PurpleHippie

I am quickly approaching the age were the first thing that comes to my mind tends to fly right out of my mouth. I am sometimes shocked that I actual said certain things right out loud! So I am very greatful that on that particular day I was able to bite my tongue. I was shocked at her comment and I actually wanted to laugh and ask her if she was serious. I quickly got the impression that she had been fooled by the other guys sales pitch. She wasn't really even listening to me, interupting before I had a chance to complete my sentence. I could see in her eyes that when I was talking she was only thinking about what she was going to say next. We all take such great pride in our products that I have to admit at first my feelings were just slightly hurt. However, I quickly realized exactly what Stella stated! I don't think this is the type of person that I want selling my products. I stressed how important it was to keep wicks trim and containers free of debris. I had left a wick trimmer with her and demo. how handy it is for reaching into the container. She never used it! Whatever kind of training program they use to get these people to become sales people for those candles must be very powerful. I find them to be bullies! I often wondered if it was just those individuals personality or if that was actual how they are trained to represent those candles. What bothers me the most is that they are making false statements and most of them have never actual made a candle. The market is so over saturated at this time that I think some people just become desperate and will resort to just about anything to make a sale. Thanks for the comments! I realize that I have given written information, label warning is clear and easy to understand, I verbaly provide as much information as possible. I can't do more than that. This is actual a blessing in disguise! If someone is determined to be a dumb butt then there isn't much else I can do!

I took over several sample container candles to a local store owner that is possibly intrested in selling candles. She loved my scents and expressed great interest. I left a burning tips flyer and pointed out to keep the wicks trimmed and out of drafts. I went back a few days later and she was testing one of the candles. She went on and on about how much she really liked the candle. I returned 2 weeks later and she had some very interesting:rolleyes2 comments. We suddenly have a large crop of sellers in my area from one of those pre-made candle companies. I don't want to get into the whole wax type issue here again so I'll avoid saying which company it is. These are the guys that go around at craft fairs bad mouthing other candle makers to get people over to their booth. They spread false information and they all seem to have the same sale pitch. Well, I could tell one of them must have spoke to the store owner because she sounded almost exactly like what these sales people state at the craft fairs. First, she insisted that any metal wick is indeed a lead wick! I have the information about zinc and lead on the flyer explaining the difference. I was very polite and explained it again but she seemed to already have her mind made up. Then she made some comments concerning wax types. I'll avoid that since I don't want to start another wax war here. Here is the kicker to all of this...she said that my candles were smoking! What? I never had that problem and was shocked. I asked where the candles burning thinking there might have been a draft or maybe they weren't trimming the wicks. I asked to light one so I could see the problem. After lighting and waiting about 15 min. I didn't see any smoke. I asked her when did the smoke occur. She said there is smoke when she "blows the candle out!" *faint* Well, duh! You think so? I calmly explained that dipping the wick back into the melted wax would take care of that if it was a major concern. That's when she said that this other sales person told her that "their candles NEVER produce smoke." I asked if she had test burned one of their candles and had blown out the flame. She hadn't recieved any of their candles yet. She only spoke with the sales person. I remained very calm and suggested that she blow out one of their wicks and see what happens. I would be interested in hearing her results. I told her thank you for considering my candles and left on a very pleasant note. I am wrong here? A lit wick produces flame, combustion right? I give a flyer, I demo in person the importance of allowing the candle to reach a full melt pool, I sell wick trimmers. My warning lables are very clear. What else is there to do?

I also think safe is better than sorry. Depending on where you sell insurance may or may not be required. The place I sell requires liability insurance. As for natural people may still have alergic reactions to natural products. Recently I had to explain to someone that has a child with nut alergies that using shea butter would probably not be wise. She hadn't realized that shea is produced from nuts. Not all information and products have been covered by physicans or sometimes it is just too much for everyone to retain . It wasn't one of my products but just think if she had used the product and it caused an alergic reation. There was no info. on the warning lable. That could have been very expensive for the maker of that product.

In my testing I have learned that flickering is almost impossible to avoid to some degree once the wax burns down to the middle portion of the container. That's due to the air flow in the container. I have never burned a candle that was 100% perfect. I recently received a very expensive candle as a gift. The person didn't know that I made candles. This candle had the most awesome cold throw, it burned very nice with a straight attractive flame, even meltpool, no mushrooming...but it had absolutly no hot throw. NONE! I didn't smell it and neither did anyone else. See, almost perfect -nice pretty burn but lacking in throw. I can make a candle that is perfect for my needs but there is always a trade off. Example, recently I tested a new FO at % between 6-8 and several different wicks and two different containers. Some wicks flickered begining with the first burn, one produce smoke even at 6% FO load, one burned unevenly...the one that produced the best scent throw and gave a nice attractive flame did have a bit of mushrooming and left a very small amount of wax on the side of the container. Wicking up burned too hot and too quick. I finally settled on the smaller size because the wax did melt from the sides as the candle burned down and the wick produced the best scent throw out of all wicks tested. Everyone is different, every maker has their own criteria for what they produce. I find that there is always one issue that keeps a candle from being perfect. Correct that issue and you might create a completly different problem. Personally I know my customers are looking for scent throw, secondly that there isn't a large amount of unmelted wax left over. Very few of them care about the mushrooming or any of the other issues that we tend to stress over. :smiley2: I won't use a wick that flickers from the very first burn. That's just a personal choice. My first objective is to to produce a safe candle.

Thanks again everyone for the help! I can use Crisco. I wanted to make one batch with and another without to see if the Crisco would cause any irritation. Haven't tried any babassu. I'll have to look into that and BC and WSP for the soduim lactate. So it is mainly the Palm Kernel that causes irritation?

So I see I am not the only one that has skin irritations with CO.:undecided Thanks for the help and the great suggestions. I haven't tried Palm Kernel Flakes in place of coconut. I'll have to experiment with that. Several years ago I tested a soap that made my skin itch like crazy. I was told that it had a high percentage of palm. I can't remember the exact amount that was in that soap so I've just tried to keep it low. Maybe without the CO it won't have the same ichy results.:smiley2: Thanks for the sesame oil tip! I'll compare my soap with the Crisco and without to see if if it irritates my skin. Is it mainly Palm oil or Palm Kernel that tend to be irritating in higher amounts? I love Castor Oil for the bubbles but I have had a few batches of soap recently that are very soft. So much so that I was thinking I should have just made soap balls with them. I thought maybe the humid weather we are having had something to do with it. I'll try one with a lower % of Castor Oil and see if that makes a difference. 2.5% seems very low. Does that small amount still produce enough bubbles? Is there any other place besides Lotion Crafters that have sodium lactate? They have a min. order requirement and I don't need anything else from them.

I have a gallon of Rice Bran oil that will expire in 3 months so I am trying to use it all up. My skin seems to be very sensitive to Coconut oil so I am trying different recipes using very little CO and increasing % to see what I can tolerate. Hard to beat CO for cleasing. I also find that high% of palm are irritating to my skin. The recipe is a 4lb batch. Coconut Oil 12% Palm Kernel 20% Rice Bran 50% Castor Oil 13% Mango Butter 5% Water % of oils -38 Superfat - 5 Water 689.46 grams(24.32 ounces) Lye 249.16 grams(8.79 ounces) Hardness 39 Cleansing 21 Conditioning 55 Bubbly 32 Should it be harder? I belive the #'s for Rice Bran are very close to Crisco and since I won't be able to get Rice Bran locally I'll be switching to Crisco when needed in the future. I appreciate your suggestions and opinons:smiley2:

My prayers are with you and your mother.

Thanks everyone!

Where did you get the silicone mats? Sounds like something worth trying.

I shared my candles with several friends that live a much colder climate and higher altitude than mine. They told me the wicks tunnel. I still had several in the same scent from the same batch. I burned 2 and they burned prefect. I wicked up and sent them a few to test. They reported that they worked fine. I was using a soy/paraffin blend. I test burn my candles where I think the customer is more likely to use them, indoors with the air conditioning or heat on so I can't imagine that their homes had that much of a temperature difference.

I've been testing the Ultra Core wicks and I have run into a problem. The container I am using is 2.5 in diameter. I am using paraffin wax. Normally I use a 44-32-18, 44-28-18 zinc and with some FO's I have to use a 51-32-18 zinc. I was told that the Ultra Core wick FT2.185 is comparable to the 44-32-18. That size tunnel, I burned twice 4 hours each. That size would not work at all. Moved on to the 2.28, then 2.40, 2.59 all of these left a large portion of wax on the sides of the containers even after several consecutive burns. Enough that I think a customer would not be pleased. The 2.67 has worked the best so far but there still is a bit of wax left over on the sides. Candle has burned for a total of 17 hours. The problem with this wick is that the flame is very high. I have to trim it frequently to keep it under control. Reminds me a lot of the ECO wicks. I really wanted to use the Ultra Core so I wouldn't have to keep explaining the metal in the zinc to those that insist it is the same as a lead wick. However, I really like the burn I get from the zinc better than these so far. I never had unmelted wax on the sides after the second or third burn with the zincs and the flame was not as a large as I am getting with the Ultra Core 2.67. Anyone else testing the Ultra Core?

I have always had flickering and bouncing flames when I use Mason containers. This usually occured when the flame was approaching the middle portion of the container. I determined that it was because of the air flow into the container once the wick reached this point. A few wicks started flickering right from the first burn. With those wicking down a size helped sometime. CD's always flickered for me no matter what size I used.

Thanks:) these were tumblers and I was planning to switch to another container anyway. I'll pay more to have a container with a glass lid but it's worth it.

I've been using Peacock dyes for my CP soap but I am almost out. I've heard a lot about the Dragon Lily dyes but aren't they only available from Soap Silly? It took much too long to get my previous orders from them so I don't think I will try them again. What do you guys use?

Thanks Eugenia. The visual is VERY helpful. A lot cheaper than getting one of those no liner needed molds.

Good job for first time or any time in my book! I am still swirl challenged:rolleyes2 !

straight with no creases in the corner? For the life of me I can not get freezer paper to remain perfectly straight all around the edges! I usually end up with smaller corner bars because I cut off the the wrinkle portion. Is there some type of trick to getting it perfectly straight? I really wanted one of those no liner needed loaf molds but man have they gone up in price since I last looked them up a few years ago. All of the ones I've located start at $50.00 with most being around $80.00. I could have sworn that someone was selling them on ebay a few years ago for around $30.00.

Yes, I always wash. Even if I am just going to use the containers for testing.

I ordered some plastic caps for some containers that glass lids aren't availble for. The plastic caps had a strong plastic odor. Kinda, of a new car scent. I let them air out for a few weeks and the scent weakened a bit. I could still smell it but not as strong. I placed them on containers and delivered my orders. Well, today I took out some of the containers that I had stored and the smell of the plastic lids is over powering the candle scent. That's it! If I can't get a glass or metal lid for a container I ain't buying it any more!

When I tested using the CO I had smooth tops and no wet spots at first. After about 3 weeks the candles I made with the CO had more wet spots than the ones without it. It does harden the wax a bit. The wet spots don't appear right away, at least they didn't for me. I had some photos with a side by side of the CO and without. I'd post them if I could find them.

Maybe the company you ordered from could give you the name and type of wick information that would help us to know what might be the problem. Just a suggestion here but my insurance agent told me to make sure I kept very accurate notes just incase there was ever a problem. One of the things they will certainly want to know is the specific type and size of wick you used in each container, the % of FO, time it took to achive a full melt pool, how many test you performed... Change any one of those and it can change the final product. You won't always have the same results using the same wick with every single FO. Some or heavy some or light in weight. You may need another size wick or an completely different wick all together. Your testing and that's what is important but it will take many more test to make sure you have a safe product. If there is ever a problem your liable.Even if you just gave the candle to someone without charging them for it. Keep up the good work and report back with your wick type. Someone will be here to help you.:smiley2:

Depending on the brand some 70/30's are the opposite, 70% soy and 30% paraffin.

I think it has been covered here before but I don't remember the exact post to give a link. Sometimes it is simply the type of container or how far down the flame has burned. Many times I start off with a perfectly smooth steady flame but once it reaches the mid portion of the container it starts to jump around. It's the air flow into the container. Some wicks seem to jump or flicker more than others. For me that happened a lot with CD wicks. LX wicks gave a steady flame but I didn't get a scent throw that I was pleased with in my wax/wick/FO combo. Sometimes, wicking down a size can help.

I purchased Ultra Core but there is a metal core. I'll take a photo and contact them.