lmc Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I use C3 and just starting testing USA w/it. Im using 13oz of wax, 1 weighed oz of fo, 1tsp CO, and now adding 1/2 tbs USA...melt to 185 w/co & usa, temper, remelt to 185, add dye chip then fo stir 2 minutes then pour at 130. Every batch (2-3 16oz jars) turns out well EXCEPT 1 candle wii be seeping fo-enough to cover the topmof candle:shocked2: This has happened with all 3 batches..each batch I was using fo from 3 different suppliers...wth...suggestions please!! TIA...This never happened to me before-not until I started using usa... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb426 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Do you stir again just before pouring? I pour C3 hotter, at 165. Maybe your FO is settling while the wax cools and the last jar you pour is too concentrated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Ive been using C3 for awhile now and never had problems pouring at 100-130. Yes, I continually stir up until pouring. For me, pouring that hot does not yield good results lol....do you think its the usa? Is there anything I can do to salvage the candles that have the seepage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb426 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I've never used USA so I can't help you there. Maybe melt those candles down for tarts to salvage the wax and the FO. I wouldn't sell them the way you are describing it. Sounds dangerous. Was it just drops on top or an actual pool of FO. If it was just some drops on top, could it be humidity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 I dont make tarts yet...still working on perfecting formula for jars lol...its an actual pool of fo...whats weird is that only 1 of the 2-3 candles per batch has it and yet all 3 batches had one with major seepage and others are fine never happened till I started using usa but I would think that it would help RETAIN fo...ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I made a batch of... don't remember which wax,lol... but I used CO & USA both and it turned out a nasty mess. Made notes on that batch to use one or the other, but not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I don't know where you live, lmc, but it's cold here (and fixin' to get a lot colder!). In the absence of a high FO load, syneresis happens when newly poured wax cools (generally overnight) in a room that's too cool or drafty. It can also happen when the weather becomes too warm. I seldom see any syneresis after the wax has hardened off for a week or so. The newly formed crystals take days to fully grow and harden. While the wax is still new, it's more "tender" and subject to this phenomenon. This happens to all the soy waxes I have used, with or without USA. I've never experienced it with palm wax, which I attribute to the hardness of the wax. Sometimes, you may see just a few beads of "sweat;" other times, in more extreme conditions, you may see the top covered. You can blot it off if you like, but most of the time, it will go back from whence it came over a period of days. I never have this problem when the room temp is kept reasonably warm for the first several days after pouring. I have noticed that if I am test burning a candle in a cool room (or the candle was stored in a cool room and lit in a warmer one) soon after pouring (5 days for me), I will sometimes see really tiny droplets near the wick. This disappears after a few moments. Obviously, I would not light a candle with a pool on top - I'd either blot it or wait for a few more days to see if it will go back into the wax. You can always remelt the candles or just the tops.Like Deb, I pour C3 at 165°F, so that may make a difference, particularly in the wintertime. I haven't seen this in years, but then again, I've been pouring hot for years now and seldom ever pour cool. I stir gently but continuously after adding the melted wax to the pour pot with the FO & dye in it. I stir right up to the point that I actually begin pouring the candle.USA is distilled monoglycerides (emulsifier). NatureWax C3 is "Hydrogenated Vegetable Glycerides with Alpha - monoglycerides (emulsifier) and Sorbitan Tristearate (emulsifier). Citric Acid added to preserve freshness." USA doesn't "hold the FO in" any more than the wax does - it is used to help smooth the texture and encourage the correct crystal phase to form, diminishing frosting. It has next to nothing to do with FO... HTH :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thanks for the info and help...Stella, I live out in Phoenix so the weather is usually pretty mild this time of year-sunny and upper 60's : ) and my home is kept at 72. But I will wait a few days and see if the fo absorbs back in. I wonder if this may make the end of the candle less fragrant considering the fo is sitting at the top . It's just strange that its only happening to 1 candle out of every 3 per batch, and yet each batch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I live out in Phoenix so the weather is usually pretty mild this time of year-sunny and upper 60's : )...It's just strange that its only happening to 1 candle out of every 3 per batch, and yet each batch..Elementary, my Dear Watson - because YOU are having balmy temps and many of the rest of us are NOT, your karma is catching up with you and Mr. Murphy is paying you a mid-winter visit. THAT'LL teach you to try a new wax!!! :laugh2:Sorry, I couldn't help myself... Try pouring hotter and stirring more after you add the FO - it really does seem to help although I'm hard pressed to explain why... I wonder if this may make the end of the candle less fragrant considering the fo is sitting at the topThat's a worthy question and I will be looking forward to what you find - I don't remember it having an appreciable effect. I am not sure that what you are seeing is 100% FO - it may be some of the candle wax that has come out of solution and mixed in with it. Candles WILL sweat even with no FO sometimes... Have you touched it and given it the sniff test to see if the oil is a potent as the FO?Please keep us updated!! :smiley2: Edited January 13, 2012 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Wemay enjoy balmy temps now-but oh how short lived :mad:3 months of paradise and 9 months of #%*#! Ill try burning that in 2-3 weeks and see what happens...oh and yes, the oil on top was strong ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoalaGirl Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 FWIW Here is my experience with seeping FO. Keeping in mind that a slow cool is better for adhesion, I had a flash of genius {or so I thought} to put my jars on a raised cooling rack under a styro box. I then put a hot water bottle {filled with boiling water} under the cooling rack. The tops came out the smoothest they had ever been! I was so proud of myself for being so clever. However, the next morning, the wheels had fallen off my new found genius status, when I saw that the tops were completely covered with FO. Seriously covered across the whole top and and a couple of millimetres deep!My thoughts: Did the heat at the bottom of the jar {nearest the water bottle} cause the FO to rise up to the top of the jars? I thought that FO would sink.At least I now know that seepage and cooling method/temps are related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thx...Back to testing...given me some ideas on where to start AGAIN lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Just for giggles, what FO are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I found this on the CandleWic website. I'm having the same issue, even with lower FO%'s.When I pour my soy wax I get a crusting on top of my candle or it looks like my color bleeds why is this happening?Soy has many positive attributes but one thing that it is not quite as effective at is holding fragrance. In most instances when this occurs you have put more fragrance in the wax then it can hold. The bleeding is actually the fragrance oil bleeding which pulls the color with it.There are several things you can do to try and correct this:Pouring at a lower temperature can capture the fragrance in the wax before it has time to bleed out.Use an additive to help hold the fragrance in the wax Palm Stearic (all natural) at 10-20% depending on how much fragrance you want to add.The least popular is try reducing the fragrance load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 ChandlerWicks...thank you! The only other variable other than the usa being added was that I tried pouring at 130 instead of the usual 115*...I do pour C3 much cooler than most but usually works for meStella, I used Peaks Lemon Pound Cake and Mango Peach Salsa, and Just Scents Cinnabon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Just keep in mind that palm stearic also has a couple of side effects, it can lock up the fragrance if too much is used and you could lose some scent throw, and it also hardens wax so too much and it may cause the wax to pull away from the sides of the jar or the candle to rattle in the jar. Best to start out with a low % and test to see how much you need in your candle combo. Edited January 13, 2012 by Candybee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thanks Candybee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 If I'm understanding this: one candle out of each separate batch had FO seepage...My guess would be that the one candle was the last poured out of each respective batch and unincorporated FO settled in the pot. (Not familiar with your wax but does a full oz of FO incorporate well in 13oz of wax or is it a little to much?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ive never had a ptoblem before using 1 oz fo to 13 oz of wax...Ill be experimenting more this week and will post if I find cause or solution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Maybe try to replicate the batches, but eliminate either the USA or the CO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yeah, I was doing fine with just co...shouldve left it alone lol...just got a new case in today so I'll definetly try usa alone w/o the co and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) (Not familiar with your wax but does a full oz of FO incorporate well in 13oz of wax or is it a little to much?) Thanks, Pam, for that observation. I think you are on-target there. I reread the thread because I missed the extra FO being used and the CO. Leave the CO out. It does nothing to help the polymorphic issues of C3, it does not enhance HT, so all you did was add extra oil to the wax. The amount of FO you used (7.1%) was already more than what is recommended for C3 (6% or less), so it follows that your candle may be seeping because you have simply added too much extra oil to the wax. Try 1 Tbsp of USA PP (.5 oz.) and 1 oz. of FO PP (5.71%). PP means to add that amount to a pound of wax. You will end up with 17.5 oz. of wax. Edited January 13, 2012 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Like I said earlier, I have no experience with this wax but it stands to reason that when one has puddles of FO, it did not incorporate for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Thank you both...Excluding the CO will be first on my list to test. I was happy with the candles with the co-love how they look after a burn compared to without it. I'll test to see how the usa makes it look and behave and see which additive I think works best.I did discover one important factor tho-C3 looks MUCH nicer when tempered. This is one step I wont skip even if it is time consuming :rolleyes2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Update...So Ive made 3 more batches with some much appreciated guidance (thx Stella!), and found by eliminating the CO and using just USA, prewarming fo (big difference), and cooling slower, I now have decent tops (work in progress) and NO FO SEEPAGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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