Lizardbutt Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Hi all.. I have been chandling now for about 3 years and am frustrated as hell pouring soy. I am using Gw 464 heating to 180-190 adding 1 gram solid dye and 1 liquid ounce of scent per 16 liquid ounces of hot wax. Pouring between 140-130 degrees in climate controlled steady 70 degree room and I'm am still getting tons of air? Bad frosting look on sides... especially with browns and reds.... trying to figure out how to post a photo... grrrr but. Until then first thoughts? ideas? Please!!!!!! im about to pull my hair out spending more time with my heat gun than any sane person should. What am I doing wrong? Where the crap can I post a pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) Use this to post a pic. It's the 7th Icon from the left, when you post. Can't help you with other issue. By the way, HI! Edited October 11, 2012 by ChandlerWicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizardbutt Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 ok thanks ...l here is the worst one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursenancy Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Have you tried pouring hotter? That is what I'd do next. The tops look great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrazeKelly Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I had better luck pouring at 120-125 but I eventually gave soy up for good except I blend it for tarts. It was a pain in the rear!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I use C3...I pour much cooler, around 115*, add USA, and temper the wax. I get great adhesion (no wet spots) and no frosting. I have tried 464 but did not try these steps with it. Most people that buy soy candles know that it has a frosted look to it. You could also not color them...in the right jar they look classy (check out jackbenimble's site). USA and tempering really helps the texture, tops, and aids in reducing frosting. There are some great threads on here about tempering if you're interested in trying that. hth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizardbutt Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 Lol... One of you says pour cooler, another says hotter.... *facepalm* I will try both but would love to understand what causes this? Perhaps stirring too much, aside from temp? Possible overload? Shall I just sell them as unique?! Lol... Sorry my sarcasm is me dealing with frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I pour cooler because I use C3 and its what works for me. The soy wax you are using is very prone to frosting and, imo, if you want them colored then embrace the frosting. This is a natural characteristic of pure soy waxes. If you want to eliminate the frosting then your best bet would be to try adding paraffin to it. Ive had good results adding 30%...but Ive chosen to stay with C3 and this does not need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizardbutt Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 I refuse to use paraffin... It makes my eyes water. What about GW 444? Would that help eliminate the frosting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursenancy Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I started out with C3 and got horrible results. Then I started using 444. I heat to 180, add FO and dye, then pour. I get very little frosting and great tops. i realize we're talking different waxes, but The frosting is occurring because the wax is pulling away from the jar as the candle cools, not excess air, IMO. You could try pouring it cooler, too. Maybe try cooler first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrazeKelly Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Frosting is not caused by the wax pulling away from the jars. That would be a "wet spot". Frosting looks like little snowflakes in the wax. There are lots of good posts regarding frosting on this board. If you will search for Frosting you should find some interesting info. Tempering and blending 464 does help but I still had frosting occur in 1 out of maybe 4 jars. I also heated my jars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I refuse to use paraffin... It makes my eyes water. What about GW 444? Would that help eliminate the frosting?Sometimes with 415, I'll use about 10% of 6006. It's just enough paraffin to smooth out the soy & reduce the frost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 What's facepalm? In the upper right-hand corner is a long white rectangle, that's the search box. There's alot of info & you'll be doing alot of reading, but it should give you most of the answers you need. Lol... One of you says pour cooler, another says hotter.... *facepalm* I will try both but would love to understand what causes this? Perhaps stirring too much, aside from temp? Possible overload? Shall I just sell them as unique?! Lol... Sorry my sarcasm is me dealing with frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbluedento Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I was so annoyed with frosting that I went on to use Ecosoya Xcel CB. The website info says the following: EcoSoya® CB-XceLtm is 100% soy and molecularly blueprinted to control polymorphism. It has extreme resistance to bloom (white frosting) and “wet spots,” while producing an excellent scent throw with fragrances. It maintains an even burn pool with consistent color retention. While I was at first skeptical, I have found this to be the case. I generally get no frosting or minimal frosting when I use this wax. It is a bit more expenisve than the wax I was using which was GW464. I refuse to use paraffin and so I was determined to find a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursenancy Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Frosting is not caused by the wax pulling away from the jars. That would be a "wet spot" . Point taken, but I was looking at her picture and IMO, that looks like an adhesion problem, although now that I'm looking again, maybe a combination of the two, because you can see frosting above and around the wet spot...I would still try cooler or hotter before additives. Edited October 12, 2012 by nursenancy examined pic again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Me too! Try testing both ways. . Point taken, but I was looking at her picture and IMO, that looks like an adhesion problem, although now that I'm looking again, maybe a combination of the two, because you can see frosting above and around the wet spot...I would still try cooler or hotter before additives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JI Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 464 and 444 are great waxes to work with. I know a chemist who said that without the use of additives frosting is impossible. I used to dye my candles and have the same issue. I couldn't sell some because they were so badly frosted. I stopped dying and now all my candles are a lovely ivory. They still frost, but you just can't really see it. Best thing I did. I didn't want to deal with adding/experimenting with additives. Wax is amorphous and as it expands/contracts it forms those crystals. It is the nature of the beast and worst with the pure soy waxes. I have never looked back on stopping dyes. If anything, customers have been more positive with dye free candles for me personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladysj Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I have found with the soy waxes I'm testing that pouring hotter works for me. Pouring cooler does not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJCandlesCrafts Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I was so annoyed with frosting that I went on to use Ecosoya Xcel CB. The website info says the following: EcoSoya® CB-XceLtm is 100% soy and molecularly blueprinted to control polymorphism. It has extreme resistance to bloom (white frosting) and “wet spots,” while producing an excellent scent throw with fragrances. It maintains an even burn pool with consistent color retention. While I was at first skeptical, I have found this to be the case. I generally get no frosting or minimal frosting when I use this wax. It is a bit more expenisve than the wax I was using which was GW464. I refuse to use paraffin and so I was determined to find a solution.When I re-started I looked around and found that my closest supplier (damned if I'm paying shipping for wax if I don't have to!) ONLY sells Eco-Soya. Couldn't find any good information on the Xcel outside of the manufacturer's statements, but gave it a try. Yes, it is more $$$, but MINIMAL frosting, and adhesion is great.I heat to about 155, pour into heated jars at about 135-140 and have had minimal issues (all I can explain away - drafty window left open, didn't wipe out my glass well enough... etc). When I do what I'm supposed to do, I'm loving the wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Wow, you're only heating to 155? That's good to know a low temp works with FOs. I need to test with lower temps to make sure I'm not burning off the FO.When I re-started I looked around and found that my closest supplier (damned if I'm paying shipping for wax if I don't have to!) ONLY sells Eco-Soya. Couldn't find any good information on the Xcel outside of the manufacturer's statements, but gave it a try. Yes, it is more $$$, but MINIMAL frosting, and adhesion is great.I heat to about 155, pour into heated jars at about 135-140 and have had minimal issues (all I can explain away - drafty window left open, didn't wipe out my glass well enough... etc). When I do what I'm supposed to do, I'm loving the wax. Edited October 12, 2012 by ChandlerWicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) You've been using this wax for three years and haven't had success with it or this is something that has recently started (like a bad batch of wax)? If you are interested, I use a parasoy blend from Clarus and get great results. HTHSteve Edited October 12, 2012 by chuck_35550 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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