Back to 415

[topofmurrayhill]

In the CB-XceL topic I mentioned possibly revisiting GW415, so here's my first pour in years. The top looks pretty good with just a faint ring of frost about 1/8" from the glass all around. The sides are flawless, apart from most of it not adhered to the glass.

 

 

[GoldieMN]

Very nice.  I only use 415 for containers as it is what I started with.  I'm definitely still a beginner.  With help from this forum, I've gone to Premier wicks for my pint canning jars--765 or 767.  I will be interested in following your experiences with 415. 

GoldieMN

[moonshine]

Beautiful!! I love that wax!

I can't remember if I ever tried color with 415 or not- let us know if it stays pretty or turns frosty

[topofmurrayhill]

Beautiful!! I love that wax!

I can't remember if I ever tried color with 415 or not- let us know if it stays pretty or turns frosty

 

Yes I should probably keep that one around and see what happens. There are no additives in it but I tried to stabilize it by other means. I would consider using this wax if I could get initial results like this and nothing too bad over time.

 

I guess I'll try one with USA if my stuff is still good. It's been stashed away for maybe too long. I see The Candlemaker's Store sells some form of it. Is there a supplier you would recommend for soy additive?

[moonshine]

That's the only one I know of to get USA- CMS

I need to get their UV inhibitor and start using it also- I do not color and my jars that get even the slightest sun yellow...it hasn't affected anything but to me it looks like poor quality when that happens! Lol customers say cool though so I haven't worried to much

[topofmurrayhill]

I need to get their UV inhibitor and start using it also- I do not color and my jars that get even the slightest sun yellow...it hasn't affected anything but to me it looks like poor quality when that happens! Lol customers say cool though so I haven't worried to much

 

Try the one from BCN. It's easier to use than the block and does more to stabilize wax color. Best I've found.

[moonshine]

Thanks! I need to order more FO there soon so that works out perfect

[Guest OldGlory]

Top, it's been almost a week - do you have any frost on the sides yet?

Also, has anyone tried 416 for tarts?

[topofmurrayhill]

Top, it's been almost a week - do you have any frost on the sides yet?

Also, has anyone tried 416 for tarts?

 

There's been no change at all.

[Candybee]

Nice candle. The top looks nice and smooth. I've never used any of the golden brands waxes. How does it throw? Or are you still curing it?

[topofmurrayhill]

Nice candle. The top looks nice and smooth. I've never used any of the golden brands waxes. How does it throw? Or are you still curing it?

 

I'm gonna keep this one around to see what happens to it. Common wisdom says it shouldn't look this good without additive, so I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. It had a short-poured sibling that I started burning in less than a week with good throw for only 3% fragrance. Does a room nicely and you can get a whiff of it down the stairs.

 

Possibly today I'll make a few with 6% fragrance. Another one without additive to see if I can get 415 to pour like this consistently on its own (and maybe stick to the glass just a little bit more), plus one with USA for comparison.

[moonshine]

Are you willing to share how you got it to look that good with color and without additive? I completely understand if not....I honestly haven't even tried again since starting with it a couple years a ago and after adding USA - I do not use color but would love to someday

I am just amazed because I tried what I thought was everything to get it to look good starting out - the throw was never an issue just appearance

[topofmurrayhill]

Are you willing to share how you got it to look that good with color and without additive? I completely understand if not....I honestly haven't even tried again since starting with it a couple years a ago and after adding USA - I do not use color but would love to someday

I am just amazed because I tried what I thought was everything to get it to look good starting out - the throw was never an issue just appearance

 

For the moment I'd like to make sure it's real. I'll keep you posted.

[topofmurrayhill]

Gotta catch up on some posts. Here's Mr. Pink again, looking the same as when he was made on 4/16.

 

Mr. Pink had a 415 sibling who I brought home and enjoyed trying out. It burned really well. Clean sides, no soot, perfect flame. Burned it all the way down and never had to trim the wick.

 

The original Mr. Pink is still alive and well.

[Becky]

Wow, Top! Talk about candle porn!!! lol

 

Looks great!

[topofmurrayhill]

Here is a 415 candle with USA added. I would welcome suggestions as to how much you like to use with this wax. For this test I was conservative and used 2%. There's no frost whatsoever on the sides or the top. There is a faint ring of cracking about 1/2" from the glass all around. I haven't thought about it in years, but I think I remember running into this sort of circular cracking when trying out C3.

 

One of the things necessary to avoid frost is to freeze the wax as quickly as possible. This isn't about USA but 415 in general. In the pours with and without additive, the candle was poured cool into room temperature glass. The temp in the workshop right now is about 67 degrees. Under these conditions, there hasn't been much adhesion to the glass. I can live with that. This particular candle has a slightly ragged edge where the wax and the glass meet, which actually bothers me more. It's from the wax freezing so quickly as it comes up the sides.

 

More about technique in the next post.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

So here's what I've been doing.

 

Place the bottom of the pouring pitcher into a water bath to drop the temperature rapidly while mixing with a stick blender. Keep blending and monitoring the temperature until the wax clouds up between 100-115 F, then pour into room temperature glass. To stabilize the wax against future environmental changes, temper the candles at a steady 80 degrees for 48 hours.

 

The part of this I don't consider practical as a real production method is rapid-cooling all the way down to pouring temperature. The problem is how quickly the wax starts to set up as soon as you stop blending. If you pour 2 candles in a row, you'll be pouring different wax and they won't come out the same. Not to mention, 2 candles is probably all you'll pour because the wax goes from slush to mush so quickly.

 

I'm working on a more practical approach. For part of this batch, I tried to use the water bath as just a time saver to get to 120 and then spoon mix down to pouring temperature. I got some lumpy uneven crystal growth that resulted in rough tops that you can see in this photo, though still no hint of frost. I think that continuing to mix with the stick blender to pouring temp after removing from the water bath might produce better results. Still working on it.

 

[moonshine]

What do you mean by temper the candles at a steady 80 degrees for 48 hours

I have not done the math to figure out how much USA I use but I think 2% is too much or not needed I should say

Thank you for sharing the information - that seems like a long process! Lol

I generally add my FO And stir a couple minutes and walk away until almost slush stir again and pour - but I do not color either - and if this technique your doing works to make frost free colored candles I just may have to at least try and see....

[Guest OldGlory]

Ok, I decided to try 415. My usual wax is 464 and I get great hot and cold throw, but it frosts badly, and the frost shows up within 72 hours.

Here are pics of 415 with an FO I use frequently, Blackberry Sage. I used the same amount of dye in this wax as I use in 464.

Both jars were poured out of the same pitcher. I waited 7 days to test burn. The candle that is lit was power burned once for 4 hours, and is now 1.5 hours into the second burn. Premier 780 wick.

There is no frost on the sides of these candles. I used no additive, just wax, dye, and fragrance at 6%. There is a ring of what might be called frost at the very top of the candle, but I did a very slight repour to use up the wax so that ring might be a result of the repour. Candles were poured at 100 degrees.

The only disappointment is the hot and cold throw. Even after a week of curing, 464 with Blackberry Sage far out shines 415 in the fragrance throw.

I am also testing dyed 416 in clamshells, and this wax does frost. The frost pattern is more dispersed, but it doesn't look better or worse than 464 in clamshells.

Edited May 3, 2015 by OldGlory

[moonshine]

Wow old glory.....isn't that amazing you are disappointed in the throw of 415 vs 464!

I totally thought every fragrance I ever used in 464 to be way more powerful in 415....but I also am using more like 9%_ 1.5 ounces oer pound and I did in 464 also- I can't get the desired throw with less except with MW oils I could do 1.25 but I tried a couple months back to do 6% again and couldn't smell a thing

[Guest OldGlory]

I have only tested the Blackberry Sage in 415. Maybe it is just that one fragrance, maybe it's the difference between 1 oz pp and 1.5 oz pp, or maybe it's a combination of both. At this point, since going up to 1.5 oz pp would significantly change my wholesale price I'll keep making 464 in tins for this client. I'm happy, the client is happy and the customer feedback is great.

What was surprising for me was the NO FROST issue. Each one of those jars had 2 drops of dye in it. I am extremely impressed with that aspect of 415 so far. That could change with a different dye and FO - we'll see.

Have you tried any Aztec FOs in 415 moonshine?

[topofmurrayhill]

Wow old glory.....isn't that amazing you are disappointed in the throw of 415 vs 464!

I totally thought every fragrance I ever used in 464 to be way more powerful in 415....but I also am using more like 9%_ 1.5 ounces oer pound and I did in 464 also- I can't get the desired throw with less except with MW oils I could do 1.25 but I tried a couple months back to do 6% again and couldn't smell a thing

 

I didn't want the FO to be a big factor in my initial pours, so I used 3% for Mr. Pink and then 6% for the second set. I was pleased by how much throw those candles had considering the amount of FO. It does seem that 9% will be required for a strong throw, but that's just soy. At least 415 works where some others won't throw most fragrances worth a damn regardless what you do.

 

To answer your question, the tempering is simply keeping them in an 80 degree environment for 2 days. It would have to be the room itself, or a smaller enclosure with its own thermostat. Might pose some problems for pouring in the summer, because I think it's simpler and cheaper to do with heat than air conditioning. Big manufacturers do this tempering step to stabilize vegetable shortening before sending it out into the cold cruel world, so I'm trying to see if it will help with soy candles.

 

I'm going to move the testers out of the workshop so they get exposed to more varied conditions and temperature changes.

[moonshine]

I have only tested the Blackberry Sage in 415. Maybe it is just that one fragrance, maybe it's the difference between 1 oz pp and 1.5 oz pp, or maybe it's a combination of both. At this point, since going up to 1.5 oz pp would significantly change my wholesale price I'll keep making 464 in tins for this client. I'm happy, the client is happy and the customer feedback is great.

What was surprising for me was the NO FROST issue. Each one of those jars had 2 drops of dye in it. I am extremely impressed with that aspect of 415 so far. That could change with a different dye and FO - we'll see.

Have you tried any Aztec FOs in 415 moonshine?

That is very surprising to me as well- with no additive

I would get a little frost but not colored it wasn't a big deal- my biggest issue was horribly ugly tops and wet spots like I never saw before until I added USA

I Have not ever tried Aztec oils- I Mainly use CS- FB- JS- elements- MC- FC-SC-WSP and a few BCN, AR/RE, NG and DS

[ThisLittleLight]

I'm using 415 with USA at about 1% and have low to no frosting. I am having issues with wet spots and cracking, but my workroom is cool, and the house is about 72. I've been pouring at around 120 degrees. I read somewhere that adding a vegetable oil like liquid coconut oil at 1 tablespoon pp of wax would help with the glass adhesion, but I'm wondering if I should just try the 464.

[topofmurrayhill]

Okay so I fixed the glass adhesion. I don't expect it to be perfect, but I didn't like how it was mostly separated. This is without additives. I still have the really good sides with the sprinkle of frost on top. Next I'll try the same thing with a little additive and see if I can clear up the top. Fragrance is now up to 9% and the throw is good. This one is a week old and I thought I'd take a pic before setting it on fire. The original no-additive tester hasn't changed in appearance.