lsbennis Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ok, I'm not trying to stir anything up and this may have already been posted on here but I wanted to share how all negative and false marketing CAN and does affect other companies. :undecidedhttp://www.alohabay.com/people/why_no_soy_candles.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansmommaya Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Thanks for the info - it's good to see the other side of the story.Personally, I avoid soy products (for consumption) because soy is high in Vit K and it counteracts the blood thinner that DH has to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb426 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I thought the forum doesn't allow hotlinking without permission of the owner. I was going to bring that up in the other thread but figured it would get lost in the upheaval. Edited January 19, 2012 by deb426 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefmom Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Whoever has the biggest pile of money seems to get heard the most. Don't you just love politics??Tami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefmom Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) And to confuse us even more:http://www.candlescience.com/learning/the-problem-with-palm-wax.phpIt goes to show you that we will never know which is right or wrong, It's so confusing!I guess the only answer is when we all run out of oil on this planet we will have to keep bees and raise a LOT of bayberry bushes.Tami .......does anyone know how to process lard/tallow to make into candles? Edited January 19, 2012 by Chefmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsbennis Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 I thought the forum doesn't allow hotlinking without permission of the owner. I was going to bring that up in the other thread but figured it would get lost in the upheaval.What is "hotlinking"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb426 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I thought it was direct linking to a website but now I think I'm wrong. That would be a hyperlink. I think hotlinking would be if someone just linked to an image and not to the whole website. So I guess it doesn't apply. Nevermind. Edited January 19, 2012 by deb426 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsbennis Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 And to confuse us even more:http://www.candlescience.com/learning/the-problem-with-palm-wax.phpIt goes to show you that we will never know which is right or wrong, It's so confusing!I guess the only answer is when we all run out of oil on this planet we will have to keep bees and raise a LOT of bayberry bushes.Tami .......does anyone know how to process lard/tallow to make into candles?So true, but I guess my reason for posting was based on another thread I was reading about how negative wax bashing does affect all of us in the long run regardless of our wax of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefmom Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I was reading about how negative wax bashing does affect all of us in the long run regardless of our wax of choice.So true.....In my "real" life I am a Professional Chef/Baker. I run into people all the time that swear that one ingredient is going to kill us all, not because it is, but because they just read two lines somewhere about the evils of eggs or butter or something else. I had a cake customer DEMAND to see my feed sack label to PROVE that my chickens are NOT fed meat-by-products. I didn't have the heart to tell her that my chickens have free range through the gardens (not in growing season) and fields and they love to find frogs, worms, snakes etc. If I read something that states "X" is evil and should be banned I usually do more reading etc to see why. In my life with food I have learned plenty about commercial agriculture etc, and soy wax usage ties in with that. I just don't know what a good answer would be to someone who thinks paraffin is evil, or palm is evil or "natural" wicks MUST be used. It's really confusing out there. Cotton is natural but it too has it's issues with the environment with high pesticide usage, and GM issues etc. Then the cotton is processed with chemicals before it can be a wick, so that is added.I'm pretty well versed with my food customers, and even with my soap customers, but I'm trying to learn as much as I can when I am confronted with these issues with future candle customers. I can't see ANYTHING as being the perfect answer.Tami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisper Girl Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 We pour in two mediums - palm and paraffin. I keep copies of the National Candle Assoc. Statement about the safety of the different waxes with me at shows. If I have a customer who asks questions about palm and paraffin vs soy, I explain and also give them the information sheet. If they want to argue, I will give them the name of a friend who sells soy or simply explain that my candles are not for them and not sell them my products. You are right Tami, there is no perfect answer. I have plenty of customers who love my products and I have a great reputation for my products and customer service. Life is short. You can't please everyone and some people just will not take the time to do the research to find out for themselves. It is not the wax, it is the composition that makes a great candle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefmom Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have a great reputation for my products and customer service. Life is short. You can't please everyone and some people just will not take the time to do the research to find out for themselves. It is not the wax, it is the composition that makes a great candle!Very well said!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ok, I'm not trying to stir anything up and this may have already been posted on here but I wanted to share how all negative and false marketing CAN and does affect other companies. :undecidedhttp://www.alohabay.com/people/why_no_soy_candles.html:highfive: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaftCandles Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 It's nice too see that someone from the other side has taken a stance and is providing good and non-slanderous information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitn Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 :highfive: that was an interesting read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Agree, lolthat was an interesting read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in KY Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'm not going to read it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Ok, I'm not trying to stir anything up and this may have already been posted on here but I wanted to share how all negative and false marketing CAN and does affect other companies. :undecidedhttp://www.alohabay.com/people/why_no_soy_candles.html*super banana*:whoohoo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaftCandles Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm not going to read it...That’s a shame! Most people read to learn and by reading that information you would have learned a different perspective of Vegie vs. Vegie as opposed to the “Great Soy vs. Paraffin Debate” and the effects of negative PR campaigns on everyone. Just because someone reads something that they don’t agree with doesn’t mean they have to believe what was written. Sometimes what appears to be redundant information is actually very informative and often offers facts or incite from different resources that can be helpful or eye opening, even if they feel like it’s beating a dead horse!I must say these people have done their homework and their site and provided information are congruent with FTC regulations unlike a site we were discussing recently in another thread. A lot of good information with the resources to back it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Talk about spin! First and foremost soy is the least expensive wax out there. I cannot find any palm or paraffin that is less expensive than $1 per pound... second they must have some magical palm wax because there is no palm wax out there that is sustainable. Palm is incredibly bad for the environment and the statement that was put forth that they only buy palm from farms that switched over to palm is bull. This would mean that there is some secondary hippy run palm industry that repurposed land for palm production only and this is just not how palm works... and the problem about palm is more about the monoculture and destruction of endangered species who wonder onto the plantations than it is about carbon or anything, I mean palm is pretty good at storing carbon and if it could be truly sustainably grown I would consider it. I've liked how palm burns but can't get past the ecological impact.I also live in an area surrounded by farms... SOY farms, and I know a lot of the FAMILIES who run the farms personally. No they don't like Monsanto but it isn't because of GMOs it is because they own the patent to them. GMO soy is safe, its been proven over and over again and we've all eaten it in one way or another. Nearly all soy products are GMOs.I disagree with almost all of you... they didn't vet their information they only used the information that supports their position. No different than the soy candle makers that you guys seem to hate, or the paraffin candle makers that claim their product is sustainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisper Girl Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 001 - I agree with you, if you cannot get past what you feel are ecological impacts created by palm, then you are right in not using it. There are no right or wrong answers here. We each have to look at the information that we can find, digest it, and decide for ourselves what wax we want to use. Our candles are each made individually with the time, effort and love that we each put into them. There is room out there for candles of all types. Consumers are the ones who buy - some like paraffin, some like soy, and some like palm. Let us all just make the best candles that we can each make. Let us continue to use this forum to share our ideas and knowledge so our craft continues to grow and prosper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) 001 - I agree with you, if you cannot get past what you feel are ecological impacts created by palm, then you are right in not using it. There are no right or wrong answers here. We each have to look at the information that we can find, digest it, and decide for ourselves what wax we want to use. Our candles are each made individually with the time, effort and love that we each put into them. There is room out there for candles of all types. Consumers are the ones who buy - some like paraffin, some like soy, and some like palm. Let us all just make the best candles that we can each make. Let us continue to use this forum to share our ideas and knowledge so our craft continues to grow and prosper.Okay, so all the waxes are equally bad, at least we're not using whale oil.And what about the rights of bees? Maybe bees don't like having their hives ransacked for wax. I'm sure it's very traumatic for them, and perhaps even deadly!!! Did you know there's a national bee shortage? It's supposed to be having a devastating effect on the eco system! Edited January 20, 2012 by HorsescentS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaftCandles Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 People seem to forget that most of the cities and farm land here in the U.S. was once forest and was cleared for the same reasons that forest are still being cut down in other countries today (Timber & Agriculture). It’s pretty arrogant of us to condemn others for something that we have already done and had to put laws in place to prevent continued destruction. I do not in any way condone deforestation but it will continue to happen until the laws in other countries are enforced to prevent it and whether or not you, here in the U.S. buy Palm Wax will not have an impact on the Global Palm Oil production. Palm Oil like Soy and other Vegetable Oils are primarily produced for use in food products and lubricants, wax represents a very small percentage of oil consumption. That is the same thought people have about supporting Foreign Oil Companies by buying Paraffin Wax and supporting American Farmers by buying Soy Wax, that’s just absurd! I wonder if the Palm Boycotters know that when they eat movie or microwaveable popcorn that it is cooked with PALM OIL? The best thing to do is to make your candles using whatever kind of wax you want and stop worrying about remedial things that you have no impact on one way or the other and stop bad mouthing others wax choices to make yours look better.Sustainable, Capable of being continued with minimal long-term effect on the environment: sustainable agriculture. Capable of being maintained at a steady level without exhausting natural resources or causing severe ecological damage.Palm oil, coconut oil and palm kernel oil are edible plant oils derived from the fruits of palm trees. Palm oil is extracted from the pulp of the fruit of the oil palm; palm kernel oil is derived from the kernel (seed) of the oil palm and coconut oil is derived from the kernel of the coconut.By definition, Palm Oil is sustainable in fact more so than Soybean Oil. Palm fruit can be harvested twice annually (from the same tree) in tropical climates whereas soybeans must be replanted every year.Renewable, capable of being replaced by natural ecological cycles or sound management practices.I don’t think anyone said Paraffin is sustainable but it is renewable, undeniable! “According to a report by World Growth entitled Palm Oil – The Sustainable Oil, palm oil uses less land than crop-based oilseeds.” “Only 0.26ha is required to produce a tonne of palm oil while soybean, sunflower and rape seed need 2.2ha, 2ha and 1.5ha respectively to produce the same amount of oil,” . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy, USMC Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 ha is short for Hectare. For those of us not familiar with that type of measurement I found the conversion:1 hectare = 2.47105381 acresUsing those factors soybeans require almost 5 1/2 acres to produce a ton of oil Palm only needs about 7/10 of one acre. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaftCandles Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 ha is short for Hectare. For those of us not familiar with that type of measurement I found the conversion:1 hectare = 2.47105381 acresUsing those factors soybeans require almost 5 1/2 acres to produce a ton of oil Palm only needs about 7/10 of one acre. Interesting. Sorry about that Judy, I travel a lot Internationaly so I guess I've gotten used to their units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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