hot throw and container size

[Former Member]

What are the dimensions of the candle you are triple wicking?

I prefer the 22 oz libbey cylinder jars (http://www.jarstore.com/22-oz-Libbey-Cylinder-Jar-With-Flat-Glass-Lid_p_90.html). 4" tall & 3 3/4" in diameter.

[Former Member]

This is why experimenting and testing is so important. If you wick the jar correctly, (to be safe, not just to throw scent) there is no way a 12oz candle will burn longer than a 22oz jar. 

If you don't want to go through the testing for your own personal candles, then that's okay (I still wouldn't recommend it) but if you ever want to sell I would highly recommend it. Either that or get yourself a really good insurance policy. 

with three wicks it will. I can fit about 18 oz of wax in a 22 oz jar and about 9 oz of wax in a 12 oz jar. The single wicked, 9 oz candle has 9oz wax per wick to burn. the triple wicked, 18 oz candle has 6 oz wax per wick to burn. Candles burn fast when you add more wicks.

[Former Member]

here is an example:

 

a 14.5 oz triple wicked candle with a burn time of 25 - 45 hrs.

http://www.bathandbodyworks.com/product/index.jsp?productId=66932806&cp=4090260.4090355.68537536

 

the same candle in 6.3 oz with a burn time of 30 - 40 hrs.

http://www.bathandbodyworks.com/product/index.jsp?productId=68236616&cp=4090260.4090355.68537536

[TallTayl]

That's a lot of wick for that diameter jar. One thing i noticed about the BBW triple wick jars is they burn really, really hot. The MP on the store demos i've seen are over an inch deep. Not only does burn off scent prematurely, the temp of the glass makes it impossible to safely handle the candle to move it if needed.

After having over-wicked candles in glass shatter nearly setting my house afire, I'm of the conservative wicking camp for home safety. For instance, I double wick a cast iron container that is 4" wide. It throws to beat the band without creating a full MP until further down the candle. You can pick up the pot at any time during the burn without burning yourself.

[Guest OldGlory]

here is an example:

 

a 14.5 oz triple wicked candle with a burn time of 25 - 45 hrs.

http://www.bathandbodyworks.com/product/index.jsp?productId=66932806&cp=4090260.4090355.68537536

 

the same candle in 6.3 oz with a burn time of 30 - 40 hrs.

http://www.bathandbodyworks.com/product/index.jsp?productId=68236616&cp=4090260.4090355.68537536

Something to consider: just because big companies do something doesn't always mean it's a superior or even great product, OR a safe practice. For the amount of volume they do, they can afford the best lawyers when something bad happens.

[Former Member]

Something to consider: just because big companies do something doesn't always mean it's a superior or even great product, OR a safe practice. For the amount of volume they do, they can afford the best lawyers when something bad happens.

you are quite right again old glory! In fact quality issues was a big reason that I started making candles for myself. However I was trying more to illustrate that burn time is dependent on how many wicks you use, in addition to candle size, which Jcandleattic rightfully pointed out.

[Former Member]

That's a lot of wick for that diameter jar. One thing i noticed about the BBW triple wick jars is they burn really, really hot. The MP on the store demos i've seen are over an inch deep. Not only does burn off scent prematurely, the temp of the glass makes it impossible to safely handle the candle to move it if needed.

After having over-wicked candles in glass shatter nearly setting my house afire, I'm of the conservative wicking camp for home safety. For instance, I double wick a cast iron container that is 4" wide. It throws to beat the band without creating a full MP until further down the candle. You can pick up the pot at any time during the burn without burning yourself.

 

It can be if you use big wicks. I did some testing just for you this morning! I hope you all are proud of me . This candle that I'm about to show you is completely igi 4627, 12% FO honeysuckle and jasmine from candle science (12%?? I know some of you are shaking your heads at this point), with three CD 6 wicks... 

[Former Member]

after one hour... full melt pool (~ 1/2 in), flames don't seem bad to me, not too hot to hold.

[Former Member]

after two hours, melt pool still about 1/2 in, flames still look good, still not too hot to hold.

[TallTayl]

That is one super deep melt pool for such a short time. Can you show how it looks after 2 and 3 hours? Then again in the last half and third of the jar, especially the last couple inches. That is where all the real trouble starts.

[Former Member]

after three hours, melt pool around 3/4 in, flames look good to me, however it did hurt a little to hold the candle at this point.

[Former Member]

you can't really tell by the pictures but the dolor is actually a dark forest green (not exactly what I was going for but oh well).

[Former Member]

I believe BBW puts their wick s closer to the edge of the jar which might be why their containers get so hot when burned

[Former Member]

my problem with double wicking this container (and probably this wax) is that I get hangup on two sides of the jar which ends up drowning out the wicks when there is about 1" to an 1 1/2" of wax left.

[TallTayl]

what other wicks have you tried?

[ChrisR]

Way too deep a melt pool for an hour burn and too many and too large a wick.   Time to test other wicks, but, oops you said don't test.   

I'm out! 

 

Just realized you use the Libbey cylinder jars, which are the same I've been using for several years and I've wicked them with only (2) LX10's with no hang up whatsoever.

Edited August 13, 2015 by ChrisR

[Former Member]

 

Way too deep a melt pool for an hour burn and too many and too large a wick.   Time to test other wicks, but, oops you said don't test.   

I'm out! 

 

Just realized you use the Libbey cylinder jars, which are the same I've been using for several years and I've wicked them with only (2) LX10's with no hang up whatsoever.

 

with 4627? hmmm i could give it a try

[Former Member]

To clarify what I meant when I said I don't want to do much testing to get a good throw, I never meant to imply that simply don't test. I've done a fair amount of trial and error testing with my candles since I started and they have improved over time. However, I usually only buy 1 oz size bottles of scents unless I know I like it and will want to burn it often, then I might get a 4 oz bottle. Generally I will burn a scent once in a candle and then move onto another, because this is how I like to burn candles. So no, I don't want to carry out a bunch of tests perfecting a candle that I only want to burn once to begin with. I'm sure you guys have wonderful recipes and take pride in your testing but it's just not for me. Sorry if this ruffles anyones feathers.

[Jcandleattic]

with three wicks it will. I can fit about 18 oz of wax in a 22 oz jar and about 9 oz of wax in a 12 oz jar. The single wicked, 9 oz candle has 9oz wax per wick to burn. the triple wicked, 18 oz candle has 6 oz wax per wick to burn. Candles burn fast when you add more wicks.

Which is why I said if you wick it "correctly" Just because it burns more wax, is hotter and gives a better throw does not mean it is wicked correctly or is safe. I would rather have safe over any other scenario. I do not want to be responsible for a fire in my own home or anyone else's

[Former Member]

what makes it unsafe? In my opinion it is wicked correctly because I can get a melt pool to reaches the walls of the container.

[Trappeur]

That size jar I use 2 cd 5's and they burn beautiful.  That melt pool is way too deep and too many wicks. And that is what makes your candle unsafe.  I do quite a bit of triple wicking but my containers are 6 and 7" diameters also. Whether or not you just want to go with 1 fragrance, it sure would be a heck of a lot safer to settle for a smaller wick and less of them than to possibly have a glass shatter because of too much heat and/or your not able to pickup the container.  You shouldn't get a full melt pool on the 1'st or even the first couple of burns.   Each time you burn your candle and the wax starts going down further into the jar, your melt pool will reach the sides because of the heat in the glass as it burns down.   Thats why you need to test.

 

Trappeur

Edited August 14, 2015 by Trappeur

[Former Member]

hmmm two cd 5 wicks?? I put two cd 10 wicks in that same candle after every one was saying that my melt pool was too big. It's been burning for a little over two hours now and still has hang up on the sides. I'm pretty sure that if it does melt later on that these wicks will drown because they seem a  little weak rn (this always happens when I double wick this container). Are you using 4627? I just don't see how you could make this work with two cd 5 wicks.

[Trappeur]

Hi Hapathy,

 

Oh, I didn't realize you had a different wax......mine is 464.....well that does make a difference.  I thought you were using 464....sorry.

 

Well in any event, like others have said..if those wicks don't work, then the next thing to do is try another different style wick.  And they do look a little weak those flames, but still finish the test to the end unless of course they are definitely too small.

 

Another thought...hope I read it right, but didn't you say you added 12% oil?  That sure seems like a lot of oil.  Generally most use 6%.  Too much oil can definitely trigger problems with the wick clogging and not performing correctly.  And how much dye have you used?

 

Trappeur

[Former Member]

Hi Hapathy,

 

Oh, I didn't realize you had a different wax......mine is 464.....well that does make a difference.  I thought you were using 464....sorry.

 

Well in any event, like others have said..if those wicks don't work, then the next thing to do is try another different style wick.  And they do look a little weak those flames, but still finish the test to the end unless of course they are definitely too small.

 

Another thought...hope I read it right, but didn't you say you added 12% oil?  That sure seems like a lot of oil.  Generally most use 6%.  Too much oil can definitely trigger problems with the wick clogging and not performing correctly.  And how much dye have you used?

 

Trappeur

I use both 464 and 4627. This candle happens to be all 4627 (I think I had ran out of 464 when I made it), but normally I do a blend of these two waxes. I like the 4627 because I have yet to find a scent that doesn't throw amazing in it and because the manufacturer states that it can hold up to 10-12% fragrance load and I like a lot of fragrance, but this wax soots and burns pretty quickly. I like the 464 because it also can hold a lot of fragrance and also because I like that the soy helps it to burn a little cleaner and a little longer. I'm still testing which ratio I like best but normally do anywhere from 50/50 to 70/30 of 4627/464.

 

I have tried also making at 6% because I've read on here about the wicks being clogged by too much FO but it doesn't seem to make a difference in how my candles burn. In my opinion the 4627 is so viscous that it overpowers any clogging that the FO can do. Also I like the way 10-12% FO smells better.

 

I've found with the 4627 that you can only get so big of a melt pool from any one wick, regardless of size. The melt pool pretty much stops at about 2 1/2" in diameter and if you wick up to try to get a bigger pool all you get is sooting and mushrooming and tunneling, without any increase in the size of the melt pool. So when I wick this wax I try to do so based on which size is going to give a clean burn, minimizing sooting and mushrooming, and no wild flame. If I need bigger pool then I add another wick as long as I can reasonably do so. This is how I've found to be the best way to wick this wax. I've tried double wicking this container for over a year using different sizes and different wick types and only found success once I started triple wicking it.

 

That candle has 5 drops of liquid dye in 18 oz. 3 green, 1 blue and 1 purple. I don't really know what color I was going for and because I wasn't at my house when I made it and was kind of in a hurry to get it poured so It could harden before I drove home so I just sort of dropped some colors in and was ready to be surprised by the outcome. I was kind of of surprised that it turned out this dark green almost black color (good thing it at least smells amazing). lol last time I do that! Normally I drop a few drops of wax on a napkin to see what the color is when I add dye like I'm sure most people do.

[Former Member]

No one here invented the candle or wrote the book on what EXACTLY is "proper" or "correct".

 

thanks Amanda! You've touched on what I'm feeling here with the advice. I DO LOVE technical information and facts. My background is in chemistry and physics so sometimes I really need them to understand things. When I do post about the way I make my candles I try to explain why I am doing the things that I am doing. From my impression this has just been met with vague, subjective descriptions like my candle having "too many wicks" or my melt pool being "too deep" or my candle not being wicked "correctly" or that they are "unsafe", without much elaboration into the reasoning behind these critiques. This is not technical or factual advice either, it's completely qualitative. I have an open mind and I'm not resisting change but I need a better explanation for these things. I need that those technicalities that Chris says that I'm ignoring to understand.