SmellinRite Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I am about to pull my hair out. I have been DESPERATELY trying to get a full melt pool with IGI 6006 in an 8 oz tin (9% FO). I have run the gamut of ECO's, LX's, HTP's, CD's and now I'm working with zincs. In the 8 oz tin with nothing but 6006, I was able to achieve a full melt pool within 3 hours ... beautiful. Throw some fragrance in there and I can't get a full melt pool to SAVE MY LIFE. Seriously, if it were a requirement, I'd be dead 10 times over by now. I've searched the forum, google, other forums and found suggestions and used them. I have to be doing something wrong. I start my test burn once the candle sets up (2-3 hours) ... could that be the issue?I have refrained from asking for help as long as I could. I REALLY wanted to wick a candle in this wax, just one, through trial and error; it's all an error. I started out with 464 and got that down fairly easy. I love 6006, but it doesn't love me. Thank you for any help in advance ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I am about to pull my hair out. I have been DESPERATELY trying to get a full melt pool with IGI 6006 in an 8 oz tin (9% FO). I have run the gamut of ECO's, LX's, HTP's, CD's and now I'm working with zincs. In the 8 oz tin with nothing but 6006, I was able to achieve a full melt pool within 3 hours ... beautiful. Throw some fragrance in there and I can't get a full melt pool to SAVE MY LIFE. Seriously, if it were a requirement, I'd be dead 10 times over by now. I've searched the forum, google, other forums and found suggestions and used them. I have to be doing something wrong. I start my test burn once the candle sets up (2-3 hours) ... could that be the issue?I have refrained from asking for help as long as I could. I REALLY wanted to wick a candle in this wax, just one, through trial and error; it's all an error. I started out with 464 and got that down fairly easy. I love 6006, but it doesn't love me. Thank you for any help in advance ...6006 is a parasoy, so you'll need to let it cure at least a week. hth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I no longer try to get a full melt pool with a container paraffin or parasoy wax, certainly not at the first 1/3 of the burn. So long as I am getting a good HT and the container can be held in my hand without burning me I don't worry. After the halfway point the side clean up as more heat is going into the glass and a FMP appears. Are you burning these tins to completion and do they show the above behaviour? Post some pictures of your burns throughout these testing, they may help us. When I tried 6006 in glass I had to over wick to get an melt pool like I get with soy. The results was soot and a way too hot container. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakbrookcandles Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Try a 44-32-18c that should be a good starting point. Is the wick drowning out? 9 what i mean is the flame staying a constant height) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 ok, now I see the question is about melt pool, not HT, lol. But is 2-3 hours too soon for a test burn regardless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmellinRite Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 I knew that there was a cure time for scent throw, but I did not realize that there was a week cure time to test for the general burn/melt pool. Good lawd! I am doing a test burn with the 8 oz tin right now with the last zinc that I haven't used yet, lol. It is about an hour in, I will take a picture @ 3 hour mark and post a picture. Honestly, I have not burned them to completion. I have been doing two 3 hours burns (I let the wax harden from the first and then light again). I always have a lot of hang up on the sides. Maybe I am just striving for a perfection that is not realistic. I may be basing my results on soy, which is what I started off with. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmellinRite Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 The flame stays consistent with the zincs, it burns really pretty ... no flickering and doesn't drown out. Just won't reach the edge. I am up to a 17 low smoke zinc now. Beth, I am thinking that I am not giving it enough time to set up properly and it may be contributing to the problem. I really don't know though. With soy I would give 24 hrs to set up prior to test burning. I thought with the parasoy that I could test sooner. I am probably way off base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 The flame stays consistent with the zincs, it burns really pretty ... no flickering and doesn't drown out. Just won't reach the edge. I am up to a 17 low smoke zinc now. Beth, I am thinking that I am not giving it enough time to set up properly and it may be contributing to the problem. I really don't know though. With soy I would give 24 hrs to set up prior to test burning. I thought with the parasoy that I could test sooner. I am probably way off base.Well, I should've stayed way out of this conversation to begin with, lol, as I'm too new to be of much help.... my brain was half functioning when I read your original post. I'm sure a 6006-veteran will pop in here and straighten us both out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Beth, I am thinking that I am not giving it enough time to set up properly and it may be contributing to the problem. I really don't know though. With soy I would give 24 hrs to set up prior to test burning. I thought with the parasoy that I could test sooner. I am probably way off base.If you are just testing wick I guess a 24-post pour burn is ok but if you want good HT info the dogma is to wait longer, minimum of 48 hours and closer to a week. IGI 6006 is mostly paraffin so I don't know how critical the curing time would be but burning a candle less than 24 hours after pouring sounds too soon even for paraffin. That said, it probably depends on the volume of the candle. A votive-sized candle will cool faster that an 8 oz or 16 oz one. The center of those candles could sill be warm in times of less than 24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) The flame stays consistent with the zincs, it burns really pretty ... no flickering and doesn't drown out. Just won't reach the edge. I am up to a 17 low smoke zinc now. Beth, I am thinking that I am not giving it enough time to set up properly and it may be contributing to the problem. I really don't know though. With soy I would give 24 hrs to set up prior to test burning. I thought with the parasoy that I could test sooner. I am probably way off base.You probably just need a bigger wick. I used the 62 zincs in my 8 oz tureens with 6006 and 12% CS FOs. They would get a full melt pool and then tunnel all the way down to the bottom and then clean the sides. I used the 51 zincs in the jelly jars. I looked at the low smoke zinc wick chart, and I think the 17 seems a lil bit small because 6006 seems very viscous. Edited November 1, 2011 by HorsescentS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmellinRite Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 I researched it again and came up with some guidelines for curing time, guess I wasn't holding my mouth right the first time around. I am pretty convinced that I am not allowing enough time which is just contributing to the problem. Suggestions ranged from 3 days to a week. Gaw ... I have no patience. Horsescents, thank you for the suggestions, I will give them a shot. I am only 30 minutes from CS and every time I go to the warehouse, I fall in love. It smells so amazing in there. The first time I went I thought that it would probably be nauseating with all the different scents, but it isn't at all. Plus, they are the NICEST PEOPLE ever. Random I know ...Instead of sitting down in the middle of my kitchen floor crying and doing my best Meryl Streep impression, I revisited my GB 464 candles that I gave up on because of the HT; I've got about 40+ of those now collecting dust. I am amazed at the CT and HT four weeks later. The black raspberry vanilla is AWESOME! I made that one with a 9% load and 3% CO. The curing time did make all the difference in the world. Patience has never been one of my virtues and I'm learning rather quickly that it is a must in candle making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Horsescents, thank you for the suggestions, I will give them a shot. I am only 30 minutes from CS and every time I go to the warehouse, I fall in love. It smells so amazing in there. The first time I went I thought that it would probably be nauseating with all the different scents, but it isn't at all. Plus, they are the NICEST PEOPLE ever. You are soooo very fortunate to live so close to CS! Wow! You've got it made in the shade! Edited November 1, 2011 by HorsescentS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I no longer try to get a full melt pool with a container paraffin or parasoy wax, certainly not at the first 1/3 of the burn. So long as I am getting a good HT and the container can be held in my hand without burning me I don't worry. After the halfway point the side clean up as more heat is going into the glass and a FMP appears. Are you burning these tins to completion and do they show the above behaviour? Post some pictures of your burns throughout these testing, they may help us. When I tried 6006 in glass I had to over wick to get an melt pool like I get with soy. The results was soot and a way too hot container.I second that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Too much fo load. Take 15% of your 464 and mix it with 85% of your 6006. This will give you a rough 50-50 mix which should burn just fine. Pour at about 185 degrees into room temp jars and wick with a cd 10 and go up. You should get great adhesion and good ct/ht but be aware that the adhesion has a tendency to let go after awhile and will lose its grip after a couple of burns. Forget curing for a week but obviously the longer the candle sits the better. You should be able to get what you need with a 6% fo load or even 7% but wouldn't go higher than that. Too expensive for no diff in results with good fos. IMHOSteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Too much fo load. Take 15% of your 464 and mix it with 85% of your 6006. This will give you a rough 50-50 mix which should burn just fine. Pour at about 185 degrees into room temp jars and wick with a cd 10 and go up. You should get great adhesion and good ct/ht but be aware that the adhesion has a tendency to let go after awhile and will lose its grip after a couple of burns. Forget curing for a week but obviously the longer the candle sits the better. You should be able to get what you need with a 6% fo load or even 7% but wouldn't go higher than that. Too expensive for no diff in results with good fos. IMHOSteveI respectfully disagree about the FO load. I think it's an individual preference. I've made candles with 6006 at 6%, 9%, and 12% CS FOs, and I could barely smell the 6% ones, wasn't satisfied with the 9% ones, and I LOVE the 12% ones, which are very strong and burn beautifully, with minimal mushrooms and no smoke, using 62 zincs. If I was making them for sale, I would have to charge more for the extra FO. But 100% of the people I talk to tell me they are always disappointed with the scent throw of all candles and want them stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwantItgreen Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 What size of ECO's did you already try? I use a 6006/soy blend and use ECO's 6 - 10 in 3" diameter jar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugtussle Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 All that is important in full melt pool is bottom 1/3 of tin. My guess is that the candle will catch up. Pls remember that a tin overwicked can catch fire! 6006 is a very good wax and has excellent hot throw. Add a little extra soy to slow it down. Bug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I respectfully disagree about the FO load. I think it's an individual preference. I've made candles with 6006 at 6%, 9%, and 12% CS FOs, and I could barely smell the 6% ones, wasn't satisfied with the 9% ones, and I LOVE the 12% ones, which are very strong and burn beautifully, with minimal mushrooms and no smoke, using 62 zincs. If I was making them for sale, I would have to charge more for the extra FO. But 100% of the people I talk to tell me they are always disappointed with the scent throw of all candles and want them stronger.I've been selling candles for over 6 years now and rarely use more than 7% load. Some fos (Candle Coccoon) you have to reduce the load or they would just overpower the entire block. I guess my customer base doesn't go for burnt nose hairs, so it gets down to personal preference and the bottom line IMHO. I may pay a little more for a really good fo but it pays me back in the long run.Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Patience has never been one of my virtues and I'm learning rather quickly that it is a must in candle making. That will prepare you for soapmaking where you have to wait a minimum of a month!!! Candles seem to be ready so QUICKLY since I started soaping LOLOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I've been selling candles for over 6 years now and rarely use more than 7% load. Some fos (Candle Coccoon) you have to reduce the load or they would just overpower the entire block. I guess my customer base doesn't go for burnt nose hairs, so it gets down to personal preference and the bottom line IMHO. I may pay a little more for a really good fo but it pays me back in the long run.SteveI agree, it's personal preference. Some on here, who have been selling for many years also, use more than 7%. My candles were made from FOs with the strongest Candle Science rating of 3 leafs. If Candle Coccoon FOs are stronger, I'll be happy to buy them. I'm getting ready to try Peaks, and they're supposed to be really strong, so I'm interested to see if they're stronger than CS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksranch Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I'm getting ready to try Peaks, and they're supposed to be really strong, so I'm interested to see if they're stronger than CS.It's been my experience that they are. With all the suppliers I use I go 1oz pp - except Peaks - almost all of theirs I use less, unless it's something I'm making for me - because I like it really strong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) It's been my experience that they are. With all the suppliers I use I go 1oz pp - except Peaks - almost all of theirs I use less, unless it's something I'm making for me - because I like it really strong! Thank you! I'm so excited about trying Peaks! I've got my list and counting it twice! Ho ho ho santalol Edited November 4, 2011 by HorsescentS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmellinRite Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 You are soooo very fortunate to live so close to CS! Wow! You've got it made in the shade! I am! They are soooo incredibly nice and helpful. I feel blessed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmellinRite Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 rjdaines: I think you are 100% correct. I have a batch that I have made with the 6006 that I am doing doing another test with; didn't care for the HTP wicks in this wax. I will be able to burn these tomorrow after 12. Trying out the cd's that I tried previously, but doing it with a 24+ cure time. You are right about the melt pool too. Heather from CS told me that with her own personal experiance with 6006, you need to add an hour onto the first burn for a complete melt pool. I burned a candle with an LX 22 wick, it cleaned the sides beautifully altough I think it was a little too hot. A 20 would probably be perfect, but of course I am out of those. Iwantitgreen: I used an ECO 6, 8 and 10. I am sure my results would have been much different if I would have waited for the candles to set up.bugtussle: I LOVE this wax. I don't know why, but I do. Stella: It is sooo funny you said that because I was thinking the other day that I would never make it as a soap maker for that very reason! Horsescents: If I don't have any sucess with the CD's, I will give the zincs another shot. chuck_35550: If I continue having problems, I will bring down the FO and see if that helps. Thank you to everyone who contributing to this thread. I have barely been on the comp this past week ... sick, but still making candles! So I've got two candles setting up with a CD 12 & a CD 14. Cross your fingers for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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