C-3 Very Disappointed

[karinz40]

I bought 5 pounds of C-3 to try

Using two 8 oz  candle tins so i could test burn and fo

I melted 15 oz of wax, melted to 180 anded 1 TBL  spoon of Coconut oil from Southwest candle (per instruction on bottle)

Added FO  1.5 oz Amazing Grace at 150  then poured at 140 and used  used NO COLOR

Four hours later I checked and the candles had a terrible  looking ratty top with some bubbles around the edges and some on top.

i  poked holes  and used heat gun to try to fix.

An hour later checked again,  One looked just ok and the other had a ton of little  baby bubbles over the top.

What the heck am I doing wrong?/

[NightLight]

C3 is not simply a melt and pour wax. You must pour according to chart somewhere in 160 degrees and you must know your ambient temp in room. I use a digital room thermometer so I know what temp my room is so I can adjust pour temp. This is not just for C3 but any wax. C3 is an amazing wax but it has a learning curve but if you have patience you will get candles with rock solid adhesion great cold and hot throw for soy. Other soys recommendation pour at lower temp not C3 if you want perfect tops.

c3 is known for champagne bubble in wax. You need to heat the wax up and wait for the the bubbles to dissipate.

[TallTayl]

C3 needs to be poured cool. You can get glass like tops easily by cooling the wax quickly in the pour pot In front of a fan while stirring gently periodically.  Pour when it begins to cloud. I used C3 for many many years in a shop that varied widely in temp and humidity. 
 

I use a wide spatula to stir.

 

if cooled too slowly it likes to grain. If stirred too vigorously C3 will gather bubbles.
 

 

[karinz40]

Thank you so much for the advise.  i will try again today and see what happens.

[NightLight]

Two opinions on pour temp. As you have poured cool then you should try hotter and use the chart for the wax. I only have troubles with the wax when it’s poured cool. Here are my pours of C3 both around 160. One burned and one not.

[karinz40]

They look Great.  Waht temp do you  put in your FO?

[karinz40]

I'll post pics of the one I just poured at 160 when cool

[karinz40]

OMG My candle is perfect!!! 

5 oz of c-3 fir 8 oz tin

Added 1/2 tsp coconut oil

Cooled to 160 and added .5 oz  mahogany teakwood oil

Stirred slowly with wide spatula for 2 minutes and it came out perfect!!

NOw the next test is the wick I will try in a few days

Thank you so much for the advise

[karinz40]

My C-3 first Candles

The two together are AFTER I used the heat gun.

The singel is perfect with no holes, bubbles perfect and ready for a wick test in a few days

[TallTayl]

The problem with foCusing on tops only with C3 is cavities.  Pouring hot often leads to pretty tops but massive hidden cavities. Until I got comfy with C3, I would excavate around the wick to see how problematic the hidden holes were.  Unfilled cavities lead to flares and wick failure. 
 

likewise pour temps for tins and glass jars are different. The glass people often need adherence to prevent wet spots. In tins it does not matter.  I wasted hundreds of hours fixing candles until I learned how the wax works. 

[karinz40]

Si I should poke holes to see if  cavities and then use heat gun or top off???

[bfroberts]

I’ve been testing C3 for about 5 weeks now.  I’m not an expert by any means, but I’ve experimented pretty extensively with pour temps.  For me, the tops are smooth poured around 160, but at that temp cavities are always lurking under the surface. Sometimes all the way to the bottom.  Pouring cool does eliminate the cavities.

I haven’t tried quick cooling in front of a fan yet because I’m only doing one candle at a time, and the wax cools quickly when there’s not much of it.  If/when I actually get into production, I’ll utilize the quick cool method.

 

[TallTayl]

10 hours ago, karinz40 said:

Si I should poke holes to see if  cavities and then use heat gun or top off???

I would even if just for learning purposes. Having had flares from so many soy waxes I just do it now to see what I’m up against. It would totally sink to have returns on candles for something as simple to prevent as cavities. 

[karinz40]

SO PLEASE tell me the proper way to do the burn test and then the burn with scent test with wick.'For some reason this is confusing after watching u tubes .

1.  Make candles with no wick and no fo and test the wicks in two or three?

2. Then make candles with fo and use the wick use tested that was best?

[TallTayl]

Here’s how I adapted to learning new waxes. Loads of people will disagree, or vary to some degree. 
 

choose a typical container I plan to use. Pour an uncolored, unscented candle. If the vessel is short, like a tin, I pick a best guess wick because the wax in short containers softens relatively quickly  and will tip the wick prematurely. If the container is taller than wide, I do not usually add a wick. Instead I will poke a hole with a skewer when it is completely cool.  This lets me discover any cavities and add a wick.
 

 Burn for the designated hour per inch of diameter. If at any point the wick is noticeably too large or small, extinguish, let cool, swap the wick, and light.  It takes several hours to fully cool the candle to get a somewhat accurate read on the burn. If the container required a tabbed wick, do a wickectomy (I posted videos  here and on YouTube. I will need to seek them out to link. )

 

if I think I found the right wick, and like the wax, I make a new candle with that wick and test burn. If it works from top to bottom I call it a win and mark that as my baseline for future candles. If I’m being thorough, I will make a third and power burn to make sure it does not become dangerous if left burning too long like a typical customer may. I tend to test untrimmed wicks since many people who swear their people always trim typically don’t. 

 

note, soy waxes will change a lot over the first several weeks. Testing too soon may lead to incorrect assumptions about fully cured candles. 

[karinz40]

WOW your so smart!!!!

OK got it

Will try tomorrow again

I was trying Eco 14 and 16 and one had a full melt pool after only 45 minutes but i think because I just madethem yesterday and they need to cure how long?before burning?

[TallTayl]

Give c3 a bare minimum of 2-3 days with no additives. A week is better. It will still “cure” and change for weeks/months but it seems most of the changes happen within 2 weeks 

[karinz40]

I'm not sure I have the patience for this.

So i will make three candles in tings no color no additive, no wick no fo.  Poke for hole and fill  and let them set for 3 days and then try the wicks out.  See which is best then make one with fo and same best wick to see if fo burns good.. How Long to cure before burning with the FO in there?  Same 3 days?

 

sorry for all the questions.  I just want to get it right

[TallTayl]

it may take several tries to find a wick. Parallel testing speeds things up but still takes time. I find with soy that three days will give me an idea of what works.  After a month or so that wick may end up too small. It is the nature of soy.

 

With FO, same rules apply.  It takes at least a week, preferably 2 to get a decent idea of what is going on with a soy combo. Soy chemically reacts with additives and may not throw at all within 2 weeks, but possibly will blow you away after three or more. THe total opposite may also be true. If it burns awesome on day 3, it may completely sputter out after a month long cure. (i learned that lesson a very hard way...) I have at least 200 failed tester candles in my "candle graveyard" that are results of "haste makes waste".  That 300 is what is left after removing wax from at least as many already. I had to switch gears weeks before summer faires pretty much every year due to problematic soy wax and supply chain changes. Learning the base wax thoroughly saves $ in the long run. I routinely parallel test 20-30 at a time to get things under way in time for opening day. 

 

"Fast, cheap or good: Pick 2" rules this process. You can have fast and good, but expensive, cheap and good, but not fast ,etc. A candle partner has sent hundreds of candles for professional testing at wick labs. They tested 464 after 24 hours. The results were a complete waste of time and money. Not a single one of the recommended wicks performed well enough to sell. 

 

Rushing through testing is like sticking a seed in dirt and wondering why there is no fruit the next day.

 

Patience will be rewarded. 

 

If you want more instant gratification, perhaps a paraffin like 4627 will be more rewarding. Once totally cool, usually 24 hours or so, it can be burned without a whole lot of change to the wick. 4630 is a bit more firm and takes a couple of days longer. 4786 is popular and I find a week is more reliable as a test.

 

 

[karinz40]

I was wanting soy because most people want the natural thing but is there a combo of some sort you are familiar with I could try

[TallTayl]

C3 is a nice wax once you learn it’s weirdness. I left it Mainly because I don’t like the smell of it. If heated even a little too long it smells like old fryolator oil. The odor persisted in my candles and was picked up by customers. I switched to c1 as a base - which has its own set of weirdness. People eschewing palm will reject c1, but it sure makes a great base for blending! 
 

I’m not so sure everyone wants the all natural like they “thought” they did in the recent past.  They all seem to want a good smelling candle that burns clean and safe. Those $100 Tom ford and John Malone candles made of paraffin and other waxes still sell quite well. 
 

make what YOU like to burn. You have to test them anyway, so it might as well be something you love. There’s a huge candle market with room for all waxes. When you love your product people pick up on the vibe and will love them too. 

[karinz40]

Your right.  I want to stay with the soy and learn it's quirks. I just need to learn patience which is something I  have never had much of.  This will be a good challenge.

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, karinz40 said:

Your right.  I want to stay with the soy and learn it's quirks. I just need to learn patience which is something I  have never had much of.  This will be a good challenge.

you will feel very accomplished as you figure it out. The next wax will seem like a cake walk.

[JuliaK]

On 5/3/2020 at 2:05 PM, TallTayl said:

C3 needs to be poured cool. You can get glass like tops easily by cooling the wax quickly in the pour pot In front of a fan while stirring gently periodically.  Pour when it begins to cloud. I used C3 for many many years in a shop that varied widely in temp and humidity. 
 

I use a wide spatula to stir.

 

if cooled too slowly it likes to grain. If stirred too vigorously C3 will gather bubbles.
 

 

TallTayl would you mind telling me what temp do you add fo with this method? I've tried it today and really surprised of the outcome

Edited September 11, 2020 by JuliaK

[TallTayl]

24 minutes ago, JuliaK said:

TallTayl would you mind telling me what temp do you add fo with this method? I've tried it today and really surprised of the outcome

I added FO as soon as I decanted the wax from the melter. 
 

how were you surprised?