Natasha2106 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I've been searching on the site and cannot find an answer. I hope someone can give me some advice on this. Does it really make a difference whether I add the fo at 85 degree celcius or 80 degrees? Will adding at just 10 degrees either way will affect the hot throw in a candle or melt?? I use a double boiler to melt my wax and sometimes I find the wax can get over 90 - 95 degrees, so I then remove and wait for it to cool to 85 before adding my fo. I always try to add at 85, but sometimes it is slighter over or just under. Also is it best not to let the wax go over 85 whilst melting? Does this also have an impact on the results of candle? I use my notes on adding fragrances and seem to be getting mixed results, even tho I do the same process. The only variant is sometimes the melting wax gets slighter hotter, and other times my temperature of fo added at is slightly off 85 degrees. I hope this all makes sense. Sometimes its hard to put in writing what I'm trying to get at - lol . thanks all xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedark Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I’m not sure what wax you are using but I use EcoSoya Advanced CB soy wax and I have tried adding the fragrance oils at various temperatures from 65 deg C to 85 deg C and I haven’t found much difference but I did find that oils added at 60 deg C or less did not incorporate well. Some oils did appear to have a slightly stronger hot scent throw when added at lower temperatures (65 to 75 deg C) while others were slightly stronger when added at higher temperatures. The biggest thing I found that drastically effected the hot scent throw was the correct settling time for the candles. That came from doing a lot of testing, some fragrances worked well after 2 weeks and other took in excess of 6 weeks to perform well. It may be possible that fragrance oils that contain a considerable amount of essential oils might be effected by being added at a higher temperature but the ones that I have tried which are heavily weighted on the essential oil side appear to be fine when added at 85 deg C. All I can say is test your wax and fragrance combinations at various temperatures to find out. In relation to overheating wax, I have over heated Advanced, 464 and parasoy wax’s to over 100 deg C and found that no negative side effects occurred if they were cooled quickly, (I have used fragrance oil to cool over heated wax quickly but I don’t encourage it) I don’t however recommend over heating wax. I try to heat all of my soy waxes to somewhere between 80 to 82.2 deg C and usually add my fragrance oils at 82.2 deg C but I really find that the parasoy I use, requires the fragrances to be added at no less than 85 deg C. I usually discard any wax that accidently gets heated to 110 deg C +. From the research that I have undertaken over the last few years, I have found that you will generally know if you have destroyed your wax by over heating it because it will either go yellow as opposed to white or it may smell a little bit funky. I have never actually made the wax reach either a yellow or odorous state and I have overheated quite a few batches over the years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natasha2106 Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 17 hours ago, inthedark said: I’m not sure what wax you are using but I use EcoSoya Advanced CB soy wax and I have tried adding the fragrance oils at various temperatures from 65 deg C to 85 deg C and I haven’t found much difference but I did find that oils added at 60 deg C or less did not incorporate well. Some oils did appear to have a slightly stronger hot scent throw when added at lower temperatures (65 to 75 deg C) while others were slightly stronger when added at higher temperatures. The biggest thing I found that drastically effected the hot scent throw was the correct settling time for the candles. That came from doing a lot of testing, some fragrances worked well after 2 weeks and other took in excess of 6 weeks to perform well. It may be possible that fragrance oils that contain a considerable amount of essential oils might be effected by being added at a higher temperature but the ones that I have tried which are heavily weighted on the essential oil side appear to be fine when added at 85 deg C. All I can say is test your wax and fragrance combinations at various temperatures to find out. In relation to overheating wax, I have over heated Advanced, 464 and parasoy wax’s to over 100 deg C and found that no negative side effects occurred if they were cooled quickly, (I have used fragrance oil to cool over heated wax quickly but I don’t encourage it) I don’t however recommend over heating wax. I try to heat all of my soy waxes to somewhere between 80 to 82.2 deg C and usually add my fragrance oils at 82.2 deg C but I really find that the parasoy I use, requires the fragrances to be added at no less than 85 deg C. I usually discard any wax that accidently gets heated to 110 deg C +. From the research that I have undertaken over the last few years, I have found that you will generally know if you have destroyed your wax by over heating it because it will either go yellow as opposed to white or it may smell a little bit funky. I have never actually made the wax reach either a yellow or odorous state and I have overheated quite a few batches over the years. Thank you for this info. I've been testing for just over 12 months now and I'm seriously out of money and need to start to get to try to make some money on these, but I'm never 100% happy with the results so I end up starting the testing again. I'm wondering is there every a perfect candle and burn. I have purchased candles from highstreet retailers and found that they soot really bad with some of their fragrances, and I am not wanting this. You said that you find that adding at 82.2 is best, but for parasoy no less than 85. So it really makes a difference even in the slight .2 degrees. I'm worried that I need to try and add at 0.5 intervals and test. Wow, I do have a lot more testing by the looks of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedark Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I’m in the same boat as you, I’ve been trying to come up with the perfect candle for over 2 years and I still don’t have anything that is perfect, I’ve come up with blends that work but none are perfect and out of 300 + fragrances that I have tested, I have found 17 that I like and 3 of those are proving very difficult to wick in soy wax to get a decent and reliable flame. I am on the verge of quitting candle making but I must admit that I am seriously addicted to it and like most addictions, it can cost you serious amounts of money. I am now getting so desperate that I am experimenting with parasoy wax blends. You are quite right about some of the retail candles, they do tend to soot quite badly once the wick gets a bit of length on it and I have one brand (starts with a D) that I burn as a comparison which is very expensive, quite popular and it soots it’s back side off and intermittently sets off the smoke alarm. In regards to the temperature, I say 82.2 deg C just to make my own life difficult but it can be any ware from 80 to 85 deg C without any major detectable hot or cold scent throw difference with soy wax. The parasoy that I am playing with at the moment is a no name brand, the supplier doesn’t list the manufacturer so I have to experiment with it to find out it’s likes and dislikes, so far I have found out that the optimal scent throw occurs when the fragrance is added at or around 85 deg C with my chosen testing fragrance oil but that will probably vary with different brands of wax and fragrances. The parasoy does tend to get quite sooty (regardless if it’s a CDN or HTP wick) when the wick is long and the flame is disturbed or dancing, just like some of the major brand candles. In relation to temperatures, most thermometers usually have some sort of tolerance than can be plus or minus 1 or 2 degrees from the actual wax temperature. I use infrared and conventional digital thermometers and they never give the same read out. The two infrared thermometers that I have provide a fairly consistent 1.5 degree difference between them. What I would do with any new soy wax that I decide to try is heat the wax to around 82 to 85 deg C, add the fragrance oil at or around 82 deg C, stir in gently for around 2 minutes, let it cool to a temperature of between 72 to 76 deg C and take a sniff from the top of the pot to check the hot scent throw potential, I say between 72 and 76 deg C because that is quite often the melted wax pool temperature when a soy wax candle is burning but this is no guarantee that the hot scent will be the same once the candle has cured, it only gives you a rough indication of its potential. I then let the wax cool or reheat the wax to pouring temperature and pour slowly to minimize adding in to many air bubbles. Let the candle cure for a week and then burn it to check the hot scent throw, if the hot scent throw is weak or non-existent, I then wait another week and burn it again and keep doing this for an 8 week period. If I find that I really need a candle burning fix within a 24 hour period from creation, I usually make one 8 ounce tin and one glass container (with a similar opening size to the 8 ounce tin) from the same wax batch, let the glass container sit for a few weeks and burn the tin candle to get the “I have to burn it now “ sensation over with. If the hot scent throw from the tin is really disappointing or non-existent, I then let the tin candle sit for another week and then burn it again for a 3 -4 hour session and check the hot scent throw. I keep doing this for an 8 week period. If I still have an average hot scent throw by the end of the 8 week period, I then burn the glass container candle. If the glass container candle provides an average or substandard hot scent throw after an 8 week period, I place the fragrance in the “has to be tried with other waxes” bin or don’t persevere working with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 On 10/28/2016 at 6:15 PM, inthedark said: I’m in the same boat as you, I’ve been trying to come up with the perfect candle for over 2 years and I still don’t have anything that is perfect, I’ve come up with blends that work but none are perfect and out of 300 + fragrances that I have tested, I have found 17 that I like and 3 of those are proving very difficult to wick in soy wax to get a decent and reliable flame. I am on the verge of quitting candle making but I must admit that I am seriously addicted to it and like most addictions, it can cost you serious amounts of money. I am now getting so desperate that I am experimenting with parasoy wax blends. You are quite right about some of the retail candles, they do tend to soot quite badly once the wick gets a bit of length on it and I have one brand (starts with a D) that I burn as a comparison which is very expensive, quite popular and it soots it’s back side off and intermittently sets off the smoke alarm. In regards to the temperature, I say 82.2 deg C just to make my own life difficult but it can be any ware from 80 to 85 deg C without any major detectable hot or cold scent throw difference with soy wax. The parasoy that I am playing with at the moment is a no name brand, the supplier doesn’t list the manufacturer so I have to experiment with it to find out it’s likes and dislikes, so far I have found out that the optimal scent throw occurs when the fragrance is added at or around 85 deg C with my chosen testing fragrance oil but that will probably vary with different brands of wax and fragrances. The parasoy does tend to get quite sooty (regardless if it’s a CDN or HTP wick) when the wick is long and the flame is disturbed or dancing, just like some of the major brand candles. In relation to temperatures, most thermometers usually have some sort of tolerance than can be plus or minus 1 or 2 degrees from the actual wax temperature. I use infrared and conventional digital thermometers and they never give the same read out. The two infrared thermometers that I have provide a fairly consistent 1.5 degree difference between them. What I would do with any new soy wax that I decide to try is heat the wax to around 82 to 85 deg C, add the fragrance oil at or around 82 deg C, stir in gently for around 2 minutes, let it cool to a temperature of between 72 to 76 deg C and take a sniff from the top of the pot to check the hot scent throw potential, I say between 72 and 76 deg C because that is quite often the melted wax pool temperature when a soy wax candle is burning but this is no guarantee that the hot scent will be the same once the candle has cured, it only gives you a rough indication of its potential. I then let the wax cool or reheat the wax to pouring temperature and pour slowly to minimize adding in to many air bubbles. Let the candle cure for a week and then burn it to check the hot scent throw, if the hot scent throw is weak or non-existent, I then wait another week and burn it again and keep doing this for an 8 week period. If I find that I really need a candle burning fix within a 24 hour period from creation, I usually make one 8 ounce tin and one glass container (with a similar opening size to the 8 ounce tin) from the same wax batch, let the glass container sit for a few weeks and burn the tin candle to get the “I have to burn it now “ sensation over with. If the hot scent throw from the tin is really disappointing or non-existent, I then let the tin candle sit for another week and then burn it again for a 3 -4 hour session and check the hot scent throw. I keep doing this for an 8 week period. If I still have an average hot scent throw by the end of the 8 week period, I then burn the glass container candle. If the glass container candle provides an average or substandard hot scent throw after an 8 week period, I place the fragrance in the “has to be tried with other waxes” bin or don’t persevere working with it. i also am in Australia and am pretty sure I bought my paraffin from the same place ..no name. I msg them enquiring its brand and it was a highly reputable one. So maybe e-mail them and they will tell you on the quiet! LOL I had an epiphany tonight also about fragrances. Write the flashpoint of your fragrance on your bottles and try to add to wax as close as you can. It made so much sense .. if you add the oil higher than its flashpoint , it will burn off. If you add it too low from the flashpoint , it will not bind! Now I know why one of my candles has literally zero throw! tomorrow cant come fast enough hehehe Did you find anything about CD wicks being the same as CDN? I have only seen CDN and HTP here , not much choice. Iy is doing my head in trying to wick the XL Danube jar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Flashpoint has zero to do with the temp you add to the molten wax. Flashpoint is the temperature at which the oil will combust if introduced to a spark or flame. Do do yourself a big favor and add the fragrance to the wax at the right temp for the wax. Too cool and the fragrance will not fully mix into the wax potentially leaving pockets of unblended fragrance or weeping fragrance which can easily flare making for a very dangerous candle. Ever see the surface of a candle catch fire because of seeping fragrance? I have. Not a fun sight. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justajesuschick Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 UGH. The giant Candle Maker's Group on Facebook (although the posts are mostly by newcomers who are just getting into wax making-but many speak with authority) REGULARLY has those who post this as if it is the absolute truth. I cannot say it enough. Flashpoint is NOT the temperature at which your scent will "burn off". Really. Truly. Find the temperature, as TallTayl has suggested that you get the best throw from your specific wax blend with oil added. An oil that is weak or has no throw may just be wrong for your wax blend and one you simply do not offer. They are not all winners in every wax blend. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFyre Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Lol @justajesuschick...you and I must be in some of the same candle groups on Facebook because I just posted a very similar comment to TallTayl's new post about flashpoint. I've seen people say the same thing about using the flashpoint as their guide for adding in FO. I don't doubt that some of them might have had some success, but I think it's probably more because the flashpoint temp might have coincidentally been a good temp for the FO to be combined with their wax choice and nothing to do with the flashpoint itself. Unfortunately, it then leads people to giving incorrect info about what a flashpoint actually is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justajesuschick Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 YES!! I could literally spend my days correcting, helping and replying to posts in one of the largest groups made up of about 11,000 people. I have a few oils with a flashpoint of 100 degrees. My wax is barely still liquid at 100 degrees. How on earth could I mix oil in then?? I have no idea why I am in that group. The things they post make me crazy. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I quit all of the FB candle groups I was in mainly and simply because of all the erroneous information about flashpoint. Seriously it is my biggest pet peeve. No, your scent is not going to "burn off", No your candle/fo bottle/etc., is not going to "explode", No, your FO is not going to just spontaneously catch fire if it goes 1 degree above the flashpoint. No matter how many articles you post proving your point, explaining what flashpoint actually is, trying to educate people, they just will not listen and will continue to argue it. I could only be a part of those types a groups for a coupe days before I would get so frustrated and just give up. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 I had to get off FB groups as well, drove me batty on a daily basis! And I agree J, they argue if you do try to give them some useful info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Me too! I unfollowed and unjoined all of them. I don't have it in me to spend time and energy on those who don't want to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On 5/18/2017 at 1:51 AM, TallTayl said: Flashpoint has zero to do with the temp you add to the molten wax. Flashpoint is the temperature at which the oil will combust if introduced to a spark or flame. Do do yourself a big favor and add the fragrance to the wax at the right temp for the wax. Too cool and the fragrance will not fully mix into the wax potentially leaving pockets of unblended fragrance or weeping fragrance which can easily flare making for a very dangerous candle. Ever see the surface of a candle catch fire because of seeping fragrance? I have. Not a fun sight. thanks again TT! you are my saviour on here LOL I get that about the flame .. as you can see, science is not my forte' in life ! Am loving this website so much ... it's so good tobe able to actually get a response from someone one has been there and done that. I have asked some of my candle wholesalers about their prdoucts and they dont have a clue. i bought some coconut wax and asked the lady what was it used for ... she said lots of people buy it to make nicer candles LOL!!! thanks again everyone on her for helping out the beginners like me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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