User Errors vs. Product Quality & Safety

[Laura C]

Hello fellow crafters.

Ok, so many of these issues have been discussed in separate threads but I want to address these in one post as simple as I can. Not trying to be mean, just telling it like it is. "You can't fix stupid" and/or User Errors vs. Product Quality & Safety. I'm referring to responsible, safety conscious, quality candle makers that have warning labels & candle usage instructions and not the get rich quick, wax slingin, candle making hacks out there, LOL! Just sayin! As a maker we can do everything right in our power but once the product leaves our hands it's up to the next person to do what is appropriate and sometimes the ball gets dropped but the maker can still get blamed. 😲

 

I just came across these horrifying candle reviews and charred product photos on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Aromatherapy-Scented-Candles-Maharaja-Caramel/dp/B01KU0IW1S/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=smells%2Bfabulous&qid=1603384861&rnid=2941120011&s=furniture&sr=1-5&th=1

 

I have purchased candles from this company before and their candles were pretty good from what I remember and I believe they have been in business for several years. While reading the product reviews and looking at the photos, the thing that jumped out at me was blatant User Errors, candle abuse and lack of common sense by the users/reviewers. It blew my mind reading the reviews and I'm sure the candle company thought the same things I did. People saying how they let candles burn until they burn themselves out (to the very bottom), etc. People not expecting a candle tin to get hot, people thinking candles should melt/burn every last drop of wax without a fire hazard, and the list goes on. Please read some of the reviews and you'll understand.

 

I feel sorry for the candle company having to deal with these situations. I also feel sorry for the customers and hate that they had these dangerous situations but they need to stop and think about what they are doing and maybe read directions or something, LOL. 👀 🔖 The candle company or maker can't go to their house and properly burn the candle for them. 

 

Whatta ya do, whatta ya do? LOL 😄

 

[TallTayl]

I am horrified by the pics.  To me (who has used tins for over a decade with soy) two things happened:

1: They did not use a safety wick tab. a 6mm neck height is standard. a 9 mm is even better  It forces people to not burn the last of the wax. This can cause a complaint, but better a complaint than a fire.

 

2: the charring indicates to me that fragrance pooled toward the bottom and ignited when the wax burned away. Anyone who uses the "add FO by flashpoint" method will have this happen at some point. SOy wax needs to hit a much higher melt point and FO add temp than many people want to admit. Fear of a little flash off while making is no reason to follow this dangerous trend. 

 

3: EDITING TO ADD A THIRD: possibly TOO MUCH FO.  I see a trend on other groups to add 12% and sometimes more FO. Candle waxes are not going to always perform optimally with more.  It creates a whole new set of burn and fire hazard issues.

 

4: Editing again because I am on a roll: Overwicking. A lot of their less than stellar reviews are for incomplete burn and "wasted wax". Someone possibly wicked up to burn all that wax and ended up causing a new issue. This is possibly combined with too much FO that also pooled.

added pics because there had to be a logical reason in there:

 

All of these reasons is why we makes must always perform power burns for each combo of wax/wick/fo.

 

OK, a 5: and I think I will be done: Test your new lots of wax, FO and Wicks.  I am seeing too many posts on candle groups that candles on the retailer shelves are now burning MUCH hotter than the originals.  I know I know baseline tests are boring.... 

 

 

ALSO my candleistas, please test in different temps. I make candles for my relatively cold area. My test temp is 70*F. I sent testers of new FO in 4627 to people in Utah, LA and Michigan. Every single one of them had higher ambient temp than me. All of them burned on the verge of dangerous.

[TallTayl]

I noticed the double wick placement on the larger tins is toward the outside. WOW that will get hot in a flash.

[Laura C]

Hi @TallTayl, I see what you are saying and you bring up some good scenarios. And yes, those photos were very scary. 🔥 🕯️🧯

[TallTayl]

Just now, Laura C said:

Hi @TallTayl, I see what you are saying and you bring up some good scenarios. And yes, those photos were very scary. 🔥 🕯️🧯

I get super anxious when I see things like that. It makes me question every candle that goes out my door, despite having done the homework...

 

I added to my top three in case you missed the edits while you responded.

 

Taking a few eep breaths into a paper bag now. lol

[Laura C]

1 minute ago, TallTayl said:

I get super anxious when I see things like that. It makes me question every candle that goes out my door, despite having done the homework...

 

Exactly, you can do everything right as a maker but once it goes out your door, who knows what happens. Breath easy, didn't mean to make you anxious, LOL.

[TallTayl]

Just now, Laura C said:

 

Exactly, you can do everything right as a maker but once it goes out your door, who knows what happens. Breath easy, didn't mean to make you anxious, LOL.

The thing each of us needs to do is get into a habit of better record keeping. When something happens, or if accused of something happening, investigators will ask to see our records.

 

The best defense is a good offense. Batch testing, proof of testing, standards for pass/fail,  etc. 

[Laura C]

23 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

ALSO my candleistas, please test in different temps. I make candles for my relatively cold area. My test temp is 70*F. I sent testers of new FO in 4627 to people in Utah, LA and Michigan. Every single one of them had higher ambient temp than me. All of them burned on the verge of dangerous.

 

That's interesting info, I've wondered about that, different temps and elevations as well.

[TallTayl]

5 minutes ago, Laura C said:

 

That's interesting info, I've wondered about that, different temps and elevations as well.

It is the #1 reason why I will not use 4627 or 4630 any more. 6570 is a close third as it is primarily soft paraffin with a dab of coconut thrown in for label.

 

let’s talk about valid user errors. I’ll start,lol. My other half was burning a candle in the wood  shop ON HIS WORK TABLE WHILE WORKING. Of course it got tipped over and hit the floor. It burned for a bit before he noticed. It was a tin so no smashed glass, thankfully. And it burned itself out pretty quickly after it tipped, so no harm.

[ErronB]

I wick my tins so that they don't ever get a full melt pool until the bottom, I can pick it up at any time during the burn and not worry about it being too hot. I've never had a problem like those pics even after power-burning all night. Of course there's more to it than that, but there is so much stupid out there I have to presume nobody is going to ever trim a wick. I would rather have someone complain after they kept trimming the wick too short and have a tunneled candle than some of those horrific scenarios. 

 

I'm not saying that all of these bad things are happening due to inexperienced chandlers, but with all the changes in materials lately it does make me wonder if they're actually testing anything instead of being more concerned about getting the stock out the door faster. 

 

I actually had the same thing happen to me as TallTayl while using 4627 and that's why I stopped using it. Was a shame really because the HT was huge was it seemed to have a mind of it's own which was nothing to do with cure time.

 

Then that brings me to the whole wooden wick thing, we thought this was bad, but the inconsistencies with the Wooden Wick Co wicks cause things like this much more often.

 

 

[ErronB]

24 minutes ago, ErronB said:

I wick my tins so that they don't ever get a full melt pool until the bottom, I can pick it up at any time during the burn and not worry about it being too hot. I've never had a problem like those pics even after power-burning all night. Of course there's more to it than that, but there is so much stupid out there I have to presume nobody is going to ever trim a wick. I would rather have someone complain after they kept trimming the wick too short and have a tunneled candle than some of those horrific scenarios. 

 

I'm not saying that all of these bad things are happening due to inexperienced chandlers, but with all the changes in materials lately it does make me wonder if they're actually testing anything instead of being more concerned about getting the stock out the door faster. 

 

I actually had the same thing happen to me as TallTayl while using 4627 and that's why I stopped using it. Was a shame really because the HT was huge but it seemed to have a mind of it's own which was nothing to do with cure time.

 

Then that brings me to the whole wooden wick thing, we thought this was bad, but the inconsistencies with the Wooden Wick Co wicks cause things like this much more often.

 

 

Sorry fixed a type and it double posted lol.

Edited October 22, 2020 by ErronB

[bfroberts]

Wow.  Some of those reviews were obviously nit picks from people who do not know how a candle should perform or how to actually burn one for that matter.  Those are the kind of reviews that keep me from selling candles online.  But there is no denying, those burned tin pics are scary.  There is no shortcut for proper testing.  It isn't quick and it isn't cheap, but it's never time and money wasted.

 

[Marisa11]

 

29 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

It is the #1 reason why I will not use 4627 or 4630 any more. 6570 is a close third as it is primarily soft paraffin with a dab of coconut thrown in for label.

 

let’s talk about valid user errors. I’ll start,lol. My other half was burning a candle in the wood  shop ON HIS WORK TABLE WHILE WORKING. Of course it got tipped over and hit the floor. It burned for a bit before he noticed. It was a tin so no smashed glass, thankfully. And it burned itself out pretty quickly after it tipped, so no harm.

I came home to my other half burning a half full 26oz candle on the coffee table with black smoke, high flames, and the upper half of the jar was black. I'm like "Do you not see this, this looks OK to continue burning?"  This was before I started making candles but I was aware of candle care. So I told him that wicks always needed to be trimmed and what that candle was doing is opposite of what you wanted it to be doing. I keep wick trimmers and wick dippers around the house. Now when i'm testing he can look at a candle and tell me if it needs to wick up or wick down or he will announce the HT.