Stella1952 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 There are some old threads that may help new folks that are hard to locate these days...This one is about tempering GW 464http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?18739-GW-464-Test-Results-Thread&p=197532#post197532Here's an old one about tempering in general, using chocolate (another polymorphic veggie oil) as an example for understanding the process and what it's all about.http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?61303-More-about-Tempering&highlight=temperingHappy Homework! :smiley2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 What?! You're not going to feed the answers?!Just kidding, Stella, just kidding. Now, the title of this thread got me thinking about the frosting..... brilliant! You know how some slicks out there sell candles sprouting great mushrooms as "Scent mushroom", making it sound like it's a good thing (of course it is :rolleyes2)? Perhaps it is time for us (well, for chandlers who have issues with frosting) to sell our less-then-perfect-looking candles as "Frosted Candles".... now, why didn't we think of this sooner? That's it folks, the frosting is a plus! No mo' headaches!there are some old threads that may help new folks that are hard to locate these days...This one is about tempering gw 464http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?18739-gw-464-test-results-thread&p=197532#post197532here's an old one about tempering in general, using chocolate (another polymorphic veggie oil) as an example for understanding the process and what it's all about.http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?61303-more-about-tempering&highlight=temperinghappy homework! :smiley2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Perhaps it is time for us (well, for chandlers who have issues with frosting) to sell our less-then-perfect-looking candles as "Frosted Candles".... now, why didn't we think of this sooner?I have seen the light and now I'm "embracing" the "nature of soy." Thinking up new names for crystal phases as we speak...And they LAUGHED at chia pets and pet rocks... :laugh2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Thanks Stella for the links...in regards to tempering w/ the 464-will those temps work w/ theC3? Seems the melt temp and add fo temp is to low Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 The tempering information from that thread were given by Jason for GW464 right after it was introduced to the market. My purpose in reporting the information in those links was to POINT people in a direction. The values given are a place to start fo folks using this wax. The mileage of others may differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Well now that I have this new insight as well, I dont have to worry about adding anything to my soy blend, I'll just give it a special name, rofl!!! Thanks Ravens! I just love this site! Edited December 2, 2011 by cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 You're very welcome, Cary. Stick around, you're going to love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I already do! I have learned so much from this site. I made it my homepage even, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 "Frosted Candles" Ravens...There ya go. Now get your patent and you'll sell a gazillion of these "new type" candles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Ok, Jeanie, you're my witness. I'll get to work on that patent first thing in the morning. And down the road, IF you meet my stringent criteria, I will consider anointing your shop with my "Frosted Candles". You'll be the talk of the town.... and this forum!!:laugh2:And if you're really good, I will bless you with some enormous "scent mushrooms" in every candle. Ravens...There ya go. Now get your patent and you'll sell a gazillion of these "new type" candles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I will consider anointing your shop with my "Frosted Candles". And if you're really good, I will bless you with some enormous "scent mushrooms" in every candle. I am so thankful for the opportunity to have your Frosted Candles in my shop. I promise to be good so I also receive the Scent Mushrooms with each Frosted Candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 :laugh2:I am so thankful for the opportunity to have your Frosted Candles in my shop. I promise to be good so I also receive the Scent Mushrooms with each Frosted Candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleRon Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 lol.....Ravens the anointer, will bless your shop if you are a stringent shop owner...lol. Good job with the new invention Ravens...make a trillion gazillions. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Ron, if you behave, I just may agree to anoint your shop also; would you like that? Ok, ok, easy now, I can almost hear your heart thumping with excitement.... whoa, slow down, adrenaline! lol.....Ravens the anointer, will bless your shop if you are a stringent shop owner...lol. Good job with the new invention Ravens...make a trillion gazillions. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleRon Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Ron, if you behave, I just may agree to anoint your shop also; would you like that? Ok, ok, easy now, I can almost hear your heart thumping with excitement.... whoa, slow down, adrenaline! Too fast,,,when can you get here, I don't know how long it can beat like this....kinda scary....... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart70 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 You know how some slicks out there sell candles sprouting great mushrooms as "Scent mushroom", making it sound like it's a good thing (of course it is :rolleyes2)? Perhaps it is time for us (well, for chandlers who have issues with frosting) to sell our less-then-perfect-looking candles as "Frosted Candles".... now, why didn't we think of this sooner? That's it folks, the frosting is a plus! No mo' headaches!Don't Laugh!!This thread reminds of discussion I read in an Australian group not very long ago!. Apparently frosting, wet spots, mushrooms are all part of a 'natural' candle - Candles showing these characteristics are proof that the product is 'natural' and has not had additives used in manufacture to remove them.The surprising (perhaps concerning?) thing was the number of other candlemakers who commented that this is exactly what they explain to their customers as well.....I am still experimenting with Soy on a personal level and battling some of these problems.....I guess I should be proud that mine are 'natural' also....LOL :rolleyes2:cheesy2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Apparently frosting, wet spots, mushrooms are all part of a 'natural' candle - Candles showing these characteristics are proof that the product is 'natural' and has not had additives :wave:Ummm... not so sure about that theory they are talking about. Mushrooms and wet spots are showing up on my parasoy testing sometimes. They definitely are not "natural" and do have additives. I even put more in sometimes :tiptoe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 We're not talking about parasoy here, Jeanie. We are talking about soy and how to prevent frosting issues.Apparently frosting, wet spots, mushrooms are all part of a 'natural' candle - Candles showing these characteristics are proof that the product is 'natural' and has not had additives used in manufacture to remove them.The surprising (perhaps concerning?) thing was the number of other candlemakers who commented that this is exactly what they explain to their customers as well.....Yep - I've read that BS, too. It's a way of deflecting the customer from noticing that the candlemaker has not learned much about how to mitigate polymorphism, doesn't care or actually LIKES undesirable crystal phases in their soy wax. The "additives" we use to help with this process are veggie derived in case those dweebs don't know... That "natural" crap is just that absolute crap. There's reasonable environmentalism and ignorant greenwashing. Those folks need to study up on how their "natural" soy wax is made, then come back and talk about now freakin' "natural" it is... I don't consider separating oil from mash with hexane and then hydrogenating to be real natural, nor is all the energy used to effect that process very "sustainable"...Keep good records on your temperatures when you're pouring, Bart, and don't be afraid to use USA (veggie origin distilled monoglycerides) or other veggie oils to help control the frosting. Tempering helps. Know that certain FOs will frost no matter what you do, so avoid those. Some dyes promote frosting, so try others instead. It's a process of working on one aspect at a time until you get there. I learned by pouring candles with NO additives at all (FO, dye, USA, etc.). When I got some good results, then I started adding things one at a time until I found out which things were troublemakers in my wax and which were not. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) We're not talking about parasoy here, Jeanie. We are talking about soy and how to prevent frosting issues. Excuse me? Where the conversation moved to was natural candles showing frosting, mushrooms, and wet spots as proof of it being pure soy. Scroll back... I replied in reference that wet spots and mushrooms also show up in my un-natural parasoy thus not proof of a candle being natural soy as some candle maker claimed. Sorry Stella...I get you need to provide tons of scientific info. We were joking around...try it sometime. BTW...you are not a mod to dismiss me from any conversation. :wave:Ummm... not so sure about that theory they are talking about. Mushrooms and wet spots are showing up on my parasoy testing sometimes. They definitely are not "natural" and do have additives. I even put more in sometimes :tiptoe: Edited December 7, 2011 by jeanie353 spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart70 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Jeanie,I think that Stella was referring more to the people I referred to in my post and their views more than yourself....that was how I read it initially anyway.Stella - Have been playing a lot with temps and also dabbling with tempering. Am learning a lot about about the effects of temp (both pour and ambient). What frustrates me is when I pour 4 testers at the same temps and same batch get 2 perfect and 2 with frosting or wet spots!...LOL Frustrating but I will get there in the end. Am not using dyes of any sort at present so have one less influencial factor. I have perfected tops (at this stage) and reckon I may have cracked the frosting and wet spot code (will know in my next round of tests). Still battling with shrooms - does not matter what wick I use (even in candles without FO) I am getting shrooms. We are limited here in wick choice with basically CDN (Stabilo KST), HTP, and a local made wick known as ACS. Currently doing extensive testing with CDN with mixed results - sometimes I can test 2 identical candles and one will shroom and one wont. Frustrating! I am getting great HT though!..LOLWill keep plodding away....my dislike for soy is slowly starting to change the more I work with it and get to know it.Cheers,Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Jeanie,I think that Stella was referring more to the people I referred to in my post and their views more than yourself....that was how I read it initially anyway.Stella - Have been playing a lot with temps and also dabbling with tempering. Am learning a lot about about the effects of temp (both pour and ambient). What frustrates me is when I pour 4 testers at the same temps and same batch get 2 perfect and 2 with frosting or wet spots!...LOL Frustrating but I will get there in the end. Am not using dyes of any sort at present so have one less influencial factor. I have perfected tops (at this stage) and reckon I may have cracked the frosting and wet spot code (will know in my next round of tests). Still battling with shrooms - does not matter what wick I use (even in candles without FO) I am getting shrooms. We are limited here in wick choice with basically CDN (Stabilo KST), HTP, and a local made wick known as ACS. Currently doing extensive testing with CDN with mixed results - sometimes I can test 2 identical candles and one will shroom and one wont. Frustrating! I am getting great HT though!..LOLWill keep plodding away....my dislike for soy is slowly starting to change the more I work with it and get to know it.Cheers,BartBart...In the 2nd part of the post (under the bubble), Stella was referring to those people you mentioned IMO also. There is no denying (IMO) what she meant with her initial comment directed to me. It seems to be a "thing" tonight. Sorry you had to be brought in the middle of this. Hopefully this is where it ends. Back to the topic at hand and have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 This is a funny story....We are selling Christmas trees right now and I have some of my candles out for sale. I had one burning on the counter and a lady came over to smell it and looked at me so shocked and asked...."why doesnt your candle have a big ball on the end of the wick" and I asked her if she meant a mushroom and explained that I try my best to NOT have them and she proceeded to tell me the gal she buys her soy candles from told her....the bigger ball on the end of the wick the stronger the candle!! can you believe this??? I laughed so hard I was choking and told her the real truth about mushrooms and that I wished I had known it would be that easy to fool people into a sale of candle because I would of been rich by now with all my "duds" but.... I couldnt sleep at night doing that to people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Are we talking wet spots or bloom? According to one highly reputable company, bloom is proof you have a quality pure soy candle. Should the candle discolor and have a slightly sour smell to it as a result of being a pure soy quality creation? Just wondering.Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) Are we talking wet spots or bloom? According to one highly reputable company, bloom is proof you have a quality pure soy candle. Should the candle discolor and have a slightly sour smell to it as a result of being a pure soy quality creation?Steve, you're killin' me here!!:laugh2:Well, the post was about mitigating Frosting (bloom), but it's wandered a bit since I started it...WOW - "discolor" "slightly sour smell"? I guess I have been making impure, no quality soy creations!!! If a soy wax is discolored, smells or looks like old rancid Crisco, I was under the impression one should throw it out! What a FOOL I've been!! ROTFLMAOI really need to let my soy wax age to the point of rancidity and get back into the lab with it so I too can learn how to create pure soy "fragrance mushrooms," high-quality frosting and discolored candles too. :laugh2::laugh2:PS I do have a question - does the fragrance oil interfere with that pure, natural, slightly sour smell so highly prized in quality pure soy creations? I don't wanna mess this up... Edited December 17, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Pretty obvious marketing ploy, huh Stella? I was really disappointed that this company, which has always produced a great product would stoop to covering up an inferior product. The candles were so overpriced that they probably had been sitting on those shelves for a pretty long time. I didn't see anyone snapping up their product. Heck, couldn't even unscrew the lid off of one of em. I should have taken pics of these abominations but didn't have a camera handy. Keep up the good work Stella and turn out some more rancid product.Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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