BusyBee

Let me add one more thing.  With that shallow melt pool above, I only had to trim the wick every 3rd burn.

@TallTayl

You and I followed that same long path to finding single wick satisfaction, lol.  You branched off on the planar in magnificent fashion.  Congrats!

Thank you!  Please don't call that planar wick.  Lumetique owns Planar Wick patent, and I got little more modification to do so it is not "Planar".

cottonwoods-i wanted so badly to love them. But they just got too dangerous and later mostly discontinued, so I was not alone in the dislike apparently. 

I don't understand how they ever decide to put that monster on the market.

I wanted to love Aromalite and helix. I could get a perfect candle with one wick in a wax/jar/scent and never replicate it with the next scent.  I buy the entire set of every wick out there to give it the old college try 😉

Still they work little better than others in my opinion.

remember the HPSP frenzy? yup, have those too. 

Gone with the wind!  There is new one(but actually old) coming.  "Ultra Core"!

there is no one perfect wick series, so swapping out as needed solves the problems, but with a price tag. 

I don't think there ever will be one.  

I find minimal shrink of wax when the melt pool is not large, deep or wide. When I aim for the “U” shape, very small/shallow melt pool with hang I find I don’t need to trim with my selection of single wicks. 

I have managed to get this shallow melt pool through out the candle life.  But it still shrinks down 1mm more than what I need.  If I can create a wick that can burn off 1mm real fast after re-ignition, then  it's party time!

It makes me think about the wick charts…. Most have rather narrow measurements for melt pool… almost as if the major manufacturers DON’T WANT large deep melt pools.

I came up with conclusion that manufacturers and suppliers don't have clue on good candle making.  

36 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

@BusyBeeis that a 4th wide wick in the middle of that jar in addition to the triple wick 😳?

4th wick is the my two wicks put as one.  I was alternating burns with original 3 wicks vs my own until I was 100% that my wicking method was working better than the original.

Do you worry about the curl of some wicks at all? 

I was lucky that my preferred wick choice has been the ones with very minimal curl.  I have been using two ECOs as one in soy wax.  Now days, my favorite is Helix among what is available in US for vegetable waxes.  I like Aroma Lite also on certain wax.

The slightly wider flame base works well.

I found that my targeted market would work well with 10oz to 14oz candles which would have container diameter bigger than 3".  I could not find single wick method to wick for container wider than 3" unless I use wider flame like Cottonwood, Ribbon wick, & wooden wicks which none of them performed to satisfaction.  That is why I searched all over the world to locate flat & wide wicks.  I even tried oil lamp wicks, fabrics, papers, etc.  Putting two wicks together was temporary solution to have wider flame, and I am pretty much satisfied with Helix and paper wick that I found in Asia. 

*That paper wick I showed you before need some modification to make it close to perfection.  If I can have that wick burn off little bit faster after re-ignition, than I am good.  But I did not have a chance to travel to the factory in Asia to discuss modification due to pandemic.  I am hoping that I would be able to go there in near future.  Or if I can find a wax that does not shrink down after burn, then that would be better.  Could there be such wax in existence?  

Yes.  $73 for 7oz candle and they were selling lid separate for $25 which I did not buy.  It had weak CT, but complexity of scent was excellent.  Other than that, it does all the awful things that we do not want our candles to be doing.  I trimmed it right but it still did all those things.  I thought my friends were joking on me when they were telling me that my candles are better than diptyque and Jo Malone.  

Below is $80 Michael Aram 3 wick candle.  It burned good with beautiful flames.  But HT was so weak that I re-wicked it.  Now it produces much stronger HT.  Container is hotter with original 3 wicks, but it got much cooler with two wicks put together as one.  *That is my technique to single wick container bigger than 3.5".

I am sure that I am not the only candle maker who buys high end candles to test them.  Even though the #5 is my own input, other top 5 ranking of high end candle buyer was done by luxury magazine company.  

What I am trying to point out here that new candle makers should learn their targeted market.  Find out who the actual buyers are, why they buy them, find out about the competition & their candles, decide on their own target market, come up with candle & packaging that fits that target market, coming up marketing strategies, etc. even before they start developing candles.  That would make candle developing much easier and faster.  If someone is trying to develop a good candle, then it would take years.  But coming up with candle that could succeed in one certain targeted market would only take only 4 to 10 months unless they are aiming for high end.

I don't know.  But one thing that is true is that we are going to burn lots of candles.  Our own and competitors!

Let me bring back this old dead post.  So, who are the actual buyers of expensive high end candles?  Answer would be surprising!

#1 Realtors:  Realtors are the biggest buyers of high end candles.  They use them to staging their listings when the house is more than million dollar home.  If the realtors sell their listings, then the candles stay with the house as a gift.

#2 Corporates:  High end candles are used as corporate gift items to their high end clients & to given out top performing employees.  Sometimes, $100 candle is going to be too cheap.  Higher the price the better it sells in this market.  All high end candle companies have dedicated corporate sales team & web page section on their websites.

#3 Young professionals:  These are young people, who just graduated from college, starting their careers at big firms.  It is kind of rewarding themselves by purchasing nice cars & luxury items.

#4 Rich people:  They buy it as decorative item even if they don't use candle.  They usually place them on foyer, guest bathroom, living room & party room.  They want to show off that they have money to burn.

#5 Small candle makers:  We buy them to see how good they are and compare with our candles.  🤣

#6 Some regular people:  They buy this on special day to reward themselves.

I guess it's money well spend to know how good mine is compare to theirs! 👍

@Lawlaw410  You are welcome!

This might be irrelevant to candle testing, but I am using below to show how much difference all of us have in candle making design.

Is it possible to have a quick full melt pool from the beginning and keep the container temperature safe throughout the life of candle?

This would be considered impossible to all chandlers, and many think early hang up is the only way to go.  Many would choose safety over good appearance that full melt pool provides (To me, hang up looks so ugly.).  But is it really impossible?  If we can have taper wicks, then this problem can be solved.  If we can have a wick that becomes thinner(smaller) as it goes down the container, then we can achieve full melt pool candle from top to bottom.  Technically, taper wick design can be done with regular wicks, but no wick manufacturer was willing to mass produce them.  Waxing & tabbing would be nightmare for taper designed wicks.  So only way to do it was to using below design.

By using wick in this shape.  *Wooden wick would work, but I hate poor quality of wooden wicks.

This is the one in action.  *Container stayed cool, but I would need to adjust the wick to little bit narrower than one in picture for little bit more shallower melt pool depth.

Is it possible to create a candle does not produce any(zero) soot even in draft?

It can be done when we have beautiful flame that creates perfect combustion.  Everything would need to be in perfection to have perfect combustion.  It's hard, but it can be done.

Set your goal high with wild imagination and execute!  This way, you will come out with better candle even if you failed your goal. 😃

@Xersis

Little bit more experienced chandlers can give you some advice, but you are on your own when it comes to your own candle making method.  There is no right or wrong method on percentage of FOs, getting quick melt pool, curing time, etc.  How much soot is acceptable?  For me, it is zero soot.  But is that possible?  You are the one that need to decide what is acceptable or not by doing marketing research for you targeted market.  If you have that data, then you will know what is acceptable or not.  Production & testing method should be different for person to person due to difference of candle preference.

Diptyque choose to make this kind of candle.  Big mushroom & soot on their container (see top edge of 2nd picture)!  Many people say they are one of the best in the world.  It is not only that many customers would not trim their wick, they would not notice good candle even if you are able to create one.  They are brain washed with super marketing power, and they have zero candle burning knowledge.

What we are trying to achieve in candle making is to create the most beautiful flame.  When we do have beautiful candle flame, then it will take care of the all problems.  Not all candle flames are same, and you will know when you see a good flame and bad one.

*My definition of a beautiful flame would be BRIGHT NICE SIZE STEADY candle flame that produce WARM AIR CURRENTS.

I would end each wick test as soon as I notice one of the following.  This can eliminate a lot work bad wicks without wasting too much time.

Too hard of ignition

Too small or too tall flame

Flickering flame with soot

Flame dancing around (*Some slow dancing around near the bottom of container would be considered as normal.)

Container gets too hot

Hot air current:  Some wicks are producing really hot air currents which might be considered acceptable.  But the ones producing cooler air currents would be performing better than hot air current producing wicks.

Mushrooming

Leaning wick

Too much curling

When the flame is hitting the wall of container due to leaning or too much curling.

Deep melt pool:  *For me I stop whenever melt pool gets deeper than 3/8".  My preference would be less than 1/4".

*If certain wicks pass above categories, then I move on to more detailed testing as you & I have mentioned above in this post. 

Set your target on what you want to create first, and then execute!  Once again, good luck with your candle making venture!  

These are candle wicks list in alphabetical order.  There would be several hundreds more by not well know companies.  Have you found the miracle wick for your wax?

American Soy Organics

C-Series

Atkins & Pearce, Inc.

Aroma-Lite, Bleached Square, Citronella, Classic, Cotton Core, Cottonwood, Fiberglass, Helix, HTP, Paper Core, Performa, Ply, Square Braided, Tea Light, Zinc Core

Fil-Tec

Cotton Core, Even Curl, Rigid Curl, Ultra Core

Hayes & Finch

Cotton Cored, Flat Braided Webbing, Nylon Cored, Paper Cored, Tin Silver Cored, Wax Coated

Passamanaria Sao Vitor

HP-C, HP-CNFW, HP-CNRW, HP-CP, HP-N, HP-NF, HP-NS, HP-SP, HP-SW, HP-T, HP-VF, HP-VR, HP-Z

Wedo

CS(Stabilo), CDN(Stabilo KST), CSN, Eco, FW, HZL, LX, P, PGS, PK, RRD, TG, TL, V, VRL

Wick It

Premier 700's, Pure 500's, Superior 600's, Superior 800's

The Wooden Wick Company

Crackling wick, Whisper Wick, Crackling Booster Wick, Whisper Booster Wick, Crackling Dual Wick, Whisper Dual Wick, Tube Wick, Spiral Wick

Other notable mention;

Hemp Wick by EricX Light, 100% Paper Wick, Ribbon Wick, Wave Wooden Wick, Cross Wooden Wick

These are list of some available candle waxes by brand in alphabetical order.  There would be several hundreds more, and there are custom made candle waxes by order.  How do you pick your candle wax out of so many?  Have you picked out the best?

AAK [Golden Brand]

402, 415, 416, 444, 464, 494

All Seasons Wax [an Australian company]

A27, A05, S100, S16, B808, M12

Accu-Blend

Accu-Soy: #8-CB, #10-CB, #14-CB, #16-CB, #120, #135

Accu-Par:  #12-PB, #22-CB, #30-CB, 125, 130, 140, 145, 150, 160

Accu-Pure:  #43, #74, Coconut 83

Accu-Blend:  Microlene

Accu-Veggie:  #44

Palm Wax, Palm Blend Hybrid, Coco Bright

American Soy Organics

Midwest Soy, Millennium, Freedom Soy

Blended Waxes

BW-910, BW-911, BW -917, BW-918, BW-919, BW-921, BW-922, BW-923, BW-408, BW-429, BW-430, BW-431, BW-405, BW-433, BW-1290, BW-407, BW-1330, BW-422, BW-1400, BW-436

British Wax [United Kingdom]

RCX, RS 1, MB 1, BioCERE organic wax

CalWax [division of REMET Corp.]

Ceda Serica, Calsoy CB2, EC26, Ecowax CCN1, 127 Paraffin, 130 FRP, 140 FRP, 145, Caluxe Tart Wax, Beeswax, White Palm wax

SouthWest Wax [divisioin of REMET Corp.]

BW902A, BW 925 Mottling, SDW 2006-045, BW 422, BW 914, BW 407, BW 422

Cargill

C-1, C-3, C-6, Elite-200, Elite-300, Elite-3460, Coconut 1, Coconut 2, S-113

Clarus Specialty Products

CSP 123, CSP 133M, CSP 138, CSP 140M, CSP 152, CSP 165W, CSM Microblend 50, CSX Microblend 25, Optimus+, White Petrolatum

Stasis series:  CSB 3020, CSB 3022, CSB 3036, CSB 3047, CSB 3048, CSB 3062, CSB 3064, CSB 3072, CSB 3078, CSB 3080

Majestic Pillar series:  CSB 3028, CSB 3042, CSB 3070, CSB 3105, CSB Noble 3024, CSB Noble 3074

IGI

386A, 1230A, 1239A, 1250, 1260, 1260P, 1274, 1284, 1288A, 1297A, 1302, 1325, 1343, 1343G, 2202A, 2243, 2281A, R2322A, R2526, 2779, 4616, 2625, 4627A, 4630A, 4636, 4761, 4786, 4794, 4807, 4826, 5702, 5715A, 5788A, 5909A, 6006A, 6046, 6055, 6098, 6129A, 6129B, 6570, 8101A

Kerax [United Kingdom]

Kerax series:  407, 422,  456, 482, 519, 528, 1155, 1175, 1301, 1303, 1328, 1455, 2001, 2203, 2245, 2550, 2889, 3658, 4105, 4130, 4135, 4140, 4170, 4600, P9052, P9056, P9058, P9060

KeraSoy: 4120

Coconut

Ecosoy brand:  CB-Advanced, Pillar Blend, CB-135, Melt

EcoCoco brand:  Pillar, Container

Paralogics

PL200S, PL400, PL316, PL323, PL330, PL335, PL338, PL341, PL348, PL360

Sasol [international company located in 30 countries]

5203, 5603, 5803, 5213, 6403, 6301, M3B, M2F, M3X

Strahl & Pitsch

SP-470, SP-481, SP-483P, SP-486P, SP-487P, SP-488, SP-1792, SP-124, Massage candle Base, Bayberry wax, Beeswax, Candelilla wax, Palm wax, Microcrystalline, SP-173, SP-192, SP-227B, SP-434, SP-674, SP-1275, Japan Sumac

For wick testing here are many things that need to be observed during the test.

Easy of ignition

Tunneling

Guttering(Sink hole)

Cause of Flickering or Dancing Flame if any

Cause of Clubbing(Mushroom or Sharrock) if any

Cause of soot if any

Capillary action

Flame size, quality & brightness or color

Wick curvature(Curling)

Wick tipping or floating

Wick stability

Wick tab release

Conduction, Convection & Radiation:  These cannot be measured.  But these need to be observed with best assumption

After glow & smoke after blown out flame

Wax consumption rate

Time it reaches full melt pool 

For those who design for some early hang up, they would need to know observe what part of container it will catch up if it ever does.

Depth of melt pool

Melt pool temperature

Container temperature

Clean top appearance after burn

Discoloration of wax

Easy of re-ignition

Wax shrinkage

Container: Thermal shock endurance, Annealing & observation of any cracking or breaking

We all have different ideas of good candles.  But one thing is clear is that we are all trying to create a fire (a flame, a beautiful & safe one that is).  Understanding of a flame would be key to good candle making.  We don't have any measuring devices to check conduction, convection & radiation.  Just try your best to observe conduction, convection & radiation of a candle flame as much as possible.  What causes the wax to melt and form melt pool?  What causes the candle container to heat up?  When does a wax or oil act as main fuel and when does it act as additive?  How important is viscosity of wax for capillary action?  What is the optimal condition of melt pool to produce great HT?  Or is the wick that burns the wax and only releases the aroma chemical into the air?  Do customers ever trim their wick?  How long do they usually burn their candles?  There are so many questions without a clear answer.  I guess we just have to do our best to come up with our own answer by observe these things as best as possible.  

It would be wise to conduct testing in different duration of time.  Power burn, many series of short burns(like less than 30 minutes), & combination of different durations.

Try to test candle at same spot all the time with similar room temperature, humidity, room draft condition & direction, & distance from the floor.  Once you get all those in same environment, then move onto test at totally different environment also.  Cold vs Hot room, etc.

@Xersis

If you go to wick manufacturers' website and look at the wick chart, you are going to find some of the supposed to be bigger size wicks are actually smaller.  

@barbaranj Thank you for that information!

Here is old post about Ultra Core Wick by Fil-Tec in this forum.  I guess Candle and Supplies is trying to bring out old one as brand new product.

How deep is the depth of melt pool using Ultra Core?  I wanted to try this one, but I passed on it because I did not like the depth of melt pool that shows on their website.  And only supplier I was able to locate was Swan Candle which only carry small sizes.  May I ask where you got them?

Fil-Tec has been making Ultra Core wick for more than 10 years, and I saw one from China that was called Ultra Core.  Who makes this new Ultra-Core wick?

It seems like it.  She has been doing this for about 7 years, and she also owns Q Squared NYC.  https://shopqhome.com/  She does have money to invest.

*It looks like her candle containers are from China.

Jafe Decorating Inc. does painting jars & screen printing like those.  Their minimum order requirement is 504 pieces, and they have really good pricing.  They do waterslide decals too.

2 hours ago, KMB said:

Thank you

I liked the "idea" of 464 but I did not like the appearance. I used several techniques. Even when I had beautiful tops and thought I had it down test burns would reveal that chunky uneven weird top.

 

I have to keep trying with 6006. I have been trying to "get it" for a bit now. I came to this site in Hope's that I would get ideas and brainstorm. I have recieved support for the struggle and encouragement to throw in the 6006 towel. I cant I "must" figure it out

 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️🙋‍♀️✔

I made 464 work while many others had given up on that wax.  So I am sure that you are going to able to make 6006 work also if you keep working on it.  

Candle developing would be much easier if you learn about candle flame first.  Pay close attention to conduction & radiation of candle flame to control melt pool, and observe melt pool temperature if possible.  That would be key to achieve good HT out of a candle.  Then convection & air current caused by candle flame would be key for that HT to spread out in a room.  Make sure the air current is not too strong if you want scent to be spread out the room instead of it to go up to the ceiling and travel to others rooms.

Also, start thinking about blending little bit of other waxes to stock waxes.  For 464, it becomes a lot better wax if 4% of palm wax(IGI 2322) is added to it.  

11 hours ago, KMB said:

Isnt 6006 considered a parasoy?

Yes.  6006 is a parasoy that might have been one of the best wax available back in the days when all other soy waxes had poor quality.  Now it is one of the hardest wax to work with.  Even hardest to achieve good HT 464 would be much easier than 6006.  What others (including myself) are trying to tell you is that you are up for tougher challenge than 464.

6006 forms concave shape melt pool with thick hang up on the sides which sometimes get really deep(see below picture).  With this kind of melt pool, it is going to impossible to have constant HT through out the candle life.  I have tried about 50 different types of wick(*Candle suppliers sells only about 15 different types not counting wooden wicks.) with many different sizes, but none of them seems to be working well for 6006.  HTP appears to be working best among many wicks, but HTP creates too strong air current which causes scent to be escaped to other rooms rather than filling up the room where candle is burning.

Below picture is 464.  464 has great appearance when it is melted, mixed & poured at right temperature.  Clean mirror like top after burn like in the picture can be only achieved by using the right wick.  When you get that clean top after burn, then that is the wick that will produce great HT also.  

You might have noticed by now that candle making is not just matter of melt and pour & sticking a right wick.  There are a lot more things that goes into candle making.  Welcome to candle makers world and good luck with your journey!

I find that many of the name brand candles are over-wicked, and I see many of them are suggesting not to burn more than 2 hours at a time.  I did put "Please try not to burn more than 2 hours at a time!" on my warning label at the beginning because many other big companies had that.  🤣

Those high end candles are not as good as we think they are.  This one is over-wicked and forms big mushroom due to excessive fuel delivered to end of wick.

This would be true for many name brand candles but not ours.

Many name brand candles would reach full melt pool in about 45 to 75 minutes and start to form deep melt pool after 90 minutes during first third of the candles.(Oh yes!  Their containers get very hot.)  Many of them would form melt pool deeper than 1/2" after 2 hours during top third.  I am assuming that FO would evaporate much faster with this kind of deep melt pool, and that is why Trudon is suggesting that kind of burning instruction.  But that kind of burning instruction does not apply to many candles that this forum members would make where we want to keep the melt pool as shallow (preferably at 1/4" and under 3/8") as possible.

8 hours ago, lylithh said:

On 11/27/2020 at 12:48 PM, BusyBee said:

BussyBee according to what you said we are allowed to mix fragrances the moment that we melt the wax but not to store a mixed fragragrance that we made? And we need new SDS only if we create a mix of fragrance and we store it? otherwise if we create a mix the moment that we create candle or melts is fine? I am trying to understand your last paragraph!!

OSHA(US Dept of Labor) require us to have FOs' SDS in our workplace in case of emergency.  When we mix different FOs together, we will need to have SDS for that mixture in STORAGE.  But we don't need to have SDS if we mix them right before we put them into wax.  This is one of those regulation that no one will come out to check unless something goes wrong.

Most coconut oils are imported from Indonesia(#1) in US, and second would be Philippines.  But most hydrogenated coconut oil(wax) will be coming from China.  

If you want to make your own from scratch, then you might want to look at these two in US to play and test.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/golden-barrel-5-gallon-38-lb-coconut-oil/101COCONUTPL.html

https://bulknaturaloils.com/coconut-oil-rbd-92-degree.html

I was seriously thinking about testing above two, but I settled down with Coconut 83 by Accu-Blend.  *Accu-Blend get their ingredients from China.

Good luck on your search when you go over there!  And keep us updated on how things turned out over there.

Without knowing what kind of shop you are trying to open, only thing I can suggest is to keep the name short and simple.

Coconut oil is in short supply right now, and that problem is going last for a while.

It appears to me that all US coconut wax manufacturers are importing 100% coconut oil/wax from China, and they are just blending them with other waxes in order to make them work as a candle wax.  So, if you want 100% coconut wax, then you will have to get them from China.

What is your reason for trying to avoid soy or paraffin?  Your wick is going to be coated with high melt point paraffin unless you order your own special coated wick using other wax.

There should not be any single note FO out there.  All of them have several different notes.

Here are 4 things that others do to have their own line of scents.

1. Just rename the pre-blended FOs that we can buy off the shelf:  This works because there are only handful of people in this world that has ability to tell exact scents, and most people can't.

2. Mix pre-blended FOs together and sometimes with EOs

3. Work with perfumers at fragrance oil houses/blenders/manufacturers to create their own unique scents

4. Create one from scratch:  In order to do this, a person will need to have excellent knowledge in aroma compounds, essential oils, dilutants, carrier oils, & FO industry regulations.

You might want to check out these two companies to get them from UK to US.  

https://www.forward2me.com/pricing/

https://www.myus.com/how-myus-works/