Lori Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Hello, Does anyone know why this might be happening? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Most of the time it means the candle cooled too quickly, or it cooled faster around the outside edges faster than around the wick, and shrunk faster than around the wick. A little zap with the heat gun should fix it, and you shouldn't have any burn issues assuming the wick is the correct size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 Thank you so much for your feedback. I'll have to see if I can slow the cooling process down a bit. I'm about ready to test this wick, fingers crossed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Its not going to affect the candle so I wouldn't worry about it too much. The easiest solution is heat gun it on low heat. Also, poking relief holes around the wick can help as well, but I personally dont do that. Also, are you using some sort of wick centering device and pulling your wick tight throughout the cooling process? Not having your wick pulled tight the entire time it cools can cause that as well.. GL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 Hello, you might have just hit the nail on the head! I was wondering if maybe I was pulling it too tight. I'll ease up on them in the next batch. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I doubt you are pulling it "too tight". Honestly, if you pull it too tight, it pulls right out of he wick tab, lol. I would just make sure you are pulling it tight either before poor or right after you poor. If you do it later in the process once wax begins to cool a bit, you may cause some cracking and/or separation when pulling the wick tight again. One thing that has always annoyed me by some bigger name candle companies is when they say, "we continue to straighten and pull our wicks tight through out the cooling process". Why? Haha. Get it straight, pull it tight, and then it should be fine throughout. You'r only asking for trouble if you keep jacking with the wick throughout the cooling. Use a bowtie clip or something and just make it taught from the beginning. Then you should be fine. What type of wax is it by the way that you were using? And what kind of environment are you pooring and letting your candles setup in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 I've been using clothespins to hold the wick, they keep it pretty tight. I'm using soy and am pouring in a calm, relaxed environment... just kidding. I'm trying to keep the temperature over 70, but now that it's getting much warmer out, maybe I'll have better luck next pour. I can't imagine tightening the wick throughout the cooling process, seems like it would disturb the wax... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Lori said: I can't imagine tightening the wick throughout the cooling process, seems like it would disturb the wax... Exactly! Lol. Anyway, yah I'd get a space heather and try to keep closer to 72 or 73. I have better luck that way. Id also increase your pour temp a bit and see if that helps at all? Just a few degrees really. Also, when I was asking about environment, I really should have been much more specific, I was curious about temperature which you mentioned, but also about pouring table (what type of material are the candles sitting on -- wood, glass--plastic, etc), airflow, and so on. I do not use pure soy currently, but soy shrinks and contracts less than blends and less than parrafin do. So you should be able to get this resolved pretty easily. Not to mention, a heat gun to fix it would solve the problem as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 Ok, I'll try to heat it room up a bit. One thing I have always wondered is if it is ok that I have the candles sitting on my kitchen counter while they cool. Do you see that as a problem? I usually put them on a cookie sheet directly on a cutting board. Should I have airflow under them as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 So I have a really good tip for you...If possible... its good to use some material under your candles that doesn't draw out heat too quickly. For example, wood isn't good as it will suck our the heat faster than normal and that can cause shrinkage. Counters probably not near as much. Ideally...metal is great. What I have done since my pouring tables are a wood finish, is I have this padding that keeps heat in (sort of if you are going to bring a hot dish to a party and need to keep it hot during travel). I have lined my tables with that and it helps. The truth is having any solid surface under your candles is going to pull heat out faster than if there was no surface underneath. Well, since we can't pour and cure candles in mid-air you have to find the best alternative. To me... its either the material I use or metal shelving. Also (now this is to combat wetspots more than shrinkage around the wicks...but still helps) is I wrap my candles while cooling. I made some custom wraps that I can quickly slap around each candle (super fast and easy) and it keeps the heat in the candle better as well. It also keeps the cooling more uniform. I cant tell you how much it helps, but it does seem to help. Cookie sheets aren't bad as they are metal, but they are rarely completely level. I am pretty OCD and anal about my candles and anything that is even a little off about them drives me nuts. Not being completely level would kill me. If you have any that you can check with a level to be sure, than Id assume they would work fine. One other tip...lol, sorry.... is once they have settled enough that you can move them without wax moving around, I move mine as batch into a confined area. I have big Husky containers that I put them in sometimes, and I even use and old file cabinet and store them in the drawers to cool even more slowly. Or a cabinet, pantry, and so on. Really... all that isn't completely necessary but again, if I have time and doing bigger batches that are harder to watch and control each candle.. then I dont want to have to go back and "fix" the top of tons of candles. Sometimes, extra work in the beginning can save you a lot more work at the end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 Thank you for the great feedback!!! I bet that is what's causing the wick issue. I will take your suggestions and modify that part of the process. Since I've only been in testing mode, I haven't had to make a bunch at one time, so this will help me set up a system for larger batches as well. Thanks so much for the feedback. This forum has been such a huge help. I feel so alone in this process at times! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I been there as well... and candle making is all about the details and testing. Frustrating but fun. I wish I knew others around my location that made candles but I feel like I am the only one. So, forums help bridge that gap. Im in Kansas City, MO area and youd think in a city this size, I would have run into someone fairly close who makes candles, ha! -Wade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGlory Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 wt - I live about 30 miles from Aztec Candle & Soap supplies in Knoxville, and there's a candlemaker on every 5 miles here. That's the downside of having an international supplier that close. I set up at a farmer's market and every day I'm there I talk to 2 or 3 people who want to start making candles - and there are new candles sold at events and markets every week. Some of them are pretty scary, lol. It also drives our prices down which is unfortunate. Being the lone wolf isn't really a bad thing. Lori - your customers aren't going to care about that tiny crack around the wick - it's just how the wax is contracting. And it won't effect the burn at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 OG - I definitely see what you're saying. And really we have candle sellers all over here and lots of competition as well. What I was referring to was more of actually knowing experienced candle makers personally and chatting, sharing, etc. I always like working and talking with others in the same niche. Around here, everyone just does there thing and sells. No "candle maker" communities so to speak. ha! And Lori, I agree with OG, I might have given tons of OCD tips on how to prevent or improve the crack, but really that is me just being a perfectionist. Its really not a big deal. Spend your time and money and effort on finding the best wicks and recipes with testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Thanks for reeling in my OCD!! Very good point. I have been working so hard to get the candle to perform perfectly, that I end up watching every aspect of the process like a hawk. One question I do have. Once you find the correct wick/wax/fragrance combo, do you notice much difference in the burn when you modify the fragrance type? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Lori said: ...Once you find the correct wick/wax/fragrance combo, do you notice much difference in the burn when you modify the fragrance type? For me... a little, but I've never went up or down more than 1 size in wick. Now, to be honest Ive used mostly zinc core wicks and they have just so a nice good even consistent burn that does well for me almost always (other than mushrooming). I probably could have used the same size even on the ones I did size up or down and it wouldn't have been a big deal. With all that being said.. that has been MY experience. I read ALL THE TIME that you often need to change wick sizes or even types depending on FO. So... I'm sure there is tons of truth to that. Maybe I just been lucky with my FOs. Maybe Old Glory can chime in here and tell you their experiences with this. -Wade Oh, and FWIW, I have a much harder time deciding which kind of wick to use rather than what size. I love everything about the zincs other than the mushroom, which I am personally ok with it. But, I worry about how consumers view the metal core and if its a big deal. I really dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle guy Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I am a big fan of Zinc wicks. They seem to work in most of my combos. There are times when I feel I should wick up or try a hotter wick on stubborn fragrances. I have taught myself that if there is a fragrance that is not working with my zincs, I move on. Everyone has their own method but in my interest of saving on costs I make my combos work around my zincs mostly. I do have certain candles though that I have to use different wicks for but I try to stick with zincs. The mushrooming does not bother me. I will gladly take the mushrooming rather than not having scent throw, improper burn and safety issues from an erratic flame. Just my thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Candle guy said: I am a big fan of Zinc wicks. They seem to work in most of my combos. There are times when I feel I should wick up or try a hotter wick on stubborn fragrances. I have taught myself that if there is a fragrance that is not working with my zincs, I move on. Everyone has their own method but in my interest of saving on costs I make my combos work around my zincs mostly. I do have certain candles though that I have to use different wicks for but I try to stick with zincs. The mushrooming does not bother me. I will gladly take the mushrooming rather than not having scent throw, improper burn and safety issues from an erratic flame. Just my thoughts I 100% agree with all of this.... but do the mushrooms for you not ever get TOO big for you? Its not an issue for normal burning. But, I do notice for power burns (anything over 4 hours) the mushrooming can get a little out of hand it seems. Other than just generally not liking mushrooms for typical reasons, a big mushroom also makes the flame look pretty bad IMO. Short, fat flame around the mushroom doesn't look so great, lol. What are your experiences with zincs and mushrooms? Do yours get pretty large after a while too and do customers ever give you negative feedback about that? Or do customers of your ever have concern or distaste for a metal core? Maybe I am making too big a thing out of it, but it seems these days SOOO many buyers are all about natural and non metal wicks, that I worry about using zincs. What wax are you using mostly by the way? Specifically with zinc core wicks. I use mostly 6006 parasoy. I think it does tend to be a bit harder to wick than other waxes but its such a great wax for every other reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle guy Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Wthomas57, These are great questions! I power burn as well with Zincs and yes they do get big mushrooms. My thought process behind this is that a container is going to get hot during a power burn eventually. Most customers I have spoken to say that they only burn for a few hours at the most anyways. It does concern me a little also that it will get hotter with that huge flame after a few hours but that's why we have warning labels. My labels say to not burn more than 4 hours each burn. Now in a perfect world that would solve that dilemma but as you know people will forget all about safety. I always worry when I test about my containers getting too hot when the wick begins to get a big mushroom. Maybe other chandlers may have a better suggestion on that issue. Customers of mine have never once complained over the mushrooms. In fact, they compliment me on the lack of soot. Zincs seem to work well for me towards not sooting on my jars. Now I have had a little bit of soot on one side of my big tumbler jars from the big zinc mushroom. I use igi4627 wax and Clarus 3022 wax. I also have dabbled with 6006. I like 6006 but it does not have a cold throw hardly at all. It burns well and the hot throw is good. It will be hard for me to sell 6006 to customers if they cannot smell the cold throw b4 the burn. I have found that Clarus 3022 has both great cold throw and hot throw. It also looks just as nice if not better than 6006 in a container. I will use zincs and cdn wicks in that wax. It is a parasoy like 6006 except instead of a 30 soy 70 paraffin, it's 70 soy and 30 paraffin roughly. The 4627 I use for my smaller containers and it has a both amazing cold and hot throw. It's number 1 flaw to me is that it looks ugly at times from wetspots and bubbles in a container. I use zincs in that as well. HTH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 19 hours ago, Lori said: . One question I do have. Once you find the correct wick/wax/fragrance combo, do you notice much difference in the burn when you modify the fragrance type? Yes. The burns differ within different families (florals, citruses, spices, etc) and by fragrance house (AH, TSW, etc). IMO candles need to perform within an acceptable-to-me range. None will perform exactly the same. If using natural waxes the same FO will perform differently from batch to batch, but well within a given range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Perhaps I am used to 6006 so much, that I dont notice.. but I have no problems with cold throw from 6006. I do let them cure as long as possible.. always a minimum of 1 or 2 weeks and then they are strong as hell. Now, when you are saying cold throw... are you talking about smelling them across the room without burning? Or, are you talking about smelling the lids or the containers directly without burning? I haven't had anyone complain about the mushroom as much as I hear people wanting to avoid metal cored wicks in general. I dont get a ton of suit which is good, you probably get less though since yours is more soy than parrafin. Ill look into the Clarus 3022. I had never heard of it before you. Regarding the 4627. I CANNOT STAND THIS WAX. Perhaps I need to give it another shot. Yes.. the CT and HT is great. But... its so freaking messy. I spent 10 times longer just trying to get it out of the damn bag, weighed and then used. Cleanup a mess too. Any suggestions? It was such a pain, I got tired of dealing with it. Also, while I didn't do much wick testing.. I didn't have much luck. Everything was discoloring the wax really ugly after burning and had lots of trouble with tunneling. Cant remember what all I tested though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle guy Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 What I mean by cold throw is popping off the lid and smelling. Now with 4627 I use a paint scraper and slice out chunks. Yes I agree it is messy lol. I slice the bag open on all corners and pull the sides down. Makes it much easier. At first I had issues with tunneling around the wick but I think it may have had something to do with the cold weather. Jelly jars I usually have to repour no matter what. My mason jars come out perfectly. I just have to be sure not to fill them too high or it will cause issues. Try the zincs in that wax if you get a chance. I spent tons of money and time testing different wicks with that wax but settled happily on zincs. Lx wicks work well also but not as good imho. I will caution you though when using bigger containers with it. I use Clarus on my bigger containers because it burns better. I have a hell of a time getting 4627 to burn well in big containers. I just use it for the smaller ones. Towards discoloration I have never had that issue with it but I use dye in my candles also. You can order Clarus 3022 at Connie's Candles or call Brad and Melanie directly at Clarus. They will send you a free sample of Clarus and it's big! It's worth testing trust me. Also the Clarus has a cure time for best results but doesn't require one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Ok, I assumed by cold throw meant smelling after taking lid off (which is what I meant too). I was afraid you meant smelling across the room when not lit. That's a bit of unreasonable expectations, and I feared I was missing something. Now with that being cleared up, I have ZERO issues with cold throw on 6006. Again, it helps to let cure a handful of days of course, but cold throw and hot throw are both great for me. I'm afraid anymore more would be too overpowering and make a customer pass out, lol. I think the mason jars are thicker glass so thats probably why dont need to report. I personally never have to repour with any of my candles. Worst case I have to smooth the top a bit if I get a little dip, but I also have a self built well controlled pouring table setup that I am sure is the reason for that. Ill try Clarus out and see how it goes. I like that is more soy, but that could have its diasvantages as well, well see. And finally regarding discoloation, I use dyes too which is why I dont see it on al candles. Its mostly on lighter shade candles. Im not sure how much customers care about that, but I am nitpicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle guy Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I am also very picky lol. My fiancee always reminds me of that lol. Let me know want you think after trying the Clarus 3022. I am interested in knowing your results. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 will do, thanks for the tip. do you have a shop by chance or do you just sell from home direct to customers or wholesalers via website or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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