Sponiebr

10 hours ago, cindym said:

Looks pretty,  we want to see it cut please

Oh... No you don't... You THINK you want to see the carnage... But you don't... Trust me. (sigh) Photos to follow soon. 

45 minutes ago, Trappeur said:

Pretty soap and beautiful swirls!

 

Trappeur

Thanky! 

From ghoulies and ghosties
And long-leggedy beasties
And things that go bump in the night,
Good Lord, deliver us!

Now, maybe I can lure and catch a long leggedy with this soap...

Seriously, Auntie Clara's Ghost Swirl is bloody INSPIRED! I'm going to have to play with this A LOT more. I can't wait to cut this.   

Honey aloe with Ginger Red Saffron FO Ghost swirl.

I'm not getting a real clear answer from my web searches, so it's time to pick all y'all's brains.

Preface: Remove all additives from this discussion. It is understood that saponification is technically the root of the issue. 

Question: What causes soaps to overheat? 

For my hurricane fun daze in no power and bored blind, I have made some pretty basic 60% CO 40% GV Shortening 1% SF laundry soaps. I made smallish batches too... (32 oz oils) I used my smaller 42 oz silicone loaf mold which has a 1/4" thick light pinewood box it sits in. They BOTH went through COMPLETE gel phase fresh baked split down the top and all. The crack was only about 1/4-3/8" deep, and it kinda closed up after it cooled down a bit. The soap is fine, (actually it's wonderful), and I'm kinda liking this gel phase stuff because 3 hr old soap had NO zap and was becoming too hard to cut,  and in 5 hours I had ready to use soap. I kinda liked that. I used full water in both batches, which as I understand lowers the gel phase temperature, and I soaped at room temp. The first batch was just left at room temperature (about 78 degrees) and the second batch, (because I remembered what the first batch did), I insulated it and caused the whole loaf to go into full gel. Wonderful soap, hard as obsidian and as long as I cut it while it's still warm it cuts like a dream, after that I need a diamond concrete saw to cut it, and it is as white as your perception of your kid's innocence... I'm kind of concerned about doing a large batch in my wood mold because I have NO way to freeze that mold, or to otherwise chill it.

So what gives?

Cheers,

Sponie the (tired) Executor of (meh...)   

OH... This was NICE stuff to unmold... Crisp, clean, EASY... I mean, ya know, once I broke up the clingy love fest between the soap and the rubber it was easy to get out... No stickiness to the soap at all. It feels more "durable" than my other soaps, but it still feels like soap... It's kinda hard to describe... what's the word... Oh, Hard, that's the word. The soap is hard, but not like rock hard or 100% coconut oil soap hard... It's just nice, that is all. It seems to act pretty soapy in the sink when I went to wash up the molds... I dunno about the lather quality yet though.  

EDIT: The brine is wrong. It's a 2% overall brine solution 1.98% to be exact, sorry. 

Well, 

I undertook a challenge today because, well, I'm starting to think I may be a masochist. 20% Pine tar soap superfated to 10% with a salt brine at about 6.5% PPO, AND.... wait for it... 

Really this is epic... 

Beeswax. 

Yes, CP pine tar soap with 2% beeswax and BRINE. Betcha didn't think that could be done huh!? I must admit, I was "concerned" about the concept. I kept the temperatures as low as I could without getting separations AND I mixed EVERYTHING in at one time. Fats, incorporated beeswax (melted it in the nuker with some OO before adding it to the bulk fats), FO, and pine tar all mixed together and waiting the cool lye/brine. I'm guessing the fats were at about 115F -ish. It was baby bath water warm whatever that is...

So in goes the lye and as you might expect things moved... "quickly". Like, false heavy-medium trace ball in the middle with unincorporated fats around it the instant the lye solution hit the fats "quickly". I got it loosened up a tad when I forced the rest of the fats into the mix by beating them mercilessly with my Dollar Tree plastic whisk...(They'll get the spoon next time...) I just barely got it poured into the mold. It got hot, as pine tar is wont to do in the bowl as I'm pouring it... It got hotter because of the beeswax once it was IN the mold. It sweated like any normal stressed out thing that had just been beaten mercilessly into submission with a plastic Dollar Tree whisk would... o.O 
But THIS time when it sweated I got a surprise! YAY! Sugar frosted loaf of brownies!! No, no, not really, it's just salt. I know it's just salt because I tasted it. It's kinda cool looking though...  

I used Fraser Fir (CS) FO, but no peppermint . 

Now, you might find yourself wondering why would I DO that to myself? (WHY would he DO that to himself!?)!?  Well, the answer might be exotic like I might be a masochist, (He might be a masochist...) and as fun as that might be to tout about as a moniker, (sighs), the truth, (which no one wants to hear) is that it was for mundane reasons I created that mess. (pure sigh of ennui...)  

I did this really just to try and find a way of firming up an inherently soft soap with something that wasn't a hard butter and without using sodium lactate. Just an experiment really, but one that produced a soap that I need. So, yeah! I killed 1 duck with 2 howitzers. 

Anyway. Next up CP 100% stearic acid soap mixed with a stick blender... (I'm kidding!!!! I wouldn't do that to my stick blender...)   

Cheers,

Sponie the Executor of Bad Ideas. 

OMG!!! IT JUST CAME TO ME!!!!! (I'm just going to say it.) Instead of bath bomb, (oh yes... YOU KNOW the 3 letter word) bomb!

36 minutes ago, KrazeKelly said:

 

Hahaha!! That's funny as heck!!! How in the world did you read my company name on the label!!  You must have some good eyes!! Lol. ?

I still stayed polite. (I must be getting sick or sommat...)  LOL!

Shiney Hiny Soap Co? I think the name would be obvious... Hiney Tea! (Or some other name for the nether region... WHAT to call it though.... hmmmmm....) Tag line might be along the lines of "After one of those days where your (insert euphemism) is dragging a nice soak in "?? Tea" and you'll come out fresh as a daisy and with some "giddy" in your up.. "It'll perk your (cough) right up." 

Damn the scissors and run like hell with it! 

Oh... But I AM Sponie the Executor of Bad Ideas.

10 hours ago, KrazeKelly said:

 

LOL!! Occasionally I sit down. ? The orange Patchouli is a FO and EO blend and I added the Lavender EO to it. 

Well... She... 

10 hours ago, Scented said:

So the key then is to drop into the lye to force the color to surface and then to filter out the seeds as you add the lye to your oils. As with anything, experiment then to get the desired color or do you have a good idea of what you'll get? 

As then say your stuff is powdered already ... how does this work? Like I think it is annetto that I have, but it's in powder form. Can this just be added to the water and lye to draw out the color and would it say not leave behind a gritty, grainy substance or would it just not work. Thank you so very much for the pictures to show me what you're doing. 

Sorry Scented... I didn't catch this until I got my digest. The red coating on the seeds is the bixin so you're not really forcing anything to the surface. What you are doing in the lye process is skipping ahead of the oil process and doing a direct saponification of the bixin in place to make the norbixin which ends up giving you a yellow. In the oil method you're just dissolving the bixin off the seeds and (pretty much like nail polish remover), you're just washing it off basically. I don't see why using ground seeds wouldn't work. The real challenge is to get it cleaned before adding it to your fats. ANY little mote of undissolved annatto bixin will leave a BRIGHT yellow spot in your soap. If you're going for that look it's great! In fact if you were to add a smidgen of ground annatto to your fats it would probably look pretty kewl, assuming you DEFINITELY wanted yellow dots all over the place. 

With either method you just gotta make sure you're getting it cleaned out and all you are left with is yellow oil (or lye water). PERSONALLY... I had better luck with the oil method. I'll tack on the link to where I learned all this annatto insanity from. In all fairness he did use MUCH more seed in his lye than I did AND he let it soak longer than I did.  

Having said this, I would be SURE that your colorant is in fact annatto, and NOT turmeric. I still haven't determined if it was the turmeric that heated up that Jamacia me Crazy batch, but if it did, (and I think it did) I'd consider turmeric to be a dangerous additive because of the heating it creates. 1.75 oz flat 2x2x.75" thick cups heated to cracked gel in the open air in a 69F air conditioned room with the AC blowing in their direction. THAT kind of unexpected vigorous reaction stuff scares the CRAP outta me. 

Here's the annatto link: http://www.soap-making-resource.com/annatto-seeds-soap-making.html

30 minutes ago, Chefmom said:

To calculate how much oil to start with for any loaf or slab mold I've always used the formula that is all over online

Length of mold x width of mold x depth of mold x .4 = total weight of oils in formula

 

It has always worked for me

Yep, I got .43 from my estimates, but .4 would be a better number to go with. I originally used .65 which is what the ratio from finished batch to volume is... I'm glad to know that I'm on the right path. Thank you! 

6 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

It just sounds to me like you calculated for oils only and forgot about the water... (I could be wrong, but this is what happens to me when I calculate for oils only! LOL) 

 

The mold is nice! I have so much wood, I need to make some molds. One of these days. It's on the list. LOL 

Green, when used lightly, does tend to get grey in the wet soap, but will later cure out to a nice green. (most of the time, not always) purples tend to do the same thing. 

Anyway, stay proud! You did a good job making the mold, you just need to adjust your soap amounts, and all will be well.

Hum... The last bit of my sentence seems to have gotten cut off...  It should have been "No matter how proud I am of a thing, it always seems to boil down to it's just not that great a volume as I think it is."   

It was just the wrong constant. There are 3 that could be used, one is physical vol of mold: weight in oz, another is mold vol:oil weight, and another is batch weight to volumetric oz. I used that last one. Each oil mixture ends up being a different physical weight in the end because 8 oz of OO isn't the same physical size as 8 oz of shortening, and the both of them with the water and all isn't... (you know what I mean...) 

5 hours ago, bfroberts said:

Nice looking mold you've got there.  I'd say all in all it was a complete success!  And now you know exactly how much it takes to do a double batch with both molds. 
 

How'd the Cucumber Mint do in soap?  I've been meaning to soap with it, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

The CS Cucumber Mint was very well behaved! Just like adding nothing at all, it was really one of the nicest FO's I've worked with. The end scent was something akin to that Avon Bubble bath in the pink ribbed bottle they had back when I was a kid. It's aging nicely though. The little flecks of yellow are from some unfiltered annatto infused olive oil I had to add at the last bit to get the color guesstimated correctly... ( Does anyone else see a problem with that statement? ) 

My church wants some soaps for their fall bazaar... I'm thinking of giving them 6 or so bars of my OMH... Not sure yet.  

So! I made me a very nice adjustable loaf mold with swing down hinged sides. It'll make anything 3.5" x 2.75" from 18" long to 8" long. (8 is as low as I went, but I could make a smaller brick if I wanted.) I set me mold up to 12" long 3.5x2.75 and did my volume calculations at 115.5 cin.  Here's where it gets fun. I messed up on how much I really needed to fill that space and produced almost 2 times the required amount. My batch ended up being just over 7 lbs. and well... That was too much soap. It was enough to completely fill my regular silicone little loaf to the normal fill height, in other words I got 2 loaves of soap out of this batch.  my constant should have been .43 and not .65. 

I also used annatto lye method in this soap. It was a CS Cucumber Mint loaf and I wanted it to be a pale pistachio light green. So I made up the soap with yellow creating lye solution and added ultramarine to get the green. It traced in as a gray tan/ with blue in it... It was wet concrete ugly. The later turned green as the soap cured. 

I am just proud of that mold, and I really wanted to just fill it up and have a little left over for some test cups, but I got 2 FULL loaves out of it... I guess this is like so many hard to learn lessons in my life: No matter how proud I am of a thing, it always seems to boil down to it's just not that great. 

Cheers, -Sponie

The new adjustable soap mold. Note the color? It's kind of gray green? It turned a little more sea foam green later on. 

This is the annatto seeds in the hot lye water. They should have been left in there for about 4 hours. I think they only got 3 tops. I strained them out with some pantyhose and a extra fine mesh stainless strainer. 

Clockwise from top left: CS Cucumber Mint, OMH, and Himalayan bamboo. 

Cheers! Hope you enjoy the picts! 

On 9/24/2016 at 3:03 PM, Scented said:

I wanna see these words of yours in picture

  Scented, this is the annatto in lye water method: What happens is the bixin is a non water soluble waxy color coating on the seeds, and when you put it in lye the bixin saponifies into norbixin which is water soluble. Bixin produces a orange color in soap and norbixin produces a very bright yellow. 

When I mixed this into my fats (I strained it first through an extra fine stainless steel strainer with pantyhose over it.) it traced kind of an oatmeal tan, it wasn't really yellow at all. It did turn more yellow later on after curing a bit. I've got another topic I'll post regarding annatto lye method.  -Sponie

Quote

 This makes a gentle, creamy and economical family soap.

I was just thinking about making a pine tar lard batch... I have a pound of Armour lard that I was deliberating what to do with it. I can't stand the smell of 100% lard based soap, does blending it knock the piggy smell down a bit? 

Well, I've never made these, but I used to buy them when I was over in Europe. As I recall the wick was about 1/16" thick and the top edge of the sheet was tapered so that you would start the rolling at the maximum width and the rolling would taper down to the maximum thickness of the candle body. So let's say a 10 inch long candle would have about 15 turns of wax on it, and only the bottom 6 inches or so was a constant thickness and the rest tapered up to the flame end. The melting wax would drip down into the spiraling seams and sort of solidify the top end of the candle.  There were never any wick tabs or anything, just basically a string wrapped in beeswax comb.

I make soap, not candles, but I am very familiar with using these candles for both lighting and as a source for getting beeswax. 

HTH, (maybe?) 

Sponie 

12 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Here is a really simple formula you can plug and play with. I use a 1:1 base with sugar usually. SOmetimes I go as high as 1:1.5 (more sugar for a stiffer end product). Depending on how much you whip it can be fluffy. I make a large batch of base to add sugar, scent, colors, etc. later as ordered.

 

Emulsifying Sugar Scrub Base
number of jars	1.00
Total oz per jar (with sugar)	9.00
Total oz 50% base)	4.50
`	base	122.8
Original	total to make	130.5	4.5
Ingredient	Percent	Measurement (g)	Measurement (oz)
Ewax (I use other emulsifiers here for different feel)       Ewax calculated at 25% of total oils. Can go lower if your oils emulsify easily).	16.3%	20.7	0.73125
cetyl alcohol	7.0%	8.9	0.315
Liquid Oil (l blend several)	55.0%	70.2	2.475
		0.0	0
Glycerine (if none, add to liquid oil)	5.0%	6.4	0.225
Hard Butters (i use cocoa butter, shea, etc.)	10.0%	12.8	0.45
stearic acid(if none, add to hard butters)	3.0%	3.8	0.135
		0.0	0
FO	3.0%	3.8	0.135
Preservative	0.5%-1% as directed	0.6	0.0225
	99.8%

o.O I'm kinda getting jazzed about the whole powdered laundry detergent, cooking oil, and sugar concept here... I think it might work...
 

It looks like I'm going to have to order the ewax, cetyl alcohol, and germban or optiphen, and stearic acid. Who do you recommend for a dealer? 

2 hours ago, KrazeKelly said:

Here's another one for you also. The photo is the recipe I use. It's Kelly Blooms recipe and you can find a video on YouTube of her making it. I just changed the oils in it and use babassu oil instead of coconut oil. Weigh out the EWax, stearic acid and beeswax and melt on lowest heat. Weigh your other oils. I melt the babassu or coconut oil before adding to liquid oils and mix my sugars or salts in separate bowls. Once the EWax mixture is melted, you stir into your other liquid oils. It should start thickening pretty quickly and changing to a creamy color. Let it cool to recommended temperature before adding preservative. Mix well. Then add your sugars or salts and fragrance. Mix well and spoon into your containers. It will harden as it sets overnight. This makes a gallon of scrub, which is about 15-16 8oz jars. It's a pretty large batch so use a big bowl. Hope that all makes sense. ?

There's no water in this... so what's the optiphen for? Is it there because predictably a hygroscopic bath product will be used in a bath environment and eventually draw in moisture? 

Get better Kelly! There are dirty people out there who could possibly stay dirty unless you are able to make soap that could possibly be sold to them...

It's possible...

I'm just say'n... 

Where, or how, does one determine if a pigment is ok for use in soaps? Is it a specific blessing that the Feral Demagoguery Agency bestows upon a specific product or is it the substance itself that qualifies it as blessed or damned? For instance: Pure Chromium oxide III from "XYZ inc" is known to be "safe" because XYZ inc sells soap making schtuff. ACME corp. also has pure Chromium oxide III for concrete colorant. The products from both companies are both pure, true, worthy, have the same particle size, and (gasp) they have THE SAME NAMES!!!!! You say coincidence, I say serendipity... SO, is ACME's product ok use in soaps/bath/bubbles/and beyond? Which is ok? Which is not ok? Did the word "concrete" affect your feelings on this subject? If so please explain in exactly 20 consonants. If not, please re-read the above again until a feeling is obtained...  

Along the same lines, where DOES one find out what the actual oxides are that soap safe materials retailers sell? TiO₃, Cr₂O₃ III, α-Fe₂O_{3  (red)} & β-Fe₂O_{3 (yellow)}, and Sodium alumina sulphosilicate I know. I know there are not many other ones out there... but still, what about trace metals in iron oxides, you know like, copper, tin, or nickel?  I realize that they might turn funky colors later on, (I'm thinking of a mica... right now.) but, would they be unsafe?  

In the immortal words of Frank Bartles:

"Thank you for your support."

-Sponie

On 9/27/2016 at 4:09 PM, heartsong said:

 

 This is what I buy and free shipping works out to be $3.95 a pound...very clean and mixes instantly.

http://www.essentialdepot.com/product/NAOH-10-FOOD_GRADE.html

I am utterly amazed at this site... Some deals are mind blowingly awesome, other are astronomically overpriced. 1kg of Argan oil for $28~ and 4 oz of Jojoba oil for $37~, whaaaaaaat? The 16 lbs of lye is an awesome deal, and so is the 5 lbs of shea butter, their KOH for 4 lbs. is $14.89, but 2 lbs. is $5.99... Interesting stuff... I may have to get in there and get some of that shea butter, argan oil, and some KOH, and poke around a bit more.  

7 hours ago, WanderlustSoaps said:

 

So Sponiebr, when I made this post I showed a picture from my excel file, by actually posting that pic it led me to find that at some point I had accidentally deleted huge chunks of data in my oil table, which then caused me to find a few other minor (but really difficult to correct) issues.  I had been happily using my spreadsheet for two weeks and did not notice any of these issues, but of course once I found one I found some others.  Anyway here is what the table should have looked like when comparing those two oils.

 

 

Jeeze... I think I'll pass on the canoodle (SP?) oil for the Lenoleic Acid value alone, as that looks a TAD prone to DOS... It actually didn't look too hideous in soapcalc with my formulation, but not anything I would seek out unless I had no other choice e.g.: 

"Honey? where's my jug of olive oil?"

"Oh... I threw it out."

"Why!?"  

"Because it was bad." 

"What makes you say that?"

"It was GREEN... Duh!!!"  

(That specific exchange never happened to me...  I was just giving an example... )

2 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Scrubs can be as simple as an oil and sugar (or salt). Choices of oils becomes pretty important since some oils feel grosser than others.

Olive oil feels pretty gross... Let me tell you!

2 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

emulsified/emulsifying scrubs are oils, sugar/salt/whatever with an emulsifier like ewax, polysorbates, BTMS, etc to create a lotion like substance when the scrub hits water. 

 

Bubbling scrubs contain foaming surfactant blends to make the product emulsify and foam for a different feel.

 

solid scrubs have more binders and bulking agents to reduce packaging. 

 

Jergens, etc. mixed with sugar become syrup since the water in the lotion will dissolve the sugar, yuk.

That youtuber may have used something else, but the upshot was "store bought unscented lotion" of some ilk with some cooking extract and food coloring added to a huge amount of sugar. 

2 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

i have seen Pinterest recipes with oils,sugar and dawn detergent. Not my cuppa, but if it works, hey! 

(FACE PALM!) Really!? This exists? I was at work when I mixed that mess up and I only grabbed it because I thought better of using TSP... I'll try the TSP... What's the WORSE that could happen, right?

2 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

In the end, a scrub should polish away the dull, dead upper layer of skin cells to leave behind a soft, healthy glow. I like emulsifying types so my shower floor does not become an oil slick. Sometimes I like a solid, like for travel. The bubbling ones often leave me feeling a little too dry. You can use sugar, walnut hulls. Vanilla pods, luffa, whatever you like!

I'm wondering if a little of my CO soap grated into some oil and mixed with some sugar might be sufficient to create a scrub that wouldn't require adding preservative or emulsifiers... I may have to produce an amount of scrub here sometime in the next month or 2 and I'd like to sort this out well in advance so I don't end up having to buy a $60 scrub kit. 

One of these day's I'll listen to the screaming voices of reason in my head and run when they tell me to run. 

Thanks TT. that's a MUCH better synopsis than anything I've been able to find so far. 

(sighs)

I really hate to have to ask this, but I need help with defining scrubs. One would think that as much of a google troll as I am, I might actually be able to come up with a basic answer to this, but, alas the screams of confusion drown out any voice of reasonable clarity as to what exactly is a sugar scrub. 

So far I can deduce that a scrub is something with a dissolving or non dissolving particulate matter that would in other disciplines be simply called an abrasive. This abrasive may be suspended, mixed, colloidal, emulsified, emolliating, cleansing, healing, rejuvenating, invigorating, titillating, regressing, anti aging, restorative, and/or all of the above in their respective states or non states of being made from completely all natural, food grade, pure, organic, sustainable, non genetically modified, tamper free, cruelty free, ethical, bipartisan, Unitarian, non judgmental, nourishing, ingredients.  How did civilization make it thus far with out SUGAR scrubs!? I realized that I want this, NO... I NEED THIS, in my LIFE, and in my diet, and... Well... I should marinate in this stuff and maybe become an REAL person someday! BUT WAIT!!!! THERE'S MORE!!!! 

There are formulations, concoctions, and "recipes" for this ONE SIMPLE TRICK that will CHANGE YOUR LIFE and that the Government DEFINITELY doesn't want you to know about! 

!!!!CLICK/MOUSE/LOOK/GLANCE/NOTICE HERE!!!! IF you want to find out about this ridiculously EASY life hack THAT YOU NEVER KNEW ABOUT and to find salvation from the INDUSTRY and how to save 15 cents or more on car insurance!!!!!!

(click)

So this "ridiculously EASY life hack THAT "I" NEVER KNEW ABOUT" is a 35 minute video on how to mix 1 bottle of Jergen's hand lotion with a 5 lb bag of white table sugar and 1 drop of food coloring and how to put it into a mason jar.  OR It's just mix coconut oil and brown sugar together. It might be you need to get e wax, or bath whip, or some other purchasable product to get this  ridiculously EASY life hack THAT YOU NEVER KNEW ABOUT to work.

Then there are the suppliers selling their interpretative formulations/recipes to get you to buy the kit/or ingredients, and I totally get that one, "hey you can make this fine product by using our fine line of "x". That's fine, in fact I really appreciate companies providing example formulations for types of products within product categories.

So, I tried, against my common sense and understanding of how chemistry and life works, (or at least my limited understanding of how oil and water works), to just mix oil and sugar together. It left me feeling, what's the term..., ah!  GROSS. Yes, my hands felt GROSS and covered in oil after that. The only good thing was the sugar rinsed off with no problem.  I thought, "Yep! You were right! That WAS a BAD idea. It needs a surfactant/soap."  I added dish washing liquid to it, and again I was RIGHT. That was a MUCH more pleasant experience.  I've seen the foaming bath scrubs and I've seen the emolliated scrubs, jojoba beads, etc... but I have NOT seen anything that defines WHAT a sugar scrub is supposed to be. Is it a leave on oil? Is it a wash? It's obviously NOT a simple exfoliant.  

So what IS a "scrub", and what IS a "scrub" actually supposed to do? What is a scrub's most basic form? 

End psychotic rant.

-Sponie: The Executor of Bad Ideas.