ksranch Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Like I said, I had no intention of doing containers, until I found I had some J50 and thought 'what the heck?'. Sorry I did now because I absolutely love how it poured/adhesion/CT&HT - basically everything about it worked wonderfully. Except I don't like how it's burning, so I did some more studying on wicks and find that the expected melt pool diameter (according to charts) doesn't hit 3" in most cases, unless it's a huge one. So, question for the experts - (and yes, I did try to find by searching, but everything is about soy) when do you expect a FMP? Or do you? Perhaps I am being impatient? (I'd be very unhappy if this were a pillar due to the tunneling) Will it catch up and melt those sides if I just hang in there, or am I wasting time? My apologies ahead of time if I'm totally missing the obvious, perhaps should have stayed in comfort zone! :tiptoe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I work with both soy and paraffin and find that you do need different burn strategies. A full melt is easily achievable with soy and you can still maintain a container temp that won't burn your fingers. If I wick a paraffin container (IGI 4630) to do the same thing it gets way too hot. So I live with messy sides through the first half of the burn and then watch then clean up at the second half. If burning long enough, the paraffin will get a melt pool in this 2nd half. I keep backing off on the wicks with the paraffin, I currently have one burning that had a 1/4 or less of wax on the sides, waiting to see how it works with that 2nd half of the burn. For 4630 I am using LX and HTP wicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksranch Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Thank you - sounds like I am being too impatient then. I'll let this puppy burn a while longer then and see if it doesn't clean up the sides! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Well, this will teach you to ask opinions...LOLI found that when I worked with soy it tended to burn down, then out. A little tunnel that evened itself out. J50, however, should burn straight across. You won't get a full melt pool the first burn but it should be close. I thought HTP smoked too much, but did like LX. What jar, wick and FO are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksranch Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Georgia, I don't remember the name of the glass (new to containers) but I got it at LS - it's straight sided and 3" all the way. I started with a 51-31-18Z - that wasn't working - remelted and put in a 60-44-18Z. It's only about 1/4" from the sides all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksranch Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 So, end the end - it cleared up the stuff on sides and is fine. A little bit of "soot" on the top of the sides near the end, but from reading the forum it seems it won't matter to customers much even though I don't like it. so I guess all turned out fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricofAZ Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Sounds good to me. If you use the rule of thumb that the melt pool should progress on inch per hour, then you need 3 hours to get a 3 inch diameter pool. The problem with larger containers (like tureen jars) is that candle consumers want to smell the scent in about a half hour or so and that means a faster progressing melt pool. So I tend to try to get a wick that will create a FMP in under an hour while not causing overheating even on a power burn. Tough to do, but with all the wicks out there, the possibilities do exist. Soy seems to lend better to this process than paraffin, but paraffin works with more FO's than soy does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksranch Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Thanks EricofAZ - I'm sticking with pariffin and going to cave in and order some 4630 and try some containers. After all, if they sell better - I need to be flexible. Think I'll order some containers that are smaller diameter though - maybe 4oz jelly jars to start with. One question though - is the little bit of soot on the glass acceptable? I would think I would eliminate it with the jelly jars since they are shorter - but I have people wanting coffee cups with the hot chocolate/marshmellows and that little bit of soot bothered me.....Edit; Also (another question) seems to me like you would have less of this with straight sided jars, is that true? Cause I'm looking at some 8oz jars too and like the mason one compared to the jelly (straight), but if the top coming in like that will mean more soot I probably will opt for the jelly..... Edited November 8, 2011 by ksranch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Soot builds on the straight sided jars too. I test not only my product, but those of the competition to gauge my success and areas in need of refinement. Over the years I have accumulated both soy and paraffin candles from commercial and cottage producers that, when burned properly, accumulated thick black soot. I would never again purchase a candle from a vendor that made a candle that ended up looking like that. As a consumer I'm turned off by it. With proper time afforded to testing so much of that can be eliminated.Soot, as you have likely read a lot about, can be from a number of causes, not the least of which being wicks (size and type for your wax and container), fragrance (quantity and quality) and burning conditions. You will find lots of advice for people new to chandling here. My biggest piece is to choose ONE wax and ONE container size to perfect before branching out. With so many variables the chances of going crazy perfecting many when you're new to the craft are pretty high. These are the main variables I have found success isolating: Wax (type and brand ie. paraffin, soy, parasoy, palm, etc. along with the particular product like 4633, 4630, etc.), Wick (brands and sizing, and even the reselling vendor of the wick), candle Size (volume, depth and width), Container material (glass and metal are VERY different), Fragrance, and color. Certainly there are more variables, but these I can easily isolate and get lots of meaningful test data as I play. As with everything else, test test test then test some more. You'll read a lot about curing candles. Even paraffin candles burn differently at different times of the year. Burning the same candle in December versus July yields different results. There's plenty of advice here on this board for perfecting your candles and testing techniques. Focus like a rifle on one thing and you'll be able to branch off to others much more quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLeigh Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 but I have people wanting coffee cups with the hot chocolate/marshmellows and that little bit of soot bothered me.....QUOTE]A little off topic but that just sounds so darn CUTE!! Is there a certain type of coffee cup you should use? (very very new to all of this, but this is a cute idea to keep in mind for future gift giving once i get my bearings about me.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksranch Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Thanks TallTayl, I'm not new to making candles, only containers. I have my systems perfected in other areas and am now going to venture out to containers - which is obviously very different than pillars! I didn't have "thick black soot", but only a trace - which still bothered me. I was looking to see if the container experts would chime in on how much, if any, is "normal" or if it can be completely eliminated. I've placed an order for the wax I intend to use, and some 4oz jelly jars to start with, hopefully with enough testing I can come up with a system that I'm comfortable with. My first attempts discussed here were actually close (once I was patient enough for the sides to catch up), I just hate the soot! KLeigh - I'll wait to see what the experts say in answer to your question, but I picked up a couple of plain straight sided glass coffee mugs at the Dollar Tree and went through some pretty rough temp testing with it before I put wax in it - it held up fine, and I've seen numerous posts where glass items from there are used. But, whether they are actually approved for candlemaking, I doubt it. Edited November 8, 2011 by ksranch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 It doesn't take long to build up a small layer of soot and the cause may not be the candles fault; someone could open a window, turn on a ceiling fan or light the candle without wick trimming. The last part of a burn can be less efficient than the previous two thirds, so at the end the soot shows up. A black oily mess is not acceptable in either soy or paraffin but a little towards the end of a burn I accept for now. Further testing my even eliminate that. I'm test a 3" container now with 4630 and a HTP 104, first half of the burn was wonderful but at the halfway point the flame decided it didn't want to be vertical any more and started dancing all over the place and here comes the soot. No change in the candle location or air flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksranch Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 That's when my soot showed up too - last half when the flame was dancin a little.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I would try a different wick type before giving up on the jars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksranch Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 I would try a different wick type before giving up on the jars.Would it be safe to say try HTP or LX for pariffin? I've been researching/reading today and that's what I think I narrowed it down to for pariffin.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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