Soap--room temps?

Hi guys: first time to post in this forum, so i hope this

isn't a previous question; I did a search, couldn't find an answer to this--all of the soap books that I've read and a few recipes that I used always stress "equal" temps between the lye water & oils. Yet I've ran across a few recipes that temp didn't seem to be the main focus. One recipe mixes the lye water overnight, oils at room temp and then proceeds as usual? Am I focusing too much on temps? I've made a few batches of soap, but nothing that I was really pleased with.

Pawz, I was getting ready to start a discussion thread on this subject myself, so thank you.

I'm from the old school where lye and oil temps should match. I've seen alot here about soaping RT and have done searches several times to try to figure out what the big draw is. As of yet, I haven't found the answer. So I hope there's lots of discussion on this, as I'd really like to understand it.

I'm interested too, cuz I would like to masterbatch. Things I wonder-does the lye sit overnight? Do I still need to melt the hard oils? Or do you make the lye water, use it hot and not melt the hard oils? :embarasse

I soap with the oils at RT or just warm when I touch the side of the pot. Lye is always RT and I let it sit overnight or make a masterbatch of lye water mixture that I always have on hand. all My soaps are GM so if it's 100% GM I don't use water at all but just pour the lye right over the top of frozen solid GM (sometimes when I pour that into the oils it's still a little chilly!) If it's not 100% gm I add my lye dissolved in water cooled to RT to the oils then emulsify till belnded together then add RT or slightly cool GM.

Clear as mud?

The draw for me is prettier bars. The cooler you soap GM the whiter the bar. Also some bars I do not want to gel so the cooler you start the less chance you have of having it heat up (some still do no matter what!) too much in the end.

You can not melt the hard oils and use a hot lye water mixture. I can't do that with GM too well and also certain FO's but there are a lot of people who swear by that method. I find it still gets too hot for me. - but GM heats up just fine all by itself so that may be the reason why.

Why other people do RT I do not know...but for me it's definetely about working successfully with GM.

HTH!

First - different strokes for different folks. Your needs might be way different than mine. I soap cool because I have time for swirls and can use "iffy" FOs mopre easily.

BTW: There's also a certain school of thought that defines RT soaping as you leave your oils and butters at room temp (don't pre-melt, mix and cool - just leave as is) and then pour fresh, hot lye solution over them to melt as you SB. It's a simple method and many swear by it but I myself cannot get consistent results.

Eugenia turned me on to the room temp method I call "Patience". Make your lye solution and set it aside. Melt your butters and add your oils and mix and set the mix aside. When both are at room temperature move ahead.

I don't use this method if I have a recipe high in stearic acid - aka a lot of palm kernel oils, some beeswax, or other really hard butters that cause things to cloud up - then I warm my oils slightly. I also don't use this method if I'm making castile because it takes forever to trace so I will proceed when the lye is still warm (not hot).

I caution newer soapers that if you soap cool like this you may reach what is called a "false trace". If you have reached true trace it won't thin out or separate when you stop mixing. So I say start warm (NOT HOT) at say 100 degrees for your first few batches with well behaved FOs and such. When you are ready to start experimenting with FOs and additives and such, soap at room temp so you have more control.

One thought about the "same temp" thing is that if you add cool lye to warm oils the temp shift can cause your oils to thicken up and look like trace when it's really not (false trace).

My first 2-4 batches were in that lye and oils at the same temp, about 100. Then I read about soaping at room temp tends to help with some difficult oils, but so did soaping with the FO added to the oils. It's just become a preference of mine. I always felt that the hotter the mix the quicker one had to move and I wasn't into rushing, so I just started waiting for all the oils and the lye containers to become cool to the touch. I still melt all oils and combine them before adding oil. When they're really cool they tend to get a cloudy look to them, but I haven't noticed that it affects the appearance. I never tried it with adding the lye to unmelted hard oils, but I think there's a process that does that. I read where the hard oils weren't melting completely from the heat caused by the lye added to the oils and figured it was something I didn't have the patience to endure.

kidsngarden, thanks for your input. I hear ya on the GM thing. I also freeze my GM. I mainly HP, and during my recent return to CP for swirling purposes, I've confirmed why I went to HP... due to the ash, gawd, I hate it, lol. But anyway, today I did a GM soap and didn't HP it afterwards. I even put it in the fridge to keep it from gelling (first time doing that), lol. Oh, and I even put Glad wrap over it. It seems to have stayed nice and white so far, with a nice swirl in it. So we'll see. Now I just dread that friggin ash, sigh.

Carebear, thanks for your input also. I did find through my searching that there are a couple different ways to soap RT. That only made it worse, lol.

Also, when I soap, both my lye and my oils are the same temp. The lye is not cooler than the oils. But I have actually seen recipes where they had the lye temp cooler than the oils and thought, wow, that's asking for trouble. So it's good you mentioned it so any newbies will know about it.

Ah, Scented, you snuck in there on me, lol.

"I never tried it with adding the lye to unmelted hard oils, but I think there's a process that does that. I read where the hard oils weren't melting completely from the heat caused by the lye added to the oils and figured it was something I didn't have the patience to endure."

Yeah, I don't think I'll be doing that anytime soon, I'm not that desperate for entertainment, lol.

That's the method I love to use. Now if you have a real hard butter it won't work you'll have to warm it on the stove, but the lye is pretty good at melting shea and mango. Small batches are hard to work with though, but so far I haven't had a big problem. I don't do florals much and when I do next time I'll try rt, because florals can be a nightmare with this method.

OK I have to ask a question now. Why...I mean does anyone know what makes florals a pain to work with? Any hint? Something used to stabilize plant something in the oils makes it spread to the soap and it attacks it or something?

Pawz, I was getting ready to start a discussion thread on this subject myself, so thank you.

I'm from the old school where lye and oil temps should match. I've seen alot here about soaping RT and have done searches several times to try to figure out what the big draw is. As of yet, I haven't found the answer. So I hope there's lots of discussion on this, as I'd really like to understand it.

You're welcome Louise, judging from the input below, I think we'll get our answer:) I am a very new soaper, so I guess sometimes I tend to do too much research.

KidsnGarden, Care Bear, Scented, and Soycrazy, thank you for your replies, they will surely help this new soaper

Scented, I don't want to rush either I will try the rt , does anyone have a suggestion for a first recipe to try with rt?

or can I use a very basic recipe?

OK I have to ask a question now. Why...I mean does anyone know what makes florals a pain to work with? Any hint? Something used to stabilize plant something in the oils makes it spread to the soap and it attacks it or something?

I wish I could help Vio, but someone will help I'm sure

You're welcome Louise, judging from the input below, I think we'll get our answer:) I am a very new soaper, so I guess sometimes I tend to do too much research.

Pawz, I am of the belief that one can never do enough research or ask enough questions. I've been soaping for several years now and continue to learn new things as handcrafted soaping evolves and changes. And it's communities like this one that allow us to ask questions and share information.

So, yes, a big thank you to all who are sharing so freely.

I second that Louise

you can use a very basic recipe and it will be fine.

OK I have to ask a question now. Why...I mean does anyone know what makes florals a pain to work with? Any hint? Something used to stabilize plant something in the oils makes it spread to the soap and it attacks it or something?

Not all florals will move rapidly or even fast. Sometimes a herbal combo will though, so it's just not only florals.

For instance ... ultraviolet is a floral scent, but not a mover. Same with sweet pea, even honeysuckle. The ones I use take their lollygaggin' sweet time to get their move on.

But some scents might have a certain spicy note in them that makes them act like their pants are on fire or they're in a race for something and they go quickly. Kai, despite the notes I saw on it, moved and it moved faster than the fast I kind of thought it might go. Fata Morgana moved quickly on me too, but not as quickly as the Kai, just enough that putting seven colors in it was a real bonehead thing to try.

Solas' Frosted Snowdrops ... immediate mover. Almost was able to make a concrete block with it (cept I was so mad I threw it away.)

Thanks for the information. I guess I really should ask if I ever intend to do any fo, just to see what others have experienced with it. Thanks.

Register at the Scent Review Board: http://soapscentreview.obisoap.ca/. You will be able to see people's experiences with hundreds of FOs. Be sure to post your own of course!

Thank you CareBear I will do that!

If you are going to soap a floral, soap as cold as possible and use a whisk instead of a stick blender once you add the floral F?O. It will give you more time to incorporate everything.

I haven't soap a floral yet but I've read tons on them over at the Dish. Many HP their floral F/Os too so that's another option.

I've read a great deal about how they can be so finicky in CP.

I got lots of F/O I can use before getting to the florals and spicier scent that are also a headach to CP

Fire

I hope I never see the day a soap seizes. What do you feed soap fairies with again? LOL

they like fudge brownie

I hope I never see the day a soap seizes. What do you feed soap fairies with again? LOL

No you want to see it so you know what happens. Seriously. Now you don't want it to happen to a large batch the first time it does happen.

And if you feed them they stay. So don't feed them.

LMAO OK so I need to see it once, so will stay small with fo's till I know if they do it check! LOL And will keep fudge brownies on hand anyway. I like them, so if I tell husband it's for soap fairies, he won't eat them on me!