Sources for base oils (what am I doing wrong?)

[GrinningGoblin]

Howdy folks, I'm new to the forum. Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but any search term that includes "oils" returns so many results I couldn't find it. I have been making soy candles for a while and have recently been looking at getting started with soaps. I have looked at both melt and pour and cold processed soaps, but cold process interests me the most from the control aspects of the recipes and the hobby / chemistry aspects of it.

One issue I am encountering, though, is sourcing base oils. I assumed that a cold process batch would be much cheaper than melt and pour, but using the bulk cases of melt and pour base (at brambleberry) as a measuring stick I haven't found that to be the case.

I am looking to begin with a basic olive oil, palm oil, coconut oil type base and the best value I have been able to locate has these oils going at about $.16 an ounce (including shipping). The funny thing is that ordering the 35 pound containers of these oils at brambleberry, even after hefty shipping, is still cheaper than what I can get olive oil at Walmart / Sam's club.

After spread sheeting the costs for these items along with the lye and some castor oil I am coming up with a cost per bar of nearly double the melt and pour cost before factoring in any additional colorants or additives. I know people tend to add more stuff to melt and pour than CP soaps, but I am still struggling to wrap my brain around this.

I guess what I am trying to say is I feel like I am doing something wrong and I haven't even started soaping yet. Where do you folks source your base oils?

[Misty]

Well, it depends on your location. Soaper's choice is in Ohio. Golden Barrel is in Pennsylvania. Those are two that I use.

[GrinningGoblin]

I am in Southeast Texas. I have been trying to locate a restaurant vendor locally who will sell to me, but haven't had luck so far. Shipping totals is what is killing the cost for me, but I haven't found a vendor in range that can beat it.

I plan on trying out a couple of test batches next week. If I like what I see and decide to move forward I want to have a source lined up to make it profitable.

I appreciate the Soaper's Choice link. Some good prices on some of the things, but overall cost is pretty similar to other places I have found online.

[Misty]

Camden Grey is in Florida. They carry a lot of oils and fragrance as well as other ingredients.

[se2653]

MMS is in Utah... I like their products and variety...

[TallTayl]

I use Soapers Choice out of Chicago primarily. Often I can find things at my local Restaurant Supply Depot too. Once you secure your sources, your bar costs should be far less than M&P.

[GrinningGoblin]

Thanks for the replies. I'm glad I'm not just stupid. Still hitting a wall but that is mostly due to shipping. I need to find a vendor locally that will deal with me without prohibitive minimum orders.

[JanetsCandles]

Wholesale Supplies Plus automatically figures in shipping but there is a $35 minimum order. It's a thought. Also, you may check with some of your restaurant supply places to see if you can get any that way. I'm just not sure what their minimums are going to be. The thing with the soaps is that you're not going to be able to sell immediately in the first place. You're going to have to test a lot first, just like with candles. I work with both CP and M&P, and I'm just now edging past my first "testing" phase into sales. CP for me is still in testing phase, although I think I've got a good setup. I'm going to be tweaking recipes again soon to see what I can come up with. That said, having huge amounts of the oils to do soaps in right now just isn't logical for me. Storage space is also at a cost for many of us (you have to figure it in, even if you're working at home because if you're using X amount of storage space for soaps and supplies, that's space you can't use for any other product you are already making, like candles in my case). You may be better off to see if you'd even want to do it first, then start sourcing cheaper supplies. At least then you'll know that you can get through the testing phase before having to commit to buying huge amounts of things.

[jeanie353]

Normally I don't buy much from WSP because of the high costs since they added shipping into the prices of the products. But I did find recently that they ended up being cheaper on some oils & butters because I didn't have to pay shipping. Just a thought for you.

I have not done CP yet but any day now will decide to whip up a basic batch. Have done quite a bit of M&P in the last several months. It did get very expensive for me as I began to tweak the soaps to get what I wanted out of a bar with additives. If one is going to use the M&P base straight up or just a few additives it might be cheaper...Not sure on that.

GL with your new venture

[lsg]

Have you tried Texas Natural?

http://www.texasnaturalsupply.com/

[Candybee]

Well, it depends on your location. Soaper's choice is in Ohio. Golden Barrel is in Pennsylvania. Those are two that I use.

They are fairly close to me as far as suppliers go and I didn't know about them til now! So thanks for the tidbit!

[kidsngarden]

Check for a cash and carry near you. I got a gallon of pomace olive oil there for about a buck cheaper than BB's gallon. Sometimes with OO what you are getting killed on is not being able to find pomace, which is what you really want to soap with not virgin or extra virgin - the more expensive kinds!

I find BB prices to not be too far off the mark if you buy in bulk, but they are local to me so I pick up. one thing that can really kill ya is LYE. I get mine by the 50 pound bag from a local chemical supply and save TONS. Check around for a chemical supply or pool supply. I get my citric for bath bombs there too, but it is only about $13 less than BB's 50 pound bag.

[GrinningGoblin]

The thing with the soaps is that you're not going to be able to sell immediately in the first place. You're going to have to test a lot first, just like with candles. I work with both CP and M&P, and I'm just now edging past my first "testing" phase into sales. CP for me is still in testing phase, although I think I've got a good setup. I'm going to be tweaking recipes again soon to see what I can come up with. That said, having huge amounts of the oils to do soaps in right now just isn't logical for me. Storage space is also at a cost for many of us (you have to figure it in, even if you're working at home because if you're using X amount of storage space for soaps and supplies, that's space you can't use for any other product you are already making, like candles in my case). You may be better off to see if you'd even want to do it first, then start sourcing cheaper supplies. At least then you'll know that you can get through the testing phase before having to commit to buying huge amounts of things.

Oh, I'm not planning on buying 100 pounds of oil tomorrow or anything. I guess it's a holdover from my day job, but when I am looking into these sorts of things I just don't feel right unless I start plugging stuff into a spreadsheet. I am interested in CP soaps and looking at the viability of adding them to my candles long term. I just never like to jump into something without a plan

That being said I appreciate the folks contributing to the thread, if I end up liking it and decide to make a go of it full time somewhere down the road I may have found an avenue to lower costs. A friend of mine's dad runs a butcher shop, and they get orders from sysco. If I pay up front he told me that he doesn't mind if I piggy back some things on his orders. That's a deal since I don't have to worry about shipping or minimum orders.

I actually haven't had a lot of trouble finding cheap lye. I have read that in some places it is hard to come by these days. I was disappointed with texas natural. They are the closest supplier to me that I could find (though still outside of comfortable driving range, Texas is a big state ) but they were over triple the cost for some of the base oils than other suppliers.

Edited April 29, 2012 by GrinningGoblin

[coconut]

Oh, I'm not planning on buying 100 pounds of oil tomorrow or anything. I guess it's a holdover from my day job, but when I am looking into these sorts of things I just don't feel right unless I start plugging stuff into a spreadsheet. I am interested in CP soaps and looking at the viability of adding them to my candles long term. I just never like to jump into something without a plan

That being said I appreciate the folks contributing to the thread, if I end up liking it and decide to make a go of it full time somewhere down the road I may have found an avenue to lower costs. A friend of mine's dad runs a butcher shop, and they get orders from sysco. If I pay up front he told me that he doesn't mind if I piggy back some things on his orders. That's a deal since I don't have to worry about shipping or minimum orders.

I actually haven't had a lot of trouble finding cheap lye. I have read that in some places it is hard to come by these days. I was disappointed with texas natural. They are the closest supplier to me that I could find (though still outside of comfortable driving range, Texas is a big state ) but they were over triple the cost for some of the base oils than other suppliers.

If you are not opposed to animal fat in your soap, you could probably get the fat from your friend's dad at a good price but you might need to specify that it is not rancid.

[GrinningGoblin]

I'm not above using animal fat, but I am not sure I am ready to start messing with rendering my own. That said, for my first batches I do plan on using lard. I can get it from him for less than a buck a pound.