Sponiebr

Oh HI! I'm lost and confused and I think I've forgotten something...

Oh! Hi there! I'm a little lost and I can't understand something... 

Something like... What the HELL is up with the flipp'n SUGAR and sodium lactate in the Fluid HP method?  

I found out about the yogurt last night, the honey seems to loosen up the soap for pouring and, it's just a hunch, but I'm thinking that the SL and the yogurt (because they're listed in EVERY stink'n formulation), are some things that aid in lowering the viscosity of the soap as well.  It doesn't seem to be actually written anywhere, so will anyone confirm that hunch for me?  Also, does anyone have some other methods or items that would improve flow and lowering viscosity of the soap for pouring and swirling? Somewhere in the back of my head I remember something about adding large quantities of alcohol to the hot soap, (which seems like a stink'n nightmare, maybe cyclo?)

Direction people! I need direction!

I also probably need a straight jacket...

Your input is always appreciated, (and 99% of the time actually put into practice).

Slainte!

Sponiebr the (oh damn! I'm LATE!!! )    

16 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Soap continues to shrink over time. The band will pull from the shrunken soap .The color of the soap in contact with the adhesive will change. Some residue may remain for a while. 

 

I have used that very tape to laminate paper labels for a long outdoor market. They kept the paper looking pristine for months. 

Thanks TT, that's exactly what I needed to know. I ended up with 3 bars of tests but my outbound soaps I wrapped a 3 layer deep ring of stark white crepe paper streamer and then laid on the label for Christmas  and last topped with a single layer of that EZ Start tape. They look pretty good. 

And thatks all for the wrapper suggestions. As much as I want to do the shrink wrappers, time and locality has me pretty much stuck with tape and or paper products taped together... I will improve over time, just like the soap. 

Come one! Come all! WITNESS THE BIRTH of a BAD IDEA!!!! 

Seriously, though I have some of this Duck Brand EZ Start Clear Packing Tape which is REALLY heavy duty stuff and I was wondering, have any of you just used Clear Packing tape to make a plastic soap band before? I mean like what should I expect to happen to the mastic that is in contact with the soap? I mean it's going to not be sticky anymore... Anything else? I was thinking of either a piece of wide ribbon under the tape and touching the soap or a the tape touching the soap and a ribbon and label on the tape and under the ribbon. 

Help! I know it's a bad idea, but I can't STOP myself!!! 

"'Cause I'm a train wreck. 

Waiting to happen. 

Waiting for someone to come pick me up off the tracks.

A wild fire born of frustration." 

Yo! Give it up for Sarah Mclachlan folks!!!!

Sponiebr the proving ground of Bad Ideas, Disastrous Concepts, and Confused Realities.    

4 hours ago, TallTayl said:

I can't wait to see them cooled and finished. The thought of plumeria throughout the house makes me want to hurl.

There's a LOT about making soap and the smells associated with it that keep me from making my soap where I sleep. Apparently I did a good job cleaning up my mess because the person that I relieve didn't punch me out, (I called ahead to make sure I could come into the building with no harm to my person), and when I walked through the door I was shocked, (SHOCKED I tells ya), that it didn't smell like ploo! 

Anywho, here's the mess all rough trimmed up and out of their molds. A Disher called it Dino poo and I think that is just about as apropos as it gets.  And so without any further ado I present to you DINO POO!!!!!! (Singular faint squeeky "yay!")
 

Side note: Those crappy silicone $3.97 dino molds from Walmart, kick arse! They're nice and heavy, release well and have nice cavity sizes. The brand is "Way to Celebrate" Dinosaur Silicone Pan. 

ETA: The black tints are charcoal swirls... I was TRYING to save it at some level. 

3 hours ago, Moonstar said:

You have a way of reeling me in just to read what you've posted lol ! You mentioned you live with your dad ??? OOHH the stories your dad must have LMAO !!!!! 

I'm like a train wreck! You don't WANT to look, but you you HAVE to look...  

Yeah, there's NO way I did this at my dad's. I usually make soap in my spare time at, erm, "a facility that I have access to 40 hours per week..."   

I think... (gasp) This may be the end (cough) of ( gasp) me... 

I... I spilled... half... a ( gasp) ounce... (wheeze) of... (GACK!!!) plooooo.... (gasp) plumeria... 

Yep. I spilled 1/2 of 1 ounce of plumeria FO on the table top... Somebody PLEASE SHOOT ME!!! I'm in plumeria HELL!!!! Oh gawd it's BAD!!!!! It's in my NOSE, it's in my BRAIN, I can THINK the smell of plumeria... It's EVERYWHERE... (shudders) 

So, when the cops find my body on the floor, somebody's gotta tell'm that the photo below is actually "supposed" to be soap... M'kay? Promise? Come on! Pinky swear on it!!! 

I swear it's not what it looks like!!! 

Oh... Didn't I learn some things tonight! Here are some of the highlights: 

1. DO NOT SPILL PLUMERIA FO EVER!!!! (note to self: Self: When you open a bottle of FO and have gotten what you need out of it you DO NOT SET the bottle DOWN again until AFTER the cap is back ON the bottle and SCREWED DOWN TIGHT!!!! 

2. High temp fluid HP soap has GREAT potential, IF I can figure out how to do it without killing, or maiming myself and/or destroying the building I'm working in. GREAT POTENTIAL. YUGE!!! THE BIGGEST!

3. Honey is evil. Stop using it in soap. (Seriously Mr. Executor of Bad Ideas...  ENOUGH with the honey! It turns everything orange and then brown. STAHPPIT!!!! ) 

4. Actively beating back a batch of volcanoing soap is one EXHILARATING and EXHAUSTING experience! I might also add that it is an experience that one must be FULLY committed to, and FULLY aware of what the consequences are. When in doubt on this one: RUN!!!! (I should have.)

5. That lye stays active in the HP soap A LOT LONGER than I thought it would! (See items 3 and 4 in order)

6. The fragrance of a soap should in some way match it's color and or texture... That soap above in a Chocolate Brownie, a Brown Sugar Fig, or Apple Butter would be WELL received. In plumeria... Not so much! The soap was SUPPOSED to be light cream colored with wisps of bronzish green/teal mica highlights and tint, but it's 5H!7 brown (see above bullets No.'s 3-5) 

Yeah so... One of those insightful 28 hour days for me... Interesting on the whole, if slightly traumatizing in many aspects...  Still, I really like this super fast and fluid HP idea, and now that I see that it is possible  to do, I should like to dabble a bit more in this area. 

Anyway, if the cops ask; That's the story, or at least ALL of the story that I'm willing to confess to. Have my remains thrown into Kilauea, Pele outta get a kick out of my plumeria embalmed body. 

Slainte! 

Sponiebr: The Executor of BAD Idea's IS BACK and there is HELL to PAY!!!!

9 hours ago, Scented said:

They do ... it's called throw away the key! 

 

How many other bars in the batch and how many others are showing signs of this? OR was this the only one against the turmeric?

Oh! They TRIED that... I picked the lock and got out 'cause I'm just like honey badger. 

Total number of that batch is 3.25. There is another bar (turmeric bars) that was next to these fig bars that has a similar blotch, but that's it.  

 

8 hours ago, Scented said:

As for DOS and cutting away the specks ... The pro is you cut off the ugly and then hope that the rest of the bar doesn't break out, but since it did once, wouldn't it do it again, you wonder ... so you keep the bar for yourself, but ... it may not sprout its orange-like acne again ... though you wouldn't know ... and the girl you are trying to impress might come back to tell you it changed to a lovely burnt orange and it doesn't smell quite the way it did the first time. The pro still is that you can use it or you can stare it waiting for it to do something and waste a bunch of time. 

The cons could be that it is DOS and that this is just the first break out and under the surface might be more just waiting to bloom. If you cut it away, it could be that the discoloring already runs much deeper and so you're left with an awkward size bar of soap saying you actually eliminated everything. You could also cut it and think it's gone and set it next to other soaps that need that procrastination shave and shape and polish and find that it's like the measles and it spreads. There's an example from someone out there who decided to rebatch it, but it didn't help so they shred it into a pail to use as laundry soap and it rather made things an unpleasant smell when used etc. 

I still think it's color transfer and if that's the case and yellow doesn't belong in your cream and brown soap, well rename it to include the yellow as if it was supposed to be there all along. 

Either way, stare at it longer ...

Screw it. I'm gonna wrap'm and send'm. I'll keep the one that is in the picture for a long term test. I'll just send it to her with the admonishment that "If it get's acne and starts to smell bad just kick it to the curb and whatever you do don't feed it or do it's laundry. You've already got 2 teenage boys you don't need any more acne covered sources of stink'n 'tude."

That ought to go over well... It's a PLAN! 

(stares at the soap) Well soap I think it's time for you to get put away...  (GREAT! Now they're whining)  "UUUUAGHHHHHHHHH!!! JUST 15 MINUTES MORE!!!! PUUUUUUULLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEZEEE!!!???! IT'S NO FAIR!!!! THE OTHER SOAPS GET TO STAY OUT ALL THE TIME!!! I HATE YOU!!! I'M NEVER GONNA TALK TO YOU AGAIN!!!! UUUUUGHH!!!"   

 

4 hours ago, Scented said:

So it wasn't up against anything yellow? See to me it looks like a yellow transfer and a huge one at that so the DOS, well even what I had didn't come in a big patch. It came like the chicken pox or the measles. Or I'm tired and it's something else. 

I think we've all cut off the orange spots before. For me though all the cutting just produced more that showed up. I think it was just waiting for me to do something so it could have its own breakout party. It doesn't mean that's your case. Just watch it, but don't sit and stare at it, because you might start seeing stuff that isn't there. 

Oh yeah. It was all up against turmeric soap, and pine tar soap, so there was definitely yellow in that I've-got-to-clean-these-up-and-wrap-them-but-dammit-I-don't-wanna-it's-a-pain-in-the-ass box. 

Don't stare at them!? Oh... geeze! I wish I'd known sooner, it's all I've been doing for the last 2 days. (It does kind of explain my paranoid hallucinations of soap laughing at me though... So maybe I'm not nutz? *giggles from the corner of the room* NOPE!!! They're definitely talking about me and laughing at me!!! FARK'N SOAP!!!!  

Oh Hi there! I didn't see you reading this... o.O 


(And no, they DON'T make a medication for my condition...) 

 

2 hours ago, Trappeur said:

Why can't you just slice it off?

 

Trappeur

Excellent question! I don't know if this is a systemic thing or if it's a moldy cheese thing... 

7 hours ago, Scented said:

First, that magic hat is a gorgeous and warm stocking cap I stole from someone in a white elephant swap  

OH! (whew) I feel less paranoid now. I've just had bad experiences with magic people.  For example, my soon to be ex-wife mentioned magic one time and it turns out she is a succubus. I mean how was I supposed to know this? (she didn't even have a hat...)  

Yeah I know SF reduces it but not enough IMO.  

So I'll try to explain it. 

After you've loaded the ingredients and amounts in and set you portion size so to speak and water, then print/save it so you have it. Then go through the list of oils and start subbing in another oil for the coconut, calculate it and if the lye amount goes down by than 1 or 5 grams etc. though it should have a much bigger change than that. So let's say you start with chicken fat as the experimental numbers to use. Plug it in for coconut and recalculate. Make a batch and see it affects it and keep experimenting with subbing in other oils. As you make batches to see how the changes affect your batches, keep experimenting with the substitute numbers only. So like you aren't swapping in chicken fat oil for coconut in the actual batch. You are subbing in chicken fat's numbers and using the same amount of coconut. There is a point when it's too low, but I don't remember what that was, just that I found what proportion works for me. That's basically what I have done. 

I couldn't make the SF work enough for me to get the irritation/dryness out of the end feel till I started doing this once I found the right amount of deduction for my recipe. 

 

 So... You've just basically increased your lye discount for CO using other natural SAP values? Yeah, OK... I can see the value in that. Sometimes those tiny tweaks produce pretty substantial results. Were you ever able to reverse engineer the exact SF% for optimal results? 

5 hours ago, Moonstar said:

Ive never in my life seen brown tomato sauce  lol ! Not sure if thats what you had - maybe it was bad ? I come from a family that makes their own sauce and its 

always red. Apple sauce wouldn't be red Sponier because its made from the apple not from its red peel lol ! So did you make this dish in the picture ? 

BTW thanks for the tip on beans LMAO !!!!! 

Oh, you haven't lived until you've had tomato ketchup that was gray brown. 

No, I didn't make the picture. It's a picture of Fasolakia giaxni. 

And another tip: "Always cook your veg to mush or else your butt will never hush."  

(Yeah... I'm jam packed with COPIOUS amounts of "stuff" like that  ) 

3 hours ago, TallTayl said:

It could be transfer if it were against something. I have seen DOS appear in one spot, then slowly appear on other parts of the bar.

 

Could also be fragrance not fully mixed in. I have some where you can see the ribbons of fragrance rush the bar. And some where the fragrance had starting crystallizing which discolored the soap.

 

how deep is it now?

Odd you should mention this. Dad said that the spot smelled more strongly of the fragrance than the rest of the bar. The depth of the spots are only on the outside of the bars and are about (I'm guesstimating at this point), not more than 3/16th's of an inch deep. It'd be just one swipe across the mandolin to get rid of it. I don't know how fast DOS will spread, but I found another nub of the same soap on my desk that I used to test for color bleeding in the bathroom (I used a bit too much bronze mica in this soap) and it seems to have a dot as well. They were all cured in a plastic baker's tray next to some vanillin heavy soap and next to pine tar soap. 

48 minutes ago, Shari said:

Hey, we've all had it happen at least once.  I had it happen on 100% Coconut Oil with 0 SF.  I was making stain sticks and they all ended up with DOS.  Strange, as it's never happened again.   If it smell kind of like rancid oils, I would lean more towards it being DOS.   You can still use them, but I'd use them fast.

Does trimming the crap spot off work?  I mean isn't DOS kind of a systemic thing? It's not more than 1/4" deep and probably closer to an 1/8 or 3/16 th's tops.

I can honestly put a bet that if this is DOS then it picked it up during the hurricane while the power was out and the humidity was 100% for a week.  

ETA: I just lined them up and it's a perfect line down the side of all three, this really might just be a transfer stain. That ONE bar has that oh so slight translucent start to it though... 

4 minutes ago, Shari said:

It kind of does look like DOS to me.  However, I would set it aside and watch it.  Does it have an off smell of any kind?  It could be transfer from another soap but I would still keep an eye on it.  You may be okay, especially if none of the others look off.

That particular one smells a little like old veg oil in that one spot, but it could also be the smell from the other soap, I honestly can't tell. I've got the possible contaminated bars out on my desk right now and I'll tarp them with a napkin, toilet paper, or I dunno---- something that will hide my shame, frustration, and disappointment...  

Um... Do you think this is what I think this is? I'm really hoping that this is some sort of transfer from some of the other bars that were packed in tightly with this Mediterranean fig and brown sugar fig... The bars packed in next to it were that turmeric colored Jamaica Me Crazy and they were touching this Med fig batch... 3 bars have a couple of lighter bits and it's on the same edge as this bar. All the other batches have been just for kicks, this is the ONE batch that I made especially for the good look'n blonde gal I went to college with for her Christmas gift... THIS IS THE ONE FRICK'N BATCH. 

(Seriously Murphy, KNOCK IT OFF!) 

I didn't see anything odd with the other 4 bars, they look just fine, and the Jamaica Me Crazy batch looks just fine. 

Sponiebr: Finalist in the World Championship of BOHICA. 

On 11/23/2016 at 9:56 AM, TallTayl said:

cooked vegetables were not all soggy and brown  

Wait... Whut? What other color is there for cooked veg? I mean even the "gray" ones are mostly brown. Even tomato and apple sauce is brown, (which I don't understand because they're both red or green, so they should make red or green sauce right?)  Show me these pictures of not brown cooked soggy vegetables because the only ones I know that aren't brown are Corn and Carrots and Peas and all three of them are mushy when cooked.

  
Looks a little raw to me, but one or 2 more days should get'm cooked right. Remember: "Beans cooked until gray, keep farts far away." 

8 hours ago, TallTayl said:

How long did you cure them for Sponiebr? 

Oh I don't remember but it was about 6 weeks minimum and now it's been around 6 months and they're still very drying to me. Other people love them. One person was not impressed with the lather. That particular formulation is a thing of my past. NO MORE! I'm moving forward into the bright, bold, (OW! Bright... hot... painful... ugh..), future. 

3 hours ago, Scented said:

I use 25% in my bars, but the process of what I do to make it less harsh might be a bit complicated to explain, but not complicated to make. Basically I use less lye. What calculator are you using? 

Usually I use soapcalc.net. So in CP soap super fating ends up being a lye discount. HP you can actually add fat to the soap at the end of the cook to gain a specific emollient, but in CP the lye decides what it will and won't turn into soap. So, what ARE you doing to make it less harsh, lye discount + high water and a long cure? PH buffer? Iz veeery interestinks. How ist ju doingz zeezs?  Ve vant to know...

5 hours ago, Scented said:

No black magic ... I wear a lime helmet ... see to the left ... it is not magical 

 
Hmmmmm.... "Bohemian keeper of the magic hat."   

I dunno... Something seems... Off... Limes and coconuts and mixing... I dunno...

8 hours ago, Scented said:

Well look at that typo! It was 100% CP for method not CO. 

It was way back in an experimental stages of trying to make a soap heavy in CO that wasn't harsh or irritating. Somewhere the recipe is still around, because both batches made using it produced DOS, which goes fine with a yellow, orange and pink pearberry scent, but doesn't look good with a blue and pink swirled SJP scent. 

AAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!! Magic!!!! It's BLACK MAGIC!!!!! Shari turned into Scented!!! RUN!!!!! 

Off the top of your head, do you remember how much CO you were able to get away with and what the SF ended up as? I did some 100% CO Oatflour, Goat's Milk, and Honey bars at 20% SF and 1 oz PPO Honey  and they were still quite drying to my skin. It seems that if I go above the number 17 in cleansing in soapcalc It's too drying for me. (with CO that is.) 

 

@Clear Black@KrisS,

I don't know that molecular water would sizzle or pop necessarily. I wonder if either they didn't just mix some air into the batch by accident, or if maybe one of the plasticizers has a lower than expected boiling point. You could put a cold plate over the top of the pot and it will collect the evaporant. Which might make it easier to figure out what the stuff is, methanol, water, light fractionated oil... 

8 hours ago, Shari said:

I agree with all the above.  I've been making soap for many years now and have only had DOS once, it was 100% CO soap with 0 SF.  Not sure what may have caused that but it's never happened again either.    As stated, many factors can play into your soapmaking and whan may/can cause DOS.  It's all about your formulation, tools, EO/FO's, water , storage, weather etc....

CO, as in Coconut oil? Wow that's creeperific... If you can get DOS in 100% CO soap with 0 SF there really must be some sort of black magic involved in making soap. (TBH, I always suspected as much...) 

3 hours ago, Clear Black said:

Wth...I ordered a new batch of wax about a month ago and am now just starting to use it. While melting the wax I noticed millions of tiny bubbles coming from the wax as it melted, giving the wax the look of carbonated water. I have never seen this happen and use the same wax from Candle Science as I always have. Also, when I added my FO this time, it took me 3 times as long to incorporate it while stirring. And I had to eventually pour before the wax hardened again, but the FO still wasnt fully incorporated. These are just testers so I am not selling, but what could be causing this carbonated effect in this wax? 4627 wax, same supplier as always. Nothing has changed. ?

How hot is the wax? I'm thinking water? I don't know much about these things but isn't this a pre-blended wax that has like (for lack of a better term) plasticizers in it? If that plastizier happens to be an organic oil it might be water. 

I have no idea, to be perfectly honest. 

On 11/26/2016 at 7:31 PM, Scented said:

On 11/27/2016 at 10:52 AM, Candybee said:

On 11/26/2016 at 7:41 PM, TallTayl said:

Thank you all for your help. I've been able to read the comments over the past couple of days and I appreciate it. I'd like to write more, but life has become a "tad busy" at the moment and bad soap is the least of my concerns. 

Slainte,

Sponiebr: leading competitor in the grand championships of BOHICA. 

Happy Thanksgiving all' y'all. 

I've seemed to have survived the onslaught of very small nieces and nephews on 3 hours of sleep. Yay! 

So, on to my trolling... I'm trolling here and other forums for these issues, not because it's actual "trolling", even though I AM a Troll, (technically EVERYTHING I post is trolling), I just need some concise input on these issues. These issues may not seem interconnected, but I sense that they are in fact very connected to each other.

1. DOS what it is, where do it come from, how to not get it, and most importantly how to intentionally develop DOS in a consistent manner.
So as I understand it DOS is basically rancid oil in soap, which is to say that the oils have oxidized and are now in a more acidic state than they were. In other places and arts oxidized oils are wonderful highly desired things because most oxidized oils produce a plastic like substance, that in woodworking we call varnish, but plastic/varnish spots in soap doesn't seem to sell well. As I understand it soap that can not breathe combined with heat UV exposure, and moisture all cause accelerated DOS formation. There also seems to be a direct link to DOS formation with formulations that have high linoleic &/or linolenic content. I have heard that it was wise to keep the numbers on the combined total of these 2 fatty acids below "x" in your lye calculator. I have heard it vary from 15 to 12, and I think I remember seeing one post that the OP tries to keep that total below 8. What do YOU say X is as the magic number to keep the linoleic & linolenic acids content below to prevent DOS formation?

2. Canola oil: I've got a mixed review on this fat. Some overwhelmingly approve of it's use to sub for Olive Oil, other's think it's a trashy oil with no lather character, and still other's that believe it to cause DOS.  I've got some of that oxide test batch made where the OO in my Standard formulation was replaced with Canola Oil. I didn't just use ANY Canola oil folks, I used the bottom of the barrel 1 pint at $.76 so off brand that the label read "Canola Oil 16 oz.  Product of Canada". My numbers for the linoleic & linolenic totaled 13. That soap seems to be actually quite nice, good fast white bubbly lather, good hardness, it is a slightly softer than my standard formulation with OO, but it seem's like a nice soap. This is causing me upset, as I also found 25 lb buckets of Armor Brand Lard at $.09/oz next to the insanely cheap they're-really-only-charging-you-for-the-plastic-bottle-and-paper-label $.04/oz canola oil. What to DO? What to do...?
 

3. What is the fastest and most efficient manner (without having to buy steaming equipment) to clean up and polish/shine/buff/make-them-so-that-at-least-they-don't-look-like-crap bars of soap? I was wondering if literally just rinsing the little chips and smudges off under running cold water, pat dry leave for a few hours to dry a little wouldn't be an acceptable method? Is damp pantyhose and the tedium of spit shining soap the only method out there? I've made a beveler and I just use a knife as a scraper to get that weird leathery white stuff off the top of the soap (I think it's soda ash, but it's tough and it only forms on the tops of my soap that are exposed while in the mold.  

4. Back to that oxide test batch, there were 3 uncolored bars that I got out of that batch, nice pretty white bars of lightly scented peppermint EO soap made with as I mentioned canola replacing my standard formulation to get 40% GV Tallow/Palm Shortening, 33% Canola, 22% CO, 5% Castor at @38% Water to Oil and 5%SF, Linoleic at 10 and Linolenic at 3.   (My standard uses 35% OO and 20% CO) Anywho, I'm thinking I should abuse the hell out of the remaining 2 uncolored bars e.g.: individually seal them in saran wrap and put into ziplock baggies one exposed to sunlight and heat and all the weirdness of Florida life that my car can offer, and the other kept inside my bedroom laying on my desk. I want to see if this is a viable soap option with the canola or not and there is a reason behind my curiosity regarding this and DOS formation. Last Sunday I was in my Hardware store and they were selling "lye soap" which was sealed up in a damaged plastic shrink wrap and SHOT THROUGH with DOS. The wrapper was all tattered and the soap was covered in grimy black hardware store dust, and it was just gross, but by the Mo-Jaal's hairy left butt cheek they were still trying to sell'm at $7 a bar!!!! Not really the point... My point is those bars in the AC developed DOS, so how do we get a solid case of DOS? Would that rinse I mentioned above increase the likelihood of DOS formation?

Repeat my mantra: If you know what a bad idea is, then it's exact opposite must be a good idea.  It's not always that easy to execute...

Your advice and experience, as always, is greatly esteemed.  

 Slainte, 

Sponiebr the Executor (actually I'm still suspended... but I'M TRY'N t'get back in the game!!!! ) 

HELLS YEAH TT!!!! Give'm Hell!!! o.O  O.O o.O