Selling Bath & Body Products (non-soap)

[Beth]

Hoping someone can dumb this down for me.. there is so much conflicting information everywhere & I can't make heads or tails of the FDA stuff.

*Preservatives- Some say "if you sell, you have to use a preservative". Others (even suppliers) say "if your products are anhydrous, you don't have to use them." Some cite the FDA as requiring a preservative, although I can't find those exact words & there are big name products out there without preservatives. Can someone explain?

*Medical vs Cosmetic- If I'm reading the FDA correctly, we cannot make any medical claims on our products, only claims such as "softening", "moisturizing", etc. However, I see many, many websites which sell "eczema lotion" or "acne gel" or "sore muscle rub", etc. ??

As far as sterilizing containers.. what is the best way to do this? Again, I've read different methods that contradict each other.

Thank you in advance!

[LovelyLathers]

If the product is made with water or comes in contact with water (scrubs) it must contain a preservative! When listed on the label it must contain the INCI names.. Maybe that is why you do not see the preservative listed. It will not be under the common brand name. As far as using a perseravtive it is our resposablity to make a safe product for our customer and the only way to do that is to use the correct one according to the product we make and what works best for our formula.

Medical claims can not be made, We have no control on what others put on labels or websites but it is Our responsibility to to follow FDA Laws! Products that do make claims have to be tested and approved for what we claim by the FDA.

Here are some links that may help you out

http://candleandsoap.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=candleandsoap&cdn=homegarden&tm=23&f=21&su=p284.13.342.ip_p504.6.342.ip_&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/ProductandIngredientSafety/ProductInformation/ucm115449.htm

http://candleandsoap.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=candleandsoap&cdn=homegarden&tm=951&f=21&su=p284.13.342.ip_p504.6.342.ip_&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/ucm074201.htm

[Beth]

But how about national level brands & preservatives? I think the mystery ingredients (to me) in this list are emulsifiers.

"Vegetable Glycerin, Olive Oil, Oat Flour, Lecithin, Sucrose Stearate, Sucrose Distearate, Magnesium Stearate, Coconut Oil, Oat Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Peppermint Oil, Rosemary Leaf Oil, Fragrance."

Ok, off to read your links. Thanks!

[Beth]

OT- OK, I'm on the FDA site reading the weekly recalls...... it is unbelievable the things that are recalled! Corneas! Plasma & blood, defibrillators... wow.

[TallTayl]

A number of preservatives have an INCI of "Fragrance". You can bet that the market leaders use preservatives (minus the brands like L*sh who boast they use no preservatives, advising to just scrape the moldy parts off before use).

I highly recommend preservatives in anhydrous products as well as hydrous. Scrubs are a good example.

I also recommend following basic GMP and lotion making principles even with anhydrous stressing a full heat and hold for 20 minutes. Without a lab nobody can know what % of water is in a given oil/butter. Nor can we ascertain the level of microbial and bacterial activity within a raw ingredient. For those who claim pathogens can't grow in oils or butters, I HAVE seen mold in raw butters and anhydrous ingredients. It's not pretty.

As far as using/not using words that classify our products as cosmetic, there will be rules followers and rule breakers every where. They don't pay my fines. I don't pay theirs. It's all well and good, until you're turned in and are under the microscope.

[Beth]

Thank you, TallTayl. I didn't know about the "fragrance" INCI.

Are there home kits to test our own products that are 1. reliable & 2. affordable?

What is the best method of "sterilizing" the containers?

[iansmommaya]

for the home crafter you cannot sterilize. without an autoclave or other equipment it just isn't possible. however you can keep you equipment very clean, and as soon as you open the bag of say lotion tubes, transfer them into a large baggie that seals that is to say if they do not come in a re-sealable bag

and keep in mind that companies lie. (see fragrance listed instead of preservative.)

Edited March 22, 2012 by iansmommaya

[Beth]

for the home crafter you cannot sterilize. without an autoclave or other equipment it just isn't possible. however you can keep you equipment very clean, and as soon as you open the bag of say lotion tubes, transfer them into a large baggie that seals that is to say if they do not come in a re-sealable bag

and keep in mind that companies lie. (see fragrance listed instead of preservative.)

Ok, instead of "sterilize", what about cleaning in general? Some containers arrive dusty & not-so-clean. Does everyone do a full-on hot water & soap cleaning? or bleach? I just want to do things the best way, so as to avoid any issues down the road.

[soapbuddy]

If your containers arrive dusty, I would switch to another seller. That's a big contamination issue. I sanitize all my bowls, pitchers, utensils and counters with mild bleach solution. I also spritz with alcohol.

[Beth]

If your containers arrive dusty, I would switch to another seller. That's a big contamination issue. I sanitize all my bowls, pitchers, utensils and counters with mild bleach solution. I also spritz with alcohol.

That's another question I forgot to ask. I've seen people post about spraying with alcohol. But what kind of alcohol?

[singleyellowrose]

What I do when making any type of product:

Wash all items needed in hot soapy water.

Then i put them in a sink with hot water & bleach.

Air dry.

Then I spray each container and lid with 91% alcohol. Put lid on jar or bottle.

Shake vigorously. Pour alcohol out and do it again with the next one.

Set on paper towels upside down and let them air dry.

Once air dried I cap them so they don't get dusty inside until I am ready to use them.

Same goes for any/all utensils I use to make a batch of whatever I am making.

HTH

Edited March 23, 2012 by singleyellowrose

[iansmommaya]

That's another question I forgot to ask. I've seen people post about spraying with alcohol. But what kind of alcohol?

your containers should not arrive dusty at all. switch suppliers. there are so many suppliers of containers out there (sks, csp, etc.) that the quality should be excellent. when people are talking about alcohol in this way them mean rubbing or denatured alcohol. not vodka or brandy.

i can't find the smilies but here is a try :hug:

[Beth]

your containers should not arrive dusty at all. switch suppliers. there are so many suppliers of containers out there (sks, csp, etc.) that the quality should be excellent. when people are talking about alcohol in this way them mean rubbing or denatured alcohol. not vodka or brandy.

i can't find the smilies but here is a try :hug:

lol..... that much I have figured out!

Does it matter, then, which alcohol? 91% iso or denatured or ?

[iansmommaya]

use the iso. that is what is used for cleaning.

[Beth]

use the iso. that is what is used for cleaning.

cool. I grabbed a bottle of 91% the other day. Thank you!!

[Flicker]

Lush most certainly does use preservatives. I've bought a lot from there over the years. Here are a few of their ingredients lists:

Shower Gel: It's Raining Men

Honey (Mel) , Rosehip , Lotus Flower and Tiger Lily Infusion (Rosa canina, Nelumbo nucifera and Lilium tigrinum) , Sodium Laureth Sulfate , Sodium Cocoamphoacetate , Water (Aqua) , Perfume , Propylene Glycol , Sweet Wild Orange Oil (Citrus Dulcis) , Bergamot Oil (Citrus Aurantium bergamia) , Titanium Dioxide , *Limonene , *Linalool , Benzyl Benzoate , Methylparaben

Methylparaben is the preservative in this

Body Lotion:

Crème Anglaise

Almond Oil (Prunus dulcis) , Saffron Infusion (Crocus sativis) , Extra Virgin Coconut Oil (Cocos nucifera) , Cocoa Butter (Theobroma cacao) , Shea Butter (Butyrospermum parkii) , Glycerine , Stearic Acid , Vanilla Absolute (Vanilla planifolia) , Myrrh Resinoid (Commiphora myrrha) , Sweet Orange Oil (Citrus sinensis) , Triethanolamine , Perfume , Cetearyl Alcohol , Benzyl Salicylate , Coumarin , *Eugenol , *Limonene , *Linalool , Methylparaben , Propylparaben

Methylparaben and Propylparaben are the two in this lotion

This is info right from their site.

[TallTayl]

@Flicker - if that is in response to my post, they have plenty of creams and facial products that boast they are preservative free and must be kept refrigerated. Plenty of people, myself included, have noted the layer of mold that forms very quickly on those preparations.

[Flicker]

Show me specifically what cream. All their stuff I've seen has plenty of preservation. Parabens are some of the worst. Theirs are loaded with them. They may have sold some years ago but I've been in tons of lush stores and never noticed a fridge. Basin on the other hand. Yes they have them and their product isn't preserved enough if at all but Lush has proper preservation in every face cream I read

[Beth]

I actually looked at the Lush website the other day & it says:

"In designing our products, we go for natural ingredients and use as few synthetics as possible. In fact, we have an incredible range of natural products with no synthetics at all. Over 70% of our range is totally unpreserved and we aim to improve on that."

[TallTayl]

Visit the store in Schaumburg, IL (in the famous Woodfield Mall). Big old glass door refrigerator right on the sales counter next to the register. The ladies flock there to get their fresh, preservative free lotions. The sales people who give the "Full Tour" make it a point to stop there. I've taken the tour.

The stuff on the shelf is, from the few ingredients lists I've read, preserved.

I won't get into the paraben discussion with you. You eat more parabens in fresh fruits and vegetables than you probably ever care to count.

[TallTayl]

I actually looked at the Lush website the other day & it says:

"In designing our products, we go for natural ingredients and use as few synthetics as possible. In fact, we have an incredible range of natural products with no synthetics at all. Over 70% of our range is totally unpreserved and we aim to improve on that."

Bingo! This is what the teens and young adult sales people have been trained to tell people. It's part of the current marketing trend used by manufacturers that people are flocking to.

[Flicker]

Then they have something far different than the ones I have been to. None of those have had such a thing. They also don't sell them online.

I eat all organics, so I guarantee you that isn't true. I've been working on the inside of the personal care and candle industry for about 11 years and as a candle and soap maker for about 15. I am fairly certain I know enough about chemicals.

[TallTayl]

Organic or not, if you eat fruits and vegetables such as strawberries, mango, onion, vanilla, carrots, olives, cucumbers, cress, or grains such as barley, then you eat parabens. Period.

Plants produce NATURAL parabens as defense mechanisms against miro-organisms.

The food and beauty industries took the clue and started manufacturing them because they are so good at preserving against far more dangerous pathogens. I've had this discussion at length with members of the Society of Cosmetic Chemists who head the major corporations that supply us with not only finished goods but also raw materials with which we make our own.

If you eat prepared bakery goods, including pie crusts, then chances are you've ingested parabens. A minute amount of a preservative is far less dangerous than the spread of food borne illness.

Have you ever read the manufacturing sheets for anything liquid you use to make your product? Loaded with preservatives otherwise your liquids would sprout some pretty interesting things. some of those preservatives are parabens.

[CareBear]

There's no law that products must contain a preservative. However it is the law that your product must be safe.

[CareBear]

I actually looked at the Lush website the other day & it says:

"In designing our products, we go for natural ingredients and use as few synthetics as possible. In fact, we have an incredible range of natural products with no synthetics at all. Over 70% of our range is totally unpreserved and we aim to improve on that."

Over 70% of their products are anhydrous. Bath bombs, solid lotions, lip balms, perfumes, powders, bath melts...