerful thing. Both have similar Mars surface issues after burning since they are primarily soy. Both burn and throw better for me than 464 ever did, and withstood fluctuations in heat and humidity at outdoor events very well. 

[BusyBee]

1) Given that i live in a hot & humid weather, should i add additives such as stearic acid to make the wax a little bit harder? I heard adding stearic acid will decrease the HT  Please advise if this is indeed true!

Theoretically, adding stearic acid to 464 would be problematic since 464 already has enough in them.  In reality, I did not see any noticeable problem, but I also did not see any improvement adding more to 464.

 

2) Do you recommend using 444 soy wax as i heard that it's a better option for summer weather?

If outside weather is around 40C, then the biggest problem using low melt point wax would be transporting candles to another location.  Even if full blown air conditioning cars are to be used for transportation, it is going to cause problems.  And I have a feeling that 444 would have same problem also.

 

3) Lastly, are there any methods to ensure that the 464 soy wax candle looks good after burning? 

Only way to achieve clean top after burn is to use the right wick in 464.  There are only few that provides clean top after burn, and when you get clean top after burn then that wick will gives you the best HT also.

 

Since you are in Singapore, you might have access to pure coconut waxes over there that we in US are not aware of.  That is something that we don't have in US.  So, I don't have any clue what pure coconut wax would do to 464.  But adding 10% pure coconut wax might cause more problem in hot weather since pure coconut wax is supposed to be close to oil.

 

Below are pictures of 464 after burns.  Other than these, Helix wick would provide decent top(not as good as these) after burn and will produce decent HT.  All other wicks on 464?  Forget about them!

*First one has 4% palm wax in it, and I get mirror like top after burn with better HT.

 

Stay safe and good luck with your candle venture!

[Fahmighazel]

13 hours ago, BusyBee said:

1) Given that i live in a hot & humid weather, should i add additives such as stearic acid to make the wax a little bit harder? I heard adding stearic acid will decrease the HT  Please advise if this is indeed true!

Theoretically, adding stearic acid to 464 would be problematic since 464 already has enough in them.  In reality, I did not see any noticeable problem, but I also did not see any improvement adding more to 464.

 

2) Do you recommend using 444 soy wax as i heard that it's a better option for summer weather?

If outside weather is around 40C, then the biggest problem using low melt point wax would be transporting candles to another location.  Even if full blown air conditioning cars are to be used for transportation, it is going to cause problems.  And I have a feeling that 444 would have same problem also.

 

3) Lastly, are there any methods to ensure that the 464 soy wax candle looks good after burning? 

Only way to achieve clean top after burn is to use the right wick in 464.  There are only few that provides clean top after burn, and when you get clean top after burn then that wick will gives you the best HT also.

 

Since you are in Singapore, you might have access to pure coconut waxes over there that we in US are not aware of.  That is something that we don't have in US.  So, I don't have any clue what pure coconut wax would do to 464.  But adding 10% pure coconut wax might cause more problem in hot weather since pure coconut wax is supposed to be close to oil.

 

Below are pictures of 464 after burns.  Other than these, Helix wick would provide decent top(not as good as these) after burn and will produce decent HT.  All other wicks on 464?  Forget about them!

*First one has 4% palm wax in it, and I get mirror like top after burn with better HT.

 

Stay safe and good luck with your candle venture!

Hey BusyBee!

 

Appreciate your response and the things you have mentioned is extremely informative! The picture of your candle with 4% palm wax looks amazing! Would like to ask you a few questions if i want to mix 464 with 4% palm wax:

 

1) What is the brand of your palm wax? 

2) At which temperature do you take the wax out from the boiler? 

3) Temperature to mix the FO & pouring temp?

 

Moreover, I noticed you use wooden wick but also said "Helix wick would provide decent top(not as good as these)", so which wick do you use that results to your beautiful after burn tops in the photos? 

 

Thank you so much for your insight and help. Appreciate it a lot!

[BusyBee]

@Fahmighazel

 

I use IGI R2322 Glass Glow Palm, but I think other palm wax would work also.  Little bit of Palm wax increased HT of 464 a lot, but too much(more than 10%) will decrease HT.  I heat 464 to 180 to 182F, and add FO some where in between 175 to 180F.  I get nice finish pouring at 130 to 135F, but I started to do 2nd pour because it gives me more beautiful mirror like finish top 100% of the time.

 

2nd picture is booster wooden wick, and 3rd is tube wood wick with ECO wick.  But I don't use them in real production since wooden wicks are so unreliable. 

 

Wick in 1st picture is not a wooden wick.  It works nicely for 464 with 4% palm wax mixture.  It is paper wick sold only in South Korea.  http://gelcandleshop.co.kr/shop/shopbrand.html?xcode=050&mcode=001&type=Y  It's kind of pricey, and candle suppliers in South Korea do not have capability to send them out of their country.  So, I had to use forwarding service to get them to US.  Due to its high price I cannot use them in my regular candle lines, so I use Helix for most of 464/palm candles.  This paper wick did not work well for 100% 464 as is.  It needed thicker wick for 100% 464, but stock paper wick works well with 464/palm mix.

[BusyBee]

One more thing to add!

 

I am in favor of using max FO (I put 12% FO because my area is really dry.), but you might want to try to put less FO (about 6 to 8%) due to your climate condition.

[candlesinflorida]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:00 AM, Fahmighazel said:

Hi All!

 

First of all, hope you all are doing great despite the pandemic! 

It's my first time here on this platform and I have a list of questions with regards to candle making, using 464 Soy Wax in hot & humid weather.

 

I'm from Singapore and the country is located near the equator and has a typically tropical climate all year round. In addition to the tropical climate, Singapore has high humidity as well.

I have been experimenting with candles for 6 months now (still experimenting) & recently decided to work with 464 due to the excellent HT, as described by the company i purchased the wax from. 

 

Through testing, I noticed the following:

 

1) The HT isn't great. I used 10% fragrance load & I bought the scents from Candle Science

2) The wax is extremely soft, even after curing it for 1 week

3) The wax looks horrible after each burn, leaving the top look like planet mars

 

Measures I have taken to make my candles:

 

1) Given the humid weather, I turned the AC to cool the room temperature

2) I burn the wax up to 185F, add the fragrance oil immediately and then pour the wax into my container jars at 150F to obtain smooth tops 

3) I add 10% pure coconut wax to help increase the HT, but i read some forum stating that coconut wax will make the wax softer than before

4) I cleaned the jars beforehand to ensure that the wax adheres to the glass (it works!)

 

Questions:

 

1) Given that i live in a hot & humid weather, should i add additives such as stearic acid to make the wax a little bit harder? I heard adding stearic acid will decrease the HT  Please advise if this is indeed true!

2) Do you recommend using 444 soy wax as i heard that it's a better option for summer weather?

3) Lastly, are there any methods to ensure that the 464 soy wax candle looks good after burning? 

 

Thank you in advance people & stay safe!

 

 

I live in Florida *thus the name* and I use 444, especially in the hottest months. I have found that it eliminates the 464 humidity problems. I also add a little stearic or occasionally vybar (just a teeny amount) because I find that it makes the finish a little extra glossy and hard. I have not noticed that it hurts hot throw. With that said, I think UPS shipping might be a little more air-conditioned than Usps...I could be wrong about that...but I have had some baaaaaad shipping/melting issues with usps especially when it has odd delays and the candle is sitting in a hot truck somewhere.