IGI 4627

[YAMS]

Hi guys,

I have read different posts on using 4627.  Some of you use different temperatures for heating, mixing FOs and pouring for this wax.  What method do you get the best results with this wax?  I like to use max FO % possible.   How much do you heat it to? At what temperature do you add the FO? When do you add your dye? At what temperature do you pour?  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks all 

[Jcandleattic]

I don't use this wax, but rule of thumb would be to start out with what the manufacture recommends for this wax, which should be provided by your supplier. 

Most single pour waxes you would heat to about 190 ish, then add your dye at this temp (if it's a block) to help it dissolve, and the FO anywhere from 175-180 ish. Honestly this is just a guess though, from me reading other's posts, since I don't use this wax. 

 

I have read your other posts where you are having problems with HT, and I know this doesn't sound logical, but sometimes using too high of a % of FO could cause your candle to not throw. Me personally, I would start out with the lowest % you could to get a decent throw. Not only does this help with your bottom line if you want to ever start selling, but it is also just GMP. Too much and your FO could not mix with the wax or seep out. This is especially true with the heavier fragrances, and that could then become a hazardous candle. Too much and it could bind up too much with the wax, which could be causing the issues with no HT. It's hard to say. I personally never use more than 6% in my candles. For me, if a scent will not throw at that % then it is not a good enough scent for me, and I move on. I know others use higher % and that's fine, it's what works for them, and you may find a higher % works for you as well, but when having issues, it's always best to adjust. That's why we test, 

Good luck! 

 

[bfroberts]

I've personally wasted a lot of time and a lot of supplies doing the wrong things, and I've been where you are.  One hard lesson to learn is that more FO is not better.  If I were you, I would drop down to 1 oz per pound, use a known powerhouse performing FO, cure for several days, then see what you've got.  Figure out the wicking at 1 oz PP, and then if you must, test with incrementally higher FO load to see what happens.  I think you're gonna have problems start to finish if you try to use max FO load, especially out of the gate. 
I have not used your wax, but I have used a lot of 4630 and 6006.  Both, regardless what I've read, do benefit from a decent cure.   For 4627, I would cure for several days, even though they say you don't have to.  With the 4630 and the 6006, there IS a difference in the way the candle burns, and that can affect your throw and your wicking, and I can't imagine 4627 would differ all that much in this regard. 
I heat to 190ish, add dye, stir, add FO, stir.  My wax cools off ridiculously fast so I usually stir in my dye and FO while it's still on the heat source.  I pour about 180ish.

[YAMS]

4 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

I don't use this wax, but rule of thumb would be to start out with what the manufacture recommends for this wax, which should be provided by your supplier. 

Most single pour waxes you would heat to about 190 ish, then add your dye at this temp (if it's a block) to help it dissolve, and the FO anywhere from 175-180 ish. Honestly this is just a guess though, from me reading other's posts, since I don't use this wax. 

 

I have read your other posts where you are having problems with HT, and I know this doesn't sound logical, but sometimes using too high of a % of FO could cause your candle to not throw. Me personally, I would start out with the lowest % you could to get a decent throw. Not only does this help with your bottom line if you want to ever start selling, but it is also just GMP. Too much and your FO could not mix with the wax or seep out. This is especially true with the heavier fragrances, and that could then become a hazardous candle. Too much and it could bind up too much with the wax, which could be causing the issues with no HT. It's hard to say. I personally never use more than 6% in my candles. For me, if a scent will not throw at that % then it is not a good enough scent for me, and I move on. I know others use higher % and that's fine, it's what works for them, and you may find a higher % works for you as well, but when having issues, it's always best to adjust. That's why we test, 

Good luck! 

 

This is great information.  It does make sense I've read about too much FO but I had forgotten that.  I have been adding 9% to 11% with my Very Vanilla and Mcintosh Apple both from CS.  I used the same % with Oakmoss and Amber and Peppermint Eucalyptus and epic fail.  They don't smell at all or barely.  I will refer back to the instructions for 4627 again to make sure but the temperatures you mentioned are the ones I use.  Except that a couple of times it has spiked to 200 and I haven't removed it in time.  This information is great.  Impressed that you even took the type to read my other posts.  I love the support I've been getting here.   

[YAMS]

2 hours ago, bfroberts said:

I've personally wasted a lot of time and a lot of supplies doing the wrong things, and I've been where you are.  One hard lesson to learn is that more FO is not better.  If I were you, I would drop down to 1 oz per pound, use a known powerhouse performing FO, cure for several days, then see what you've got.  Figure out the wicking at 1 oz PP, and then if you must, test with incrementally higher FO load to see what happens.  I think you're gonna have problems start to finish if you try to use max FO load, especially out of the gate. 
I have not used your wax, but I have used a lot of 4630 and 6006.  Both, regardless what I've read, do benefit from a decent cure.   For 4627, I would cure for several days, even though they say you don't have to.  With the 4630 and the 6006, there IS a difference in the way the candle burns, and that can affect your throw and your wicking, and I can't imagine 4627 would differ all that much in this regard. 
I heat to 190ish, add dye, stir, add FO, stir.  My wax cools off ridiculously fast so I usually stir in my dye and FO while it's still on the heat source.  I pour about 180ish.

This comment bring me to two important questions that I have wanted to ask.  You say to start with superpower FOs.  I don't have a clue which FOs are superpower other than the two I mentioned above.  Is that somewhere here a list or a post that I can find which ones perform that great without having to spend so much money on testers?   Also, you may have made me realize that I am doing somethings different lately!!!!!!?    The last two pours i have been removing the wax from the heat source before adding the Dye and the FO.  Why???? Because I can never gage the exact amount of wax that I heat to fill the number of containers I need to fill.  If I add the Dye and the FO and I have too much in the heating container I basically have to dispose the wax with dye and FO or worse I may end up with too little for my containers.   I hope I am explaining correctly.   How do you work through this?  How do you weigh your wax when it's still solid to know you will have enough or not too much when it's melted????   This on my mind every time I do a pour but never posted the question.  Thanks for lighting my bulb my friend.  Sorry for so much writing.  Trying to explain it as well as I can.   Txs again.  ?

[Jcandleattic]

7 minutes ago, YAMS said:

Impressed that you even took the type to read my other posts.  I love the support I've been getting here.   

We have a great forum here. 

[Jcandleattic]

1 minute ago, YAMS said:

If I add the Dye and the FO and I have too much in the heating container I basically have to dispose the wax with dye and FO or worse I may end up with too little for my containers.   I hope I am explaining correctly.   How do you work through this?  How do you weigh your wax when it's still solid to know you will have enough or not too much when it's melted????   This on my mind every time I do a pour but never posted the question.  Thanks for lighting my bulb my friend.  Sorry for so much writing.  Trying to explain it as well as I can.   Txs again.  ?

Melted/liquid wax weighs the same as it does when it's solid - you should always weigh your wax. You can scoop it and put it on some wax paper to weigh it or in a jar or in your pour pot. 

[bfroberts]

8 minutes ago, YAMS said:

This comment bring me to two important questions that I have wanted to ask.  You say to start with superpower FOs.  I don't have a clue which FOs are superpower other than the two I mentioned above.  Is that somewhere here a list or a post that I can find which ones perform that great without having to spend so much money on testers?   Also, you may have made me realize that I am doing somethings different lately!!!!!!?    The last two pours i have been removing the wax from the heat source before adding the Dye and the FO.  Why???? Because I can never gage the exact amount of wax that I heat to fill the number of containers I need to fill.  If I add the Dye and the FO and I have too much in the heating container I basically have to dispose the wax with dye and FO or worse I may end up with too little for my containers.   I hope I am explaining correctly.   How do you work through this?  How do you weigh your wax when it's still solid to know you will have enough or not too much when it's melted????   This on my mind every time I do a pour but never posted the question.  Thanks for lighting my bulb my friend.  Sorry for so much writing.  Trying to explain it as well as I can.   Txs again.  ?

 

CS MacApple is a great FO that I rely on when testing something new. 

I only add FO on the heat source for pouring purposes.  There is no difference in the HT of the finished candle whether I add it on the heat or off.  Just helps keep my wax temps where I need them to be for pouring.

 

To figure out how much wax your jar holds weigh your jar empty then weigh it again full and the difference is the amount of wax + FO you need to fill that one jar.  Multiply by however many jars you've got and there ya go.

[YAMS]

30 minutes ago, Jcandleattic said:

Melted/liquid wax weighs the same as it does when it's solid - you should always weigh your wax. You can scoop it and put it on some wax paper to weigh it or in a jar or in your pour pot. 

Ohhhhhhhh.  That I didn't know.  I thought it weighed different You Just made  my life soooooo much easier.  Thank you 

[Jcandleattic]

Just now, YAMS said:

Ohhhhhhhh.  That I didn't know.  I thought it weighed different You Just made  my life soooooo much easier.  Thank you 

Yep. the volume will change but not the weight. It's kind of like the old saying, which ways more, 1lb of bricks, or 1lb of feathers? Well, they both weigh 1lb, so they weigh the same, but it takes a lot more feathers to weigh a pound than it does bricks. Took me a while to wrap my head around that as well. 

[debratant]

This link is EXCELLENT from Peaks.  I use this calculator all the time.

 

http://www.candletech.com/candle-making/tips-and-tricks/handy-calculators/calculate-wax-weight-container-candle/

 

If I have any wax left over in my pour pot....I pour it into little plastic dixie cups.  Just in case I need to do a repour the next day...I simply cut a slit in the cup

and rip it away from the wax and remelt that.  If I have more of that left...I make tea lights for myself instead of throwing it out.

 

I heat my 4627 to 190....add my color and uv....stir...take it off the heat and add my FO around 185 or so and as soon as it's stirred I pour.

I do not use the max load that this wax holds 12% when doing jars, because it affects the burn.  I would start at 6%.

 

What is the diameter of your jar, and what size wick are you using?  

 

 

[Moonstar]

1 hour ago, YAMS said:

This is great information.  It does make sense I've read about too much FO but I had forgotten that.  I have been adding 9% to 11% with my Very Vanilla and Mcintosh Apple both from CS.  I used the same % with Oakmoss and Amber and Peppermint Eucalyptus and epic fail.  They don't smell at all or barely.  I will refer back to the instructions for 4627 again to make sure but the temperatures you mentioned are the ones I use.  Except that a couple of times it has spiked to 200 and I haven't removed it in time.  This information is great.  Impressed that you even took the type to read my other posts.  I love the support I've been getting here.   

Me too - they are all a wonderfully generous group with so much knowledge  

[YAMS]

3 hours ago, bfroberts said:

 

CS MacApple is a great FO that I rely on when testing something new. 

I only add FO on the heat source for pouring purposes.  There is no difference in the HT of the finished candle whether I add it on the heat or off.  Just helps keep my wax temps where I need them to be for pouring.

 

To figure out how much wax your jar holds weigh your jar empty then weigh it again full and the difference is the amount of wax + FO you need to fill that one jar.  Multiply by however many jars you've got and there ya go.

BFRoberts I am sure what you mean is that it doesn't affect it because when you are the FObthebeax temperature is still optimal. I think my problem with that process  is that I believe that by the time I add the FO after transferring the wax to the mixing container the temperature has already dropped considerably.  It doesn't help that I use a regular thermometer that takes a while to reach the temperature reading.  Also that my house is always freezing.  Great idea for determining how much for as many jars as I want to make.  Thanks 

[YAMS]

3 hours ago, debratant said:

This link is EXCELLENT from Peaks.  I use this calculator all the time.

 

http://www.candletech.com/candle-making/tips-and-tricks/handy-calculators/calculate-wax-weight-container-candle/

 

If I have any wax left over in my pour pot....I pour it into little plastic dixie cups.  Just in case I need to do a repour the next day...I simply cut a slit in the cup

and rip it away from the wax and remelt that.  If I have more of that left...I make tea lights for myself instead of throwing it out.

 

I heat my 4627 to 190....add my color and uv....stir...take it off the heat and add my FO around 185 or so and as soon as it's stirred I pour.

I do not use the max load that this wax holds 12% when doing jars, because it affects the burn.  I would start at 6%.

 

What is the diameter of your jar, and what size wick are you using?  

 

 

Debratant, I've been adding 9 or 10% for the most part perhaps I should try lower next time.  I use two jars.  A status jar.  I believe is 3" and the Dollar Tree square jars that are 3 1/4" diameter but when you measure corner to corner not across its 4".  I am using 60-24-18 zinc.  

[bfroberts]

31 minutes ago, YAMS said:

BFRoberts I am sure what you mean is that it doesn't affect it because when you are the FObthebeax temperature is still optimal. I think my problem with that process  is that I believe that by the time I add the FO after transferring the wax to the mixing container the temperature has already dropped considerably.  It doesn't help that I use a regular thermometer that takes a while to reach the temperature reading.  Also that my house is always freezing.  Great idea for determining how much for as many jars as I want to make.  Thanks 

 

If your FO wasn't mixing in, you'd see that in your product.  Using Blue Spruce, lower your FO to 1 oz pp, pour a status jar and try a smaller wick....51z perhaps.  Let it cure a few days before you burn it, and I bet you'll be surprised.