hot throw and container size

[Former Member]

ive been making my own candles for personal use for several years now, however just discovered this forum within the past month. i love all the input from everyone and would like to add some of my own.

with regards to hot throw, i think one factor is sorely missing from the dialog... the size of your container! yes, it is true that certain waxes throw better than others and that FO% and wick type also play a role. but what I haven't seen mentioned so far is the size of the candle container. the size of your container is just as important!

think about how how you get a throw. obviously by heating up the wax. so then it should follow that the bigger your melt pool, the larger the throw! if you make scented candles and are concerned with hot throw, then you absolutely MUST take into account the container size. this is just as important as wax type, FO, and wick.

the amount of hot throw you get from your scented candles is dependent on the size of the melt pool (depth and surface area).

[Former Member]

sorry im typing on my phone and got cut off..

anyways, the bigger your container is, the more hot throw you will get. if you have a container with a bigger diameter (3.5 - 4 in) you will get an even better hot throw bc there will be more space for your scent to evaporate into the air.

for an example, i recently experimented with soy wax candles in some beautiful cobalt stained glass jars (9 oz) but was getting no hot throw. i was willing to accept that i just couldnt get the HT that i wanted from soy wax (gw 464), but i loved the jars so i filled them with some igi 4627 instead (great for scent throw) and even burning 4 of them at a time, i couldnt get a noticeable throw like i do from a 22 oz libbey cylinder jar. it was obvious to me at that point that it wasnt the wax that was causing my problem, but the container!

lesson learned is that if you want a better hot throw then you also need to take into account the container size of your candle. bigger containers that allow more surface area for your melt pool will give you a better throw. smaller container have left me dissapointed and so if scent is my goal then i will opt for a larger container with a larger diameter to acheive this.

[Jcandleattic]

You are right, it is very important. 

I think the main reason it's not mentioned a lot is because a lot of the people asking, already have specific jars they are already set on using. 

 

Anyway, great input and welcome to the board

[Guest OldGlory]

Exactly - so we are comparing one fragrance to another in an already established type of container usually.

[Former Member]

well thats kinds of my point... there are so many posts on here about people not being able to achieve the hot throw they desire and they are using tiny 9 oz jelly jars or 8 oz tins . I don't ever see anyone mention that they can get a better throw by "containering up." I understand that the jar is the starting point for many scented container candles, but some scents don't throw well in certain jars just as some scents don't throw well in certain waxes. the container you use is just as important of a variable as FO (brand and %), wax type, wick method, mixing temp, and additives. It's like the container absolutely CANNOT change! But it can very easily change and can help in many situations.

[Former Member]

it's just one more thing to consider in the pursuit of HT, but no one ever considers it.

[GoldieMN]

You bring up a very interesting point. I use pint, regular-mouth canning jars. I've purchased soy candles made by a local person as well as by the Black Crow Company which are also in this jar; HUGE sellers in this area. The hot throw is amazing from both companies so I know it can be achieved. Having said that, I certainly can try the wide-mouth pint jars to see if I can get a better throw. Thanks!

GoldieMN

[Guest OldGlory]

I know that the size of the container can be a factor, but there are other factors that lead us to our decisions on which containers to use.

If you ask some of the people here who've been making candles for 15-20 years you can learn all sorts of things!

Edited August 11, 2015 by OldGlory

[Guest OldGlory]

Don't know why my edit didn't get saved, but I wanted to add this:

There are a dozen or more factors that effect hot throw, and the size and/or configuration of the container is just one of those factors. I

 have been making candles in 8 oz tins for 14 years with awesome hot throw for lots of fragrances. It would be a mistake to assume that by changing containers you results will change with any fragrance.

[TallTayl]

It is much, much more than just container size.

I have a few scents that work brilliantly in my wax and wick combos. One in particular i recall is a soy tea light scented 3% of my lilac fragrance. It threw so strongly i had to extinguish and move it outside.

Like OG above, i make hundreds of soy tins a month that throw so well wicked conservatively i would never consider changing them. Ditto the scented beeswax pillars.

The trick is finding that sweet spot with your wax, convection of the container, wick and fragrance.

[Candybee]

Like OG stated, there's a reason some of us use the containers we use for candles. My customers want the small country jars like the 8oz mason or jelly jars. I sell them by the buttload compared to the larger 16oz candles I make. The customer will always choose the 8oz over the 16oz even thou the HT is better in the larger 16ozer. Sometimes its not always about HT but the cheaper candle.

[Jcandleattic]

Everyone pretty much elaborated, and expanded on my post. 

 

 

Quote from OG - 

It would be a mistake to assume that by changing containers your results will change with any fragrance.

Exactly - I've been making/selling candles for almost 17 years now, and the jars I use are pretty much the "signature" of my candle business, so changing containers would not make sense. If a scent doesn't throw for me, then there has to be another reason, other than just the size/type of container I am using. 

[Former Member]

well it sounds like you guys have some unique problems to consider that some of us don't. Lots of people make candles for themselves and don't plan on selling. It seems like the main reason to stick with small jars are bc customers want them. But i've never been a fan of the small jars because they don't give me as much throw. Maybe you guys could find something wrong with my recipe but when i use small jars they only scent up my bathroom. There is just no doubt in my mind that larger jars give better throw. Experimenting with a wax recipe is much more cumbersome than pouring in a larger container and i personally don't want to go through a bunch of testing to get a candle to throw.

[Shoegal]

Ahhh....If only it were that easy!

[Daisymay66]

well it sounds like you guys have some unique problems to consider that some of us don't. Lots of people make candles for themselves and don't plan on selling. It seems like the main reason to stick with small jars are bc customers want them. But i've never been a fan of the small jars because they don't give me as much throw. Maybe you guys could find something wrong with my recipe but when i use small jars they only scent up my bathroom. There is just no doubt in my mind that larger jars give better throw. Experimenting with a wax recipe is much more cumbersome than pouring in a larger container and i personally don't want to go through a bunch of testing to get a candle to throw.

I guess this is how I look at it. There is no choice for me on if I want to test or not. If I want my customers to have the best smelling candle I can make I HAVE to test. There is no other way to know that without testing. It definetly isn't my favorite part but it's so worth it when you have your customers tell you..oh my gosh, I just LOVE your candles! They are the only ones I buy!! It's all worth it then! :)

[TallTayl]

I guess this is how I look at it. There is no choice for me on if I want to test or not. If I want my customers to have the best smelling candle I can make I HAVE to test. There is no other way to know that without testing. It definetly isn't my favorite part but it's so worth it when you have your customers tell you..oh my gosh, I just LOVE your candles! They are the only ones I buy!! It's all worth it then! :)

Exactly, Daisymay! And they don't question prices because they just know the candles will be exactly what they want.

I dislike large candles, personally. It takes too long to burn through them-especially if it is only a marginally good scent. Strong does not always mean good. I have tossed out hundreds of strongly scented, but horribly headache inducing candles.

My customers buy the 8 oz tins 3,6,9+ at a time so they can be a part of the original scent experiences they can only get from me. No way i would trade that to sell one

But whatever works for you we all go through our chandling journeys at different paces and take different paths.

[Former Member]

i would love for a candle to be so strong that gives me a headache but i know some people don't like that. ironically i get longer burn times in something like a 12 oz status jar than i do in 22 oz cylinder jar bc i have to triple wick the larger containers. it burns up faster.

[Guest OldGlory]

I think that's the difference in a nutshell Hapathy. You make candles to please yourself, and most of us make candles to please a very broad customer base. That includes all levels of income, asthetics, scent preferences, etc. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't even make candles for myself when there are so many talented chandlers out there! Much easier to buy than make.

Edited August 12, 2015 by OldGlory

[GoldieMN]

Do tins get hotter than glass containers? Can they be picked up after a long burn?

GoldieMN

[GoldieMN]

I guess this is how I look at it. There is no choice for me on if I want to test or not. If I want my customers to have the best smelling candle I can make I HAVE to test. There is no other way to know that without testing. It definetly isn't my favorite part but it's so worth it when you have your customers tell you..oh my gosh, I just LOVE your candles! They are the only ones I buy!! It's all worth it then! :)

Exactly! I make the candles to sell retail and want customers to keep coming back for more. If there isn't a good throw, they won't be back.

GoldieMN

[Guest OldGlory]

Do tins get hotter than glass containers? Can they be picked up after a long burn?

GoldieMN

You definitely have to wick a tin properly, and that means that you allow a bit of hang up the first few burns. You have less then 2 inches deep to burn thru and with that relatively wide opening at the top you get a good ht. They can get pretty hot but I don't know how hot in relation to a glass jar.

[Former Member]

I think that's the difference in a nutshell Hapathy. You make candles to please yourself, and most of us make candles to please a very broad customer base. That includes all levels of income, asthetics, scent preferences, etc. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't even make candles for myself when there are so many talented chandlers out there! Much easier to buy than make.

you are right Old Glory! it's funny to realize how we have different approaches to making candles based on who ends up burning them. Making them for myself, i'm not too concerned with it having a perfect burn every time because I know that I can change it as I go if I don't like how it is burning. But your customers cannot do this so it is important that you work out the kinks for them before they buy it from you.

 

I started making my own candles because I was bored with the scents being offered and wanted to make my own. Plus sometimes I want scents out of season. It is very hard to find a honeysuckle candle in the fall or a christmas candle in the summer, for example. I will say that over the years I have learned more just by making them and seeing how they burned than by taking notes and testing variables. I have just gotten a feel for it and I suppose that is a form of testing in and of itself. I like making candles and don't think about buying them because I like my own and I like having control over the scents and colors and jars that I burn them in. Plus I like the way my candles look better, I think they smell better, they burn great, and they are just fun to make!

[Guest OldGlory]

Yes, learning how to improve with each candle made would be considered testing. Trust me when I say that making for oneself is a completely different task than making for the general public! Glad you found a hobby you enjoy.

[Jcandleattic]

 

i would love for a candle to be so strong that gives me a headache but i know some people don't like that. ironically i get longer burn times in something like a 12 oz status jar than i do in 22 oz cylinder jar bc i have to triple wick the larger containers. it burns up faster.

 

. Experimenting with a wax recipe is much more cumbersome than pouring in a larger container and i personally don't want to go through a bunch of testing to get a candle to throw.

 

This is why experimenting and testing is so important. If you wick the jar correctly, (to be safe, not just to throw scent) there is no way a 12oz candle will burn longer than a 22oz jar. 

If you don't want to go through the testing for your own personal candles, then that's okay (I still wouldn't recommend it) but if you ever want to sell I would highly recommend it. Either that or get yourself a really good insurance policy. 

[TallTayl]

What are the dimensions of the candle you are triple wicking?